Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in, just
getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall light and
the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single switch which
operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch on the
light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are upstairs you
switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light no need for the
light, so you go on your way untill the evening when you are ready for bed
you go to switch the light on and it doesn't work because you didn't switch
it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no matter what
position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally confused!!!!
Can some one help or direct me to a website that describes the correct
wiring ?



www.A1PoolandLeisure.co.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bodysnatcher wrote:

Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in,
just getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall
light and the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single
switch which operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch
on the light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are
upstairs you switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light
no need for the light, so you go on your way untill the evening when
you are ready for bed you go to switch the light on and it doesn't
work because you didn't switch it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no
matter what position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally
confused!!!! Can some one help or direct me to a website that
describes the correct wiring ?


Your up and down switches both need to be 2-way switches (with *three*
terminals each, usually labelled L1, L2 and Com) *and* they need to be
correctly wired to allow 2-way operation. Then, the light can be switched on
or off at *either* switch at any time, regardless of the state of the other
switch.

The FAQ at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical.html#two-way shows one way of
doing it - but it isn't the only way - and the best way depends on what you
have already got. My preferred way would be as follows:

* Live feed to Common terminal of downstairs switch
* Light (live) connected to Common terminal of upstairs switch
* [Light N & E connected as currently]
* 2-core cable between the switches, connecting L1 of downstairs switch to
L1 of upstairs switch, and similarly, L2 to L2.

If you draw it out in a diagram, it's easy to understand. There are 2
alternative paths for the current flow between switches. Two switches have 4
on/off permutations, 2 of which complete the circuit (Light on) and two of
which don't (Light off).
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Thanks Set square.
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.
Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)
1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom, 2nd Cable - black to top Com.
Cheers for advice/help in advance.
"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bodysnatcher wrote:

Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in,
just getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall
light and the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single
switch which operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch
on the light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are
upstairs you switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light
no need for the light, so you go on your way untill the evening when
you are ready for bed you go to switch the light on and it doesn't
work because you didn't switch it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no
matter what position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally
confused!!!! Can some one help or direct me to a website that
describes the correct wiring ?


Your up and down switches both need to be 2-way switches (with *three*
terminals each, usually labelled L1, L2 and Com) *and* they need to be
correctly wired to allow 2-way operation. Then, the light can be switched
on
or off at *either* switch at any time, regardless of the state of the
other
switch.

The FAQ at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical.html#two-way shows one way
of
doing it - but it isn't the only way - and the best way depends on what
you
have already got. My preferred way would be as follows:

* Live feed to Common terminal of downstairs switch
* Light (live) connected to Common terminal of upstairs switch
* [Light N & E connected as currently]
* 2-core cable between the switches, connecting L1 of downstairs switch to
L1 of upstairs switch, and similarly, L2 to L2.

If you draw it out in a diagram, it's easy to understand. There are 2
alternative paths for the current flow between switches. Two switches have
4
on/off permutations, 2 of which complete the circuit (Light on) and two of
which don't (Light off).
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

I think the problem is I haven't got enough cores!
"Bodysnatcher" wrote in message
...
Thanks Set square.
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.
Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)
1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom, 2nd Cable - black to top Com.
Cheers for advice/help in advance.
"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bodysnatcher wrote:

Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in,
just getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall
light and the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single
switch which operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch
on the light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are
upstairs you switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light
no need for the light, so you go on your way untill the evening when
you are ready for bed you go to switch the light on and it doesn't
work because you didn't switch it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no
matter what position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally
confused!!!! Can some one help or direct me to a website that
describes the correct wiring ?


Your up and down switches both need to be 2-way switches (with *three*
terminals each, usually labelled L1, L2 and Com) *and* they need to be
correctly wired to allow 2-way operation. Then, the light can be
switched
on
or off at *either* switch at any time, regardless of the state of the
other
switch.

The FAQ at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical.html#two-way shows one
way
of
doing it - but it isn't the only way - and the best way depends on what
you
have already got. My preferred way would be as follows:

* Live feed to Common terminal of downstairs switch
* Light (live) connected to Common terminal of upstairs switch
* [Light N & E connected as currently]
* 2-core cable between the switches, connecting L1 of downstairs switch
to
L1 of upstairs switch, and similarly, L2 to L2.

