On 17/08/2017 21:07, Fredxxx wrote:
On 15/08/2017 19:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/08/2017 13:54, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 August 2017 08:36:31 UTC+1, charles wrote:
no date - but I've various part drums of Red/black/earth

Getting sought-after, that is.

Owain

indeed you can pre-date various now Part P items.

Why bother?

Brown/Blue was legit before part P, and Red Black after it. No one is
going to care in most cases...

Plus if it is after Part P, you just say you didn't do it. And add,
wouldn't it be illegal if I had?

I would be more inclined to say, I did it because I wanted it done
right, what you going to do about it? ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 23:54:34 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 21:19:53 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 23:41:20 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:20:20 +0100, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 14/08/2017 22:35, Scott wrote:
Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?


For a DIY extension lead, I did find that PVC cable was easier to find
and cheaper than rubber.

I wouldn't use rubber. It tends to perish after a few years and
become brittle.

Odd then that most high quality power tools have rubber, rather than PVC,
flex?

Not comparing like with like. Flex has to be able to be twisted,
coiled or whatever hundreds of times (clue lies in the name) and is
not generally expected to last 40 years. Nobody would wire a house
using flex.

May be out of date but:

"Part P approved document Appendix C

"Tough Rubber Sheathed (TRS), vulcanized rubber insulated (VRI) cables

"Prior to the use of pvc insulated cables becoming common in the
1960s, most cables installed in domestic dwellings were of the rubber
insulated, tough-rubber sheathed (TRS) type. These are easily
recognizable by their black exterior.

"The extent to which the insulation and sheath deteriorate in service
depends very much on whether the cable has been subjected to
overloading and/or excessive temperature, or the rubber has been
exposed to direct sunlight. Deterioration results in a loss of
insulating properties, with the rubber becoming dry and inflexible,
perhaps with a tendency to crumble.

"Such wiring installations should be tested by a competent person at
the earliest opportunity, but otherwise left undisturbed until
replacement, as they are beyond their normally expected safe working
life."

This does not look like encouragement to use rubber cable to me.

You are confusing two different applications; Permanent wiring and
flexible cables. For flexible cables, which can usually be replaced
fairly easily, rubber has the advantage of being much more flexible
than PVC and doesn't stiffen due to low temperatures.

No I am not confusing different applications. I am replying to a
posting that confuses two different applications. Please take care with
attribution.

You're confusing something. The comment about rubber being better than PVC
rather obviously applied to an extension lead - ie flex.

And given you can't buy rubber TW&E, no real point in discussing it for a
new installation.

Okay I think apologies are appropriate here. I misunderstood 'DIY
extension lead' and was thinking this was a spurred socket.

I agree flex is different and I am not advocating use of PVC cable as
flex. I agree there is no 'rubber 'cable' as such and the cable we
have is the recognised standard.

I apologise for creating confusion by going off at a tangent.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 23:50:33 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Nobody would wire a house using flex.

Who was suggesting you should?

BTW, the rubber used these days for flex might well be very different from
the rubber used all those years ago for house wiring, etc.

The main use of rubber in fixed installations as opposed to flex may
well the be marine industry . Constant vibration from engines ,flexing
of a vessel at sea causes stresses over time that can cause more rigid
materials to deteriorate.
The rubbers used are manufactured to a high standards often as laid
down by the various certification agencies such as LLoyds Register
,Bureau Veritas etc.

G.Harman

In article ,
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 23:50:33 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Nobody would wire a house using flex.

Who was suggesting you should?

BTW, the rubber used these days for flex might well be very different
from the rubber used all those years ago for house wiring, etc.

The main use of rubber in fixed installations as opposed to flex may
well the be marine industry . Constant vibration from engines ,flexing
of a vessel at sea causes stresses over time that can cause more rigid
materials to deteriorate.
The rubbers used are manufactured to a high standards often as laid
down by the various certification agencies such as LLoyds Register
,Bureau Veritas etc.

Interesting. But wasn't one of the fires on a ship during the Falklands
War said to have been much worse due to PVC in cable burning?

Not sure why a ship would have more vibration than a car or truck etc that
used PVC wiring - but flex, of course.

--
*I didn't like my beard at first. Then it grew on me.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 23:50:33 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
For a DIY extension lead, I did find that PVC cable was easier to
find and cheaper than rubber.

I wouldn't use rubber. It tends to perish after a few years and
become brittle.

Odd then that most high quality power tools have rubber, rather than
PVC, flex?

Not comparing like with like.

In what way is a power tool cord very different from an extension lead?

Flex has to be able to be twisted,
coiled or whatever hundreds of times (clue lies in the name) and is
not generally expected to last 40 years.

Nobody would wire a house using flex.

Who was suggesting you should?

BTW, the rubber used these days for flex might well be very different from
the rubber used all those years ago for house wiring, etc.

Points conceded in my other posting.

