I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time
- what sort of bulbs?

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

George

On 20/09/17 11:37, DICEGEORGE wrote:
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time
- what sort of bulbs?

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

George

Probably not. Ift its LEDS you could try wiring a 400VAC capacitor in
series to limit LED current.


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

DICEGEORGE wrote:

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

Likely to vary on anything not incandescent ...

it could just carry on at full brightness if the internal Rs and Cs
allow it to pull enough current during the half wave that remains

or they might become horribly flickery

or you might end up overheating two out of the four diodes in the lamp's
bridge rectifier if they're run close to max

Andy Burns wrote in news:f2f0adFhnm4U1
@mid.individual.net:

DICEGEORGE wrote:

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

Likely to vary on anything not incandescent ...

it could just carry on at full brightness if the internal Rs and Cs
allow it to pull enough current during the half wave that remains

or they might become horribly flickery

or you might end up overheating two out of the four diodes in the lamp's
bridge rectifier if they're run close to max



Why not have a 2 gang switch where one is on/off and the other gang selects
a full brightness fitting and the other gang feeds some sort of minimal
brightness luminaire?

Why not have a 2 gang switch where one is on/off and the other gang
selects a full brightness fitting and the other gang feeds some sort
of minimal brightness luminaire?


Sorry - I mean the other gang to be two-way (as it will be) where one
"Way" feeds full brightness and other "way" feeds minimal brightness. It
feels a more conventional approach - rather than messing about with
fittings.

On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 11:37:09 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time


Why do you need dim lights for night time? Either the corridor needs to be lit, or it doesn't. ("Corridor" suggests non-domestic premises; if you need a nightlight in a house for nocturnal bathroom visits that's different.)

Either have the lights running 24/7 (a 4 watt LED will only cost about £4 a year to run) or have PIR with a long dwell time so the lights are usually on when people are about.

Owain

yes Derbyborn,
a second switch to some sort of minimal brightness luminaire,
but what sort are suitable for in a house?

Spuorg it is for upstairs in my house leading to toilets when i have guests
[george]

DICEGEORGE wrote in
:

yes Derbyborn,
a second switch to some sort of minimal brightness luminaire,
but what sort are suitable for in a house?

Spuorg it is for upstairs in my house leading to toilets when i have
guests [george]




Look around for a low Lumen lamp - in a luminaire in which you can parhaps
mask some of the light to get what you need.

On 20/09/2017 13:49, wrote:
On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 11:37:09 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time


Why do you need dim lights for night time? Either the corridor needs to be lit, or it doesn't. ("Corridor" suggests non-domestic premises; if you need a nightlight in a house for nocturnal bathroom visits that's different.)

Either have the lights running 24/7 (a 4 watt LED will only cost about £4 a year to run) or have PIR with a long dwell time so the lights are usually on when people are about.

A nightlight for a nocturnal bathroom visit don't even require anything
like 4W. I have an emergency light in my hallway with a green LED to
indicate the light is operational/charging. This is sufficiently bright
enough to navigate by when everything else is pitch black.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 11:37:09 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time

of course

- what sort of bulbs?

LED come in any power you like. CFL are available down to 3w, ok as nightlighting for a large area

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

No. There are 2 ways to do this
1. Wire your 0.5W LED across the switch terminals so it lights whenever the main light is off
2. Put it on its own switching & wiring.


NT

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:11:21 +0100, alan_m wrote:

On 20/09/2017 13:49, wrote:
On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 11:37:09 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time


Why do you need dim lights for night time? Either the corridor needs to
be lit, or it doesn't. ("Corridor" suggests non-domestic premises; if
you need a nightlight in a house for nocturnal bathroom visits that's
different.)

Either have the lights running 24/7 (a 4 watt LED will only cost about
£4 a year to run) or have PIR with a long dwell time so the lights are
usually on when people are about.

A nightlight for a nocturnal bathroom visit don't even require anything
like 4W. I have an emergency light in my hallway with a green LED to
indicate the light is operational/charging. This is sufficiently bright
enough to navigate by when everything else is pitch black.

Our landing has one of those green neon borders on the light switch. And
two mains powered smoke alarms with green LEDs. Positively dazzling!


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Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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I hate to think what it would do to any kind of power supply in a light.
Also, this kind of tthing can create a lot of RF interference on 'odd'
loads. As you say it sort of works with ordinary bulbs, and in the past I've
also wired them in series to give a similar effect two at a time.
Brian

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"DICEGEORGE" wrote in message
...
I'm rewiring corridor lights,
it will have pendants with LEDs or fluorescent bulbs.
But could i also add dim lights for night time
- what sort of bulbs?

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

George

In message ,
DICEGEORGE writes

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

Could you not keep life simple and use a plug in LED night light? We
have a couple, and they just work.
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

In message ,
DICEGEORGE writes

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

Could you not keep life simple and use a plug in LED night light? We
have a couple, and they just work.