If you draw it out in a diagram, it's easy to understand. There are 2
alternative paths for the current flow between switches. Two switches
have
4
on/off permutations, 2 of which complete the circuit (Light on) and two
of
which don't (Light off).
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article ,
Bodysnatcher wrote:
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.
Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)
1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom, 2nd Cable - black to top Com.

The top switch isn't wired as a two way - you need three wires for this.

What you do have is strange - it's not normal to have any wires lopped of
anywhere.

I've included the standard diagram for two way (or more) switching.



L1 L1
0===========0 0===========0============= Line
| \ / |
C 0================================O C
\ / \ /
0===========0 0===========0============= Switch return
L2 Optional L2
Intermediate

--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bodysnatcher wrote:
Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in, just
getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall light
and the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single switch
which operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch on
the light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are
upstairs you switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light no
need for the light, so you go on your way untill the evening when you are
ready for bed you go to switch the light on and it doesn't work because
you didn't switch it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no matter
what position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally confused!!!!
Can some one help or direct me to a website that describes the correct
wiring ?

Snap! Identical situation in our house when we moved in a couple of years
ago. Turned out that a couple of wires were transposed in the downstairs
switch - maybe someone took the switch plate right off when decorating, and
made a pig's ear of reconnecting it.

No doubt you will have already received enough info to help you figure it
out. Good luck!

Rick

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:57:42 +0000 (UTC), "Bodysnatcher"
strung together this:

Thanks Set square.
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.

Sounds ok that end.

Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)

That's your problem.

1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom,

The black cable on this one should be going to the 2-way terminal.

2nd Cable - black to top Com.

That's the cable taking the switched feed up to the light.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

Thanks Lurch.
What can i do about this problem?
"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:57:42 +0000 (UTC), "Bodysnatcher"
strung together this:

Thanks Set square.
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and
red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.

Sounds ok that end.

Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)

That's your problem.

1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom,

The black cable on this one should be going to the 2-way terminal.

2nd Cable - black to top Com.

That's the cable taking the switched feed up to the light.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 05:36:37 +0000 (UTC), "Bodysnatcher"
strung together this:

Thanks Lurch.
What can i do about this problem?

Depends where it's snapped off, if there is enough in the switch you
could just extend the wire using a butt crimp ideally, if you don't
have the tools a choc-block type connector would suffice.
If the cable is snapped of too short to extend it in the box then
you'll need to either try and find a few inches of slack and pull it
into the box or junction box it under the floor with a new piece into
the box.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:21:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
strung together this:

In article ,
Bodysnatcher wrote:
What I have already is:
Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal top, and red
to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal bottom and red to 1-way
terminal bottom. And a link wire from Com top to Com bottom.
Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core of each cable not used (snapped off)
1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom, 2nd Cable - black to top Com.

The top switch isn't wired as a two way - you need three wires for this.

What you do have is strange - it's not normal to have any wires lopped of
anywhere.

I've included the standard diagram for two way (or more) switching.

From what he says it should be wired like this, but for some reason on
of the strappers, (links between L1 and L1 and L2 and L2), has been
cut off.

Downstairs switch Upstairs switch

Perm L 0--------------------0 Switched L
----------------0 L1 L1 0----------
Com L2 L2 Com
0--------------------0

--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

* Live feed to Common terminal of downstairs switch
* Light (live) connected to Common terminal of upstairs switch

However, such a method is deprecated as it leads to an induction loop being
formed, which can interfere with audio equipment, especially hearing aids
set to 'Loop' mode.

It is permissible to use the same system provided that the permanent live
and switched feeds are made to one switch. Then 3 core (and earth) cable is
used to link the two switches, taking one of the feeds through to the end
switch down the extra core.

i.e.

(Good)

L SL
| |
| | - 2 core + E
| |
| |
| | o----------------o
| +---o-- --o----+
| o----------------o |
+-------------------------------+
^
|
3 core + E

(Bad, due to induction loop)

L SL ---------------------------+
| |
| - single core |
| single core - |
| |
| o----------------o |
+-----o-- --o----+
o----------------o
^
|
2 core + E

The circuit is the same electrically. However, the routing of cables using 2
or 3 core + E cable and no looping eliminates the induction loop issue. The
use of multicore cable is strongly recommended. However, as an alternative,
if singles are used, they must go by the same route and through the same
piece of conduit.