On 18/08/2017 09:30, wrote:
The main use of rubber in fixed installations as opposed to flex may
well the be marine industry . Constant vibration from engines ,flexing
of a vessel at sea causes stresses over time that can cause more rigid
materials to deteriorate.
The rubbers used are manufactured to a high standards often as laid
down by the various certification agencies such as LLoyds Register
,Bureau Veritas etc.

IIRC Aircraft wiring is done with Kaptan... fx googles

I don't RC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

.... Which damns kapton pretty thoroughly.

"Kapton-insulated electrical wiring has been widely used in civil and
military aircraft because it is lighter than other insulators and has
good insulating and temperature characteristics. However, Kapton
insulation ages poorly: an FAA study shows degradation in under 100
hours in a hot, humid environment,[5] or in the presence of seawater. It
was found to have very poor resistance to mechanical wear, mainly
abrasion within cable harnesses due to aircraft movement. Many aircraft
models have had to undergo extensive rewiring modifications€”sometimes
completely replacing all the Kapton-insulated wiring€”because of short
circuits caused by the faulty insulation. Kapton-wire degradation and
chafing due to vibration and heat has been implicated in multiple
crashes of both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, with loss of life."

And yet

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing..._Printable.pdf

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/yaqcggvw

Says it's still the best in many circumstances!

Andy

On 18/08/2017 21:53, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/08/2017 09:30, wrote:
The main use of rubber in fixed installations as opposed to flex may
well the be marine industry . Constant vibration from engines ,flexing
of a vessel at sea causes stresses over time that can cause more rigid
materials to deteriorate.
The rubbers used are manufactured to a high standards often as laid
down by the various certification agencies such as LLoyds Register
,Bureau Veritas etc.

IIRC Aircraft wiring is done with Kaptan... fx googles

I don't RC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

... Which damns kapton pretty thoroughly.

"Kapton-insulated electrical wiring has been widely used in civil and
military aircraft because it is lighter than other insulators and has
good insulating and temperature characteristics. However, Kapton
insulation ages poorly: an FAA study shows degradation in under 100
hours in a hot, humid environment,[5] or in the presence of seawater. It
was found to have very poor resistance to mechanical wear, mainly
abrasion within cable harnesses due to aircraft movement. Many aircraft
models have had to undergo extensive rewiring modifications€”sometimes
completely replacing all the Kapton-insulated wiring€”because of short
circuits caused by the faulty insulation. Kapton-wire degradation and
chafing due to vibration and heat has been implicated in multiple
crashes of both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, with loss of life."

And yet

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing..._Printable.pdf


AKA

http://tinyurl.com/yaqcggvw

Says it's still the best in many circumstances!

Andy
AIUI in the aircraft industry Kapton in cable looms and interconnects is
frowned upon (if not prohibited these days) but is still acceptable in
places like transformer or relay coils where it prevented from any sort
of relative movement.

--
Chris B (News)

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:35:20 +0100, Scott
wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 15:26:25 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:35:20 +0100, Scott
wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

Or Maplins last time I looked.
Why do people always put an S on the name , it is almost as bad as
using apostrophes incorrectly .
Shows what they used watch on the Telly .

G.Harman

Scott wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

That's a different question ... "where can I buy cable by the metre?"

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 15:26:25 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:35:20 +0100, Scott
wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

Or Maplins last time I looked.

When I asked they said it was discontinued.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:45:30 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

That's a different question ... "where can I buy cable by the metre?"

You are not wrong but I did not want to start a new thread for
substantially the same topic.

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:34:01 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 15:26:25 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:35:20 +0100, Scott
wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

Or Maplins last time I looked.
Why do people always put an S on the name , it is almost as bad as
using apostrophes incorrectly .
Shows what they used watch on the Telly .

OTOH Sainsbury's Supermarkets Ltd puts both an 's' and an apostrophe
in their trading name.

On 18/09/2017 17:14, Scott wrote:
OTOH Sainsbury's Supermarkets Ltd puts both an 's' and an apostrophe
in their trading name.

Quite right too. The company was founded in 1869, by John James
Sainsbury with a shop in Drury Lane, London. One would therefor talk of
going to Mr Sainsbury's shop for one's groceries.

--
Mike Clarke

On 19/09/2017 09:44, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 18/09/2017 17:14, Scott wrote:
OTOH Sainsbury's Supermarkets Ltd puts both an 's' and an apostrophe
in their trading name.

Quite right too. The company was founded in 1869, by John James
Sainsbury with a shop in Drury Lane, London. One would therefor talk of
going to Mr Sainsbury's shop for one's groceries.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...2/Drurylan.jpg

The sign says Sainsbury's for quality

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article , Scott
scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:35:20 +0100, Scott
wrote:

Does anyone know if you can still buy cable by the metre at B&Q or do
you have to buy a whole reel?

Now found an answer to my question. And the answer is ... Wilko.

Most electrical wholesalers will do by the metre, our local TLC does..
--
Tony Sayer