thanks harry
http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 8/4/2017 9:13 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry
http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.



What a good blog. Nice to have a translation of the more opaque material
available from Ofgem, for those (like me) that don't have the patience
or stamina to dig into it.

Going off at a tangent, the largely unjustified media outrage and
vilification of Centrica with the latest price rise seems to be
representative of the general style of the media as it becomes more and
more driven by "clicks".

I can't help wondering whether this contributes to the increasing public
discontent with anything labelled "establishment".

Does this explain the "stuff you" attitude when the opportunity to vote
arises, resulting in the generally unpredicted Brexit, May, and Trump
results?

On 04/08/17 22:13, newshound wrote:
On 8/4/2017 9:13 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry
http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.



What a good blog. Nice to have a translation of the more opaque material
available from Ofgem, for those (like me) that don't have the patience
or stamina to dig into it.

Going off at a tangent, the largely unjustified media outrage and
vilification of Centrica with the latest price rise seems to be
representative of the general style of the media as it becomes more and
more driven by "clicks".

I can't help wondering whether this contributes to the increasing public
discontent with anything labelled "establishment".

Does this explain the "stuff you" attitude when the opportunity to vote
arises, resulting in the generally unpredicted Brexit, May, and Trump
results?

I think there is a grain of truth in that.

Menawhile from another place, another exposé of renewable energy issues.

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2017/07/2...ind-and-solar/

Especially interseting is the point that adding subsidised capacity of
the intermittent kind drives up the price of fossil as they can no
longer produce enough to cover their fixed running costs and capital
repayment without price hikes.

At which point harry will squawk 'see! wind is cheaper than!'




--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

En el artículo ,
newshound escribió:

I can't help wondering whether this contributes to the increasing public
discontent with anything labelled "establishment".

Does this explain the "stuff you" attitude when the opportunity to vote
arises, resulting in the generally unpredicted Brexit, May, and Trump
results?

I've felt for a while that yes, it's more of a factor than it used to
be.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 8/4/2017 9:13 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry
http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.



What a good blog. Nice to have a translation of the more opaque material
available from Ofgem, for those (like me) that don't have the patience or
stamina to dig into it.

Going off at a tangent, the largely unjustified media outrage and
vilification of Centrica with the latest price rise seems to be
representative of the general style of the media as it becomes more and
more driven by "clicks".

I can't help wondering whether this contributes to the increasing public
discontent with anything labelled "establishment".

I think its more likely that that happens anyway when more
and more dont like what the establishment delivers.

Does this explain the "stuff you" attitude when the opportunity to vote
arises, resulting in the generally unpredicted Brexit, May, and Trump
results?

And Macron, yep.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use?
One that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg

what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's
smoke ...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message ...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use? One
that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg

what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's smoke
...

Just like the thermal images of "toxic" car exhausts recently widely
distributed by the MSM.

On 05/08/2017 02:04, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use?
One that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg


what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's
smoke ...



Well water vapour is the *main* greenhouse gas.

On 05/08/2017 12:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/08/2017 02:04, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use?
One that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg


what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's
smoke ...



Well water vapour is the *main* greenhouse gas.

Except its reflectivity to the sun's light is such it has a net cooling
effect.

On 06/08/2017 19:09, Fredxxx wrote:
On 05/08/2017 12:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/08/2017 02:04, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use?
One that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg



what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's
smoke ...



Well water vapour is the *main* greenhouse gas.

Except its reflectivity to the sun's light is such it has a net cooling
effect.

Clouds reflect, water vapour does not.
The clouds of "steam" are not steam or vapour but condensed droplets
(clouds).

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 06/08/2017 19:09, Fredxxx wrote:
On 05/08/2017 12:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/08/2017 02:04, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry

Meanwhile BBC, trump, paris climate deal, what picture should we use?
One that looks really nasty ...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13E35/production/_97216418_040893120.jpg


what do you mean, it's only water vapour? Dumb people will think it's
smoke ...



Well water vapour is the *main* greenhouse gas.

Except its reflectivity to the sun's light is such it has a net cooling
effect.

Clouds reflect, water vapour does not.

Its the water vapour that produces the clouds, stupid.

The clouds of "steam" are not steam or vapour but condensed droplets
(clouds).

On Fri, 04 Aug 2017 21:13:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.

Big rise in network costs.

Big surprise (not) as they are currently building a new feeder from the
Greater Gabbard and Galloper to an onshore connection point to the
National Grid [NG].

Scurrilous rumours (which I have not been able to track down on line yet)
have suggested that there is not enough link capacity to carry the full
output of the wind farms onto the NG at the moment.

On line searching suggests that this has been a troubled project at times.

So I am assuming that current power stations and planned future power
stations are at known places on the grid and much of the infrastructure is
already in place.

New installations, especially off shore, are likely to incur higher
network costs.

No idea where the overheads of installing and managing individual domestic
solar installations are accounted.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 8/5/2017 1:26 PM, David wrote:
On Fri, 04 Aug 2017 21:13:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

thanks harry http://watt-logic.com/2017/08/04/electricity-bills/
****.

Big rise in network costs.

Big surprise (not) as they are currently building a new feeder from the
Greater Gabbard and Galloper to an onshore connection point to the
National Grid [NG].

Scurrilous rumours (which I have not been able to track down on line yet)
have suggested that there is not enough link capacity to carry the full
output of the wind farms onto the NG at the moment.

On line searching suggests that this has been a troubled project at times.

So I am assuming that current power stations and planned future power
stations are at known places on the grid and much of the infrastructure is
already in place.

Investors in thermal plant probably understand the system far better,
and make sure at an early stage that a suitable grid connection will be
in place when needed. Of course it was all joined up in CEGB days.


New installations, especially off shore, are likely to incur higher
network costs.

No idea where the overheads of installing and managing individual domestic
solar installations are accounted.

Cheers


Dave R

On 05/08/2017 13:26, David wrote:

No idea where the overheads of installing

There aren't any extra network costs ATM.
The maximum array that a house is likely to have is 4kW.
So even if every house in an area has one the current network
installation will be able to carry it away to where it is being used.
It can already supply 4kW so it can carry that bidirectionally.

and managing individual domestic
solar installations are accounted.

There is no management, that's the problem.

David explained :
No idea where the overheads of installing and managing individual domestic
solar installations are accounted.

Logically, there should be no extra overheads for infrastructure, all
they are doing is back feeding down the lines and only then what it not
consumed on the premises, plus by other local consumers.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
David explained :
No idea where the overheads of installing and managing individual
domestic
solar installations are accounted.

Logically, there should be no extra overheads for infrastructure, all they
are doing is back feeding down the lines and only then what it not
consumed on the premises, plus by other local consumers.

In practice its not that simple.