Some of them even have a PIR, so only come on when needed.

Working out the payback time of the extra cost, against power
saved, is left as an exercise for the student.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
Graeme wrote:

Could you not keep life simple and use a plug in LED night light? We
have a couple, and they just work.

Some of them even have a PIR, so only come on when needed.

Yes, ours does.

Working out the payback time of the extra cost, against power
saved, is left as an exercise for the student.

Uh oh. OK, assume 8 hours per night, 365 nights, is 2,920 hours p.a.

A standard 60w bulb will burn 160 kWh, so cost, at 12p per kWh, is
£19.20 per annum. An LED night light burns 0.5w, so 1/120th the cost,
or 16 pence - is that right???

LED night lights are around a fiver to buy.

--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

An LED night light burns 0.5w, so 1/120th the cost,
or 16 pence - is that right???

A rule of thumb is £1/year per watt that's on 24x7, it's probably
slightly under given price rises in recent years.

So a 0.5W light would be 50p/year if left on 24h/day, so 16p for 8h/day
is about right.

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 05:58:28 -0700 (PDT), DICEGEORGE wrote:

yes Derbyborn,
a second switch to some sort of minimal brightness luminaire,
but what sort are suitable for in a house?

Spuorg it is for upstairs in my house leading to toilets when i have guests
[george]

Try looking on the usual sites for 2W 'vintage' or similar LED lamps. Tend
to be 'filament' (COB) and about 2000K, so not glaringly bright at night.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:36:57 UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Graeme wrote:

In message ,
DICEGEORGE writes

Decades ago I hotwired a diode across a switch
which cut out half the AC signal when switched off,
would this work with modern lights?

Could you not keep life simple and use a plug in LED night light? We
have a couple, and they just work.

Some of them even have a PIR, so only come on when needed.

yes I have two, had three, but one burnt out.


Working out the payback time of the extra cost, against power
saved, is left as an exercise for the student.

for me that was irrelivant as I didn't get them to save money.
I got them so when getting up in the night I could go to the toilet without needing to put lights on which I found far too bright for what I needed just to go to the loo. i.e I didn't need 3 X 40w spot lights in the bathroom just to have a ****. I also didnl;t need the hallway light up either.
Havign them with a PIR also meant even in the dark I didn't have to find the switch and then cover my eyes because it was too bright.

excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

A double lightswitch with a neon in it from one of the switches would be good - is it legal to drill a neon into a lightswitch,
what sort would be good for this?

It would probably be necessary to take a blue neutral to the switch for this wouldnt it?

[george]

DICEGEORGE wrote:

A double lightswitch with a neon in it from one of the switches
would be good - is it legal to drill a neon into a lightswitch,

Probably easier to use a three position grid plate with two switches and
one neon indicator, not really sure if it'd be bright enough though,
they also do filament and fluorescent indicators.

It would probably be necessary to take a blue neutral to the switch for this wouldnt it?

Well it would save you from being naughty and using earth as the
not-live side of the neon.

On 21/09/2017 17:38, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

Use red lights if you want to retain your night vision, like on submarines.

--
Max Demian

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 17:58:45 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
A double lightswitch with a neon in it from one of the switches would be good - is it legal to drill a neon into a lightswitch,
what sort would be good for this?

It would probably be necessary to take a blue neutral to the switch for this wouldnt it?

[george]

It's against the Lightswitch Drilling Act 1907.
You'd want more than 1 neon indicator for night lighting. And putting them at the base of a ceiling light would be better than the light switch.


NT

"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 21/09/2017 17:38, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when
going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some
trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

Use red lights if you want to retain your night vision, like on
submarines.

Interesting idea. With the fancy Philips Hue leds that do all the colors of
the
spectrum and all the color temp whites too, it would be trivial to do that.

And you dont need to fart around with any switches either,
just tell siri to do that 'scene' or use a movement sensor
which can be programmed to do that when you get up
in the middle of the night for a ****, but has normal light
when you are reading in bed etc.

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:58:40 -0700, DICEGEORGE wrote:

A double lightswitch with a neon in it from one of the switches would be
good - is it legal to drill a neon into a lightswitch,
what sort would be good for this?

It would probably be necessary to take a blue neutral to the switch for
this wouldnt it?

I have these:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3041.html

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My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

The LSD act of 1907 ?
An 'alternative fact'?
[g]
It's against the Lightswitch Drilling Act 1907.
You'd want more than 1 neon indicator for night lighting. And putting them at the base of a ceiling light would be better than the light switch.


NT

thanks Bob,
http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd
MK Neon Locator
its goes between a light switch and the wall
and takes a crumb of elec from earth and live,
not enough to trip the RCDs I hope if I have 20 of them?
[george]

DICEGEORGE wrote:

http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd
MK Neon Locator
its goes between a light switch and the wall
and takes a crumb of elec from earth and live,
not enough to trip the RCDs I hope if I have 20 of them?