Christian.

"Bodysnatcher" wrote
| Hall switch : 2 x 2 core. 1st Cable - black to 2-way terminal
| top, and red to Com top. 2nd Cable - black to 2-way terminal
| bottom and red to 1-way terminal bottom. And a link wire from
| Com top to Com bottom. Landing light ; 2 x 2 core. One core
| of each cable not used (snapped off)
| 1st Cable - red to 1-way terminal bottom, 2nd Cable - black
| to top Com.

I think you're confused by the way the terminals are appearing on the
switch. They almost certainly aren't 'top' and 'bottom' like so:


COM L1 L2
| | |
|------| |
| |
|-----------|

|-----------|
| |
| |----|
| | |
L2 L1 COM


but are more likely 'left' and 'right', with alternate switches being
'upside down':

COM L1 L2
/\ \ /
/ \ \ /
/ \ \/
L2 L1 COM


Owain

Thanks for all the help.
To put it simpler, if i do not have a 3-core cable running from one light
switch to the other then what i would like to happen, can not be done?

"Richard Sterry" wrote in message
...
Bodysnatcher wrote:
Hi All.
Had this annoying problem with our landing light sice we moved in, just
getting round to trying to sort it out, (only ten years!)
In our hall with have a double wall switch that operates the hall light
and the landing light up the stairs. Upstairs there is a single switch
which operates the landing light.
Now unless the upstairs switch is switched on, when you go to switch on
the light from downstairs it doesn't work! Problem is once you are
upstairs you switch it off at night, in the morning when it's light no
need for the light, so you go on your way untill the evening when you
are
ready for bed you go to switch the light on and it doesn't work because
you didn't switch it on the night before/morning.
If wired correctly surely it should be switched on downstairs no matter
what position the switch upstairs is at?
Hope this is clear, if so please explain to me as i'm totally
confused!!!!
Can some one help or direct me to a website that describes the correct
wiring ?

Snap! Identical situation in our house when we moved in a couple of years
ago. Turned out that a couple of wires were transposed in the downstairs
switch - maybe someone took the switch plate right off when decorating,
and
made a pig's ear of reconnecting it.

No doubt you will have already received enough info to help you figure it
out. Good luck!

Rick

In article ,
Bodysnatcher wrote:
To put it simpler, if i do not have a 3-core cable running from one light
switch to the other then what i would like to happen, can not be done?

It's possible with two by feeding the power in at one switch and out at
the other.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

So how is it done? In simple terms please.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bodysnatcher wrote:
To put it simpler, if i do not have a 3-core cable running from one
light
switch to the other then what i would like to happen, can not be done?

It's possible with two by feeding the power in at one switch and out at
the other.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:27:18 +0000 (UTC), "Bodysnatcher"
strung together this:

Thanks for all the help.
To put it simpler, if i do not have a 3-core cable running from one light
switch to the other then what i would like to happen, can not be done?

Yes, do what I said in my other post. The more common method of wiring
a two way circuit is to run a twin and earth to one switch from the
light fitting then run a three core and earth between the two
switches.
The way yours is wired is to run a permenant feed into one switch then
run a twin and earth between the two switches and take the switched
feed from the second switch.
The wiring you have works, in theory, it's just that one of the cables
has snapped off.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

In article ,
Bodysnatcher wrote:

To put it simpler, if i do not have a 3-core cable running from one
light switch to the other then what i would like to happen, can not
be done?

It's possible with two by feeding the power in at one switch and out at
the other.

So how is it done? In simple terms please.

Could I ask why? Because it's unlikely you have the required unused wires
running between the switches, and if you have to run new, it's far better
to run a triple and earth to do the job properly.

However, if a feed *from the same circuit* appears at one switch which is
say a two gang type, then this can be used to feed the two way circuit -
wired to the com on the two way switch. You then run only two cables - L1
and L2 to the L1 & L2 terminals of the second switch, and the common from
that becomes the switch feed to the lamp.

--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.