I assume from the "TUNGSTEN GLS LAMPS ONLY" you're supposed to wire the
neons across the switch, rather than live to earth, so they only glow
when the light is off ...

but a reviewer of this white neon locator from MK is says:
"˜…˜…˜…˜…˜…
4 out of 5 stars.
Anonymous · 2 years ago
Beware however that it is not suitable for use with low energy florescent type light bulbs although works ok with normal florescent tube type fittings.
" http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd

Is this true?
Why?
Will they work with LED bulbs?

[george]

DICEGEORGE wrote:

a reviewer of this white neon locator from MK is says:
Beware however that it is not suitable for use with low energy florescent type light bulbs
Is this true?
Why?

It relies on being able to treat the lamp's filament as a path to
neutral to light the neons

Will they work with LED bulbs?

Might make the LED give a little flash every so often.

DICEGEORGE wrote:

it is for upstairs in my house leading to toilets

Go for the big clive option

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/motion-sensor/32720283675.html

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:09:39 -0700, DICEGEORGE wrote:

thanks Bob, http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd
MK Neon Locator its goes between a light switch and the wall and takes a
crumb of elec from earth and live,
not enough to trip the RCDs I hope if I have 20 of them? [george]

No, it uses the filament of the bulb as a path.

They are connected to CFLs, and they still work.

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On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:12:59 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

DICEGEORGE wrote:

http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd MK Neon
Locator its goes between a light switch and the wall and takes a crumb
of elec from earth and live,
not enough to trip the RCDs I hope if I have 20 of them?

I assume from the "TUNGSTEN GLS LAMPS ONLY" you're supposed to wire the
neons across the switch, rather than live to earth, so they only glow
when the light is off ...

That's right. They work OK with the CFLs I have, and I think one of them
with an LED bulb!



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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 21/09/2017 21:51, Andy Burns wrote:
DICEGEORGE wrote:

it is for upstairs in my house leading to toilets

Go for the big clive option

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/motion-sensor/32720283675.html

Priced at £3 on Ebay!

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 21:27:23 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
but a reviewer of this white neon locator from MK is says:
"˜…˜…˜…˜…˜…
4 out of 5 stars.
Anonymous · 2 years ago
Beware however that it is not suitable for use with low energy florescent type light bulbs although works ok with normal florescent tube type fittings.
" http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd

Is this true?
Why?
Will they work with LED bulbs?

[george]

With some LED lights you can simply put an RC snubber across the switch & the LED glows dimly when nominally off.


NT

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 21:09:44 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
thanks Bob,
http://www.diy.com/departments/mk-ne...r/53970_BQ.prd
MK Neon Locator
its goes between a light switch and the wall
and takes a crumb of elec from earth and live,
not enough to trip the RCDs I hope if I have 20 of them?
[george]

20 of them would likely trip an RCD.


NT

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 17:38:21 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

I know thre's plenty of info on such things although some on here just don't understand the differncies, most LEDs or rather the PSU driving the LED work better with trailing edge circuitry and most seem to use MOSFET rather than TRIACs. Using leading edge with traics gets more power disipated in other componets such as the diac and other componets and they 'blow' up which means replacing a working TRIAC with the same type won't change anything.

On Thursday, 21 September 2017 18:21:46 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 21/09/2017 17:38, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

Use red lights if you want to retain your night vision, like on submarines.

Trouble is getting up in the night to have a **** and having to change the light buld from a 'normal' one to a red one is a bit of a pain.

On Friday, 22 September 2017 10:22:41 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 21 September 2017 17:38:21 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

I know thre's plenty of info on such things although some on here just don't understand the differncies, most LEDs or rather the PSU driving the LED work better with trailing edge circuitry and most seem to use MOSFET rather than TRIACs. Using leading edge with traics gets more power disipated in other componets such as the diac and other componets and they 'blow' up which means replacing a working TRIAC with the same type won't change anything..

Shaking head.

On Friday, 22 September 2017 12:52:07 UTC+1, wrote:
On Friday, 22 September 2017 10:22:41 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 21 September 2017 17:38:21 UTC+1, DICEGEORGE wrote:
excellent point whisky-dave,
i hadnt thought of that advantage of dim lights:
not to get dazzled and losing nightsight in the middle of the night when going for a ****.
I'm researching dimmers, different LEDs are incompatible with some trailing edge dimmers because LEDs are not regulated, it seems.
[g]

I know thre's plenty of info on such things although some on here just don't understand the differncies, most LEDs or rather the PSU driving the LED work better with trailing edge circuitry and most seem to use MOSFET rather than TRIACs. Using leading edge with traics gets more power disipated in other componets such as the diac and other componets and they 'blow' up which means replacing a working TRIAC with the same type won't change anything.

Shaking head.

Shakin' steven
Talking heads

but there's info on LEDs here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWh2...ature=youtu.be

Might be a bit complex for you .