I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece
(rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be
slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but
not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door, with no chance of
replacing it unless custom built (I've looked extensively), but good and
solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the frame.
Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the edge of
the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not to fit the
weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers

GMM laid this down on his screen :
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I want it
to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece (rebated), so
I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be slightly smaller
than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but not very thick) jamb. A
wide old Victorian door, with no chance of replacing it unless custom built
(I've looked extensively), but good and solid so plenty of scope to modify
it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the marks
and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

On 15/07/2017 13:20, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
GMM laid this down on his screen :
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece
(rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be
slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but
not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door, with no chance of
replacing it unless custom built (I've looked extensively), but good
and solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

Not really: It's very old and pretty structural-looking, with a great
deal of complicated architrave. If it was the sort of thing you find in
a new house, it would be a simple job

"GMM" wrote in message news
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I want it to open
outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece (rebated), so I can't prise off
the door stops

Sorry. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. The door sits in a rebate,
With the step all around 3 sides, acting as the door stop. But while
its impossible to prise this off as you say, given its solid, can't you
simply saw it or otherwise machine it off? It sounds an ideal job
for a multi tool.
Then possibly finishing off with a plane as this will be visible
when the door is rehung. Then reinstate the doorstop on the
other side by screwing or gluing appropriate fillets of matching
timber. I assume that the door stops should also serve to
draughtproof the opening to some extent on 3 sides by not
allowing a through passage of air. So that the closer they fit
to the door the better.

michael adams

....

On 15/07/2017 12:40, GMM wrote:
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece
(rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be
slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but
not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door, with no chance of
replacing it unless custom built (I've looked extensively), but good and
solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the frame.
Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the edge of
the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not to fit the
weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers

Instead of routing it, consider a plough plane, combination plane or
grooving plane, but you'd need one where the blade can be right up to
the front edge.

SteveW

GMM Wrote in message:
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece
(rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be
slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but
not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door, with no chance of
replacing it unless custom built (I've looked extensively), but good and
solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the frame.
Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the edge of
the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not to fit the
weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers


Reverse the frame too?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

jgh

wrote :
No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

I think a 6" difference in level of a door frame might be rather
obvious, plus of course very odd looking before the job is begun.

Normally a door frame and door will be square within a fraction of an
inch.

In message ,
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

Also you may create a security issue. Hinge pins and bolt will be
accessible from outside.

--
Tim Lamb

On 16/07/2017 00:55, wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

jgh

Actually, in my plan, the door (apart from the bits trimmed off, of
course) will stay exactly as it is, although the hinges and locl will be
swapped

On 16/07/2017 10:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

Also you may create a security issue. Hinge pins and bolt will be
accessible from outside.

In this case, not too much of an issue, as it's inside the conservatory,
and I'll fit security pins

On 15/07/2017 14:38, michael adams wrote:
"GMM" wrote in message news
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I want it to open
outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece (rebated), so I can't prise off
the door stops

Sorry. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. The door sits in a rebate,
With the step all around 3 sides, acting as the door stop. But while
its impossible to prise this off as you say, given its solid, can't you
simply saw it or otherwise machine it off? It sounds an ideal job
for a multi tool.
Then possibly finishing off with a plane as this will be visible
when the door is rehung. Then reinstate the doorstop on the
other side by screwing or gluing appropriate fillets of matching
timber. I assume that the door stops should also serve to
draughtproof the opening to some extent on 3 sides by not
allowing a through passage of air. So that the closer they fit
to the door the better.

michael adams

...





My reasoning is it will be a lot simpler to trim the door and plant on
some new timber trim to form the stop. I'm not sure that trying to
remove 1/2 x 3" all the way around the frame in situ will end well...

On 15/07/2017 14:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/07/2017 12:40, GMM wrote:
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is one-piece
(rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the opening will be
slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the existing (broad but
not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door, with no chance of
replacing it unless custom built (I've looked extensively), but good
and solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the
frame. Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the
edge of the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not
to fit the weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of
the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers

Instead of routing it, consider a plough plane, combination plane or
grooving plane, but you'd need one where the blade can be right up to
the front edge.

SteveW
Intersting thought, Steve. It looks like a grooving plane would be
simple enough to make, but I can't find an example anywhere of one that
can go right up to the edge. Maybe I'll suck it and see, although
developing a new tool wasn't quite what I had in mind for the job...

GMM Wrote in message:
On 16/07/2017 10:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

Also you may create a security issue. Hinge pins and bolt will be
accessible from outside.

In this case, not too much of an issue, as it's inside the conservatory,
and I'll fit security pins


Just add some hinge bolts.

"Hinge bolts*are designed to prevent doors being forced off
their*hinges. Usually in an attack*hinges*are the most targeted
area but by adding*hinge bolts*to your door they will help add an
extra layer of protection."

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Might it not be more sensible to just cut or unfix the whole frame and
turn it 180 degrees, so it opens out instead of in?

No no no no no! Never spin a door through 180 degrees, you'll end up
swapping a door that has warped gently to fit the frame into a door
that has a three-inch gap above one corner and a thre-inch overlap
above the other corner. Speaking from experience, I ruined a door and
frame in my house doing that!

Also you may create a security issue. Hinge pins and bolt will be
accessible from outside.


Hinges are accessible from te outside on many pvc patio doors.

Also you may create a security issue. Hinge pins and bolt will be
accessible from outside.


Hinges are accessible from te outside on many pvc patio doors.

And most will have Hinge Bolts.

On 16/07/2017 17:23, GMM wrote:
On 15/07/2017 14:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/07/2017 12:40, GMM wrote:
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I
want it to open outward into the conservatory. The frame is
one-piece (rebated), so I can't prise off the door stops and the
opening will be slightly smaller than now, with the hinges on the
existing (broad but not very thick) jamb. A wide old Victorian door,
with no chance of replacing it unless custom built (I've looked
extensively), but good and solid so plenty of scope to modify it.
So the job I plan is:
1 Mark the dimensions on the door in place as is, allowing for 2mm gap.
2 Remove all fittings, then the door, trim to size according to the
marks and generally refurbish.
3 Re-hang on new hinges, new lock, etc.
4 Build up the frame to form a new jamb

Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the
frame. Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the
edge of the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not
to fit the weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of
the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers

Instead of routing it, consider a plough plane, combination plane or
grooving plane, but you'd need one where the blade can be right up to
the front edge.

SteveW
Intersting thought, Steve. It looks like a grooving plane would be
simple enough to make, but I can't find an example anywhere of one that
can go right up to the edge. Maybe I'll suck it and see, although
developing a new tool wasn't quite what I had in mind for the job...

I am fairly sure that the combination plane that my dad had 30 or 40
years ago had the option of moving the blade for that purpose, but
unfortunately I don't know what make it was and it went many years ago.

SteveW

On 15/07/2017 12:40, GMM wrote:
I'll try not to be too long-winded (!)

The door between our hall and conservatory opens into the hall and I


Now, the question is how to seal it as the conservatory is very
draughty, so it's effectively an external door. I would rather avoid
the 'plant on' seals I currently have as they are unsightly.
Conventional modern weather stripping is set into a groove in the frame.
Routing this in situ would be tricky but a groove around the edge of
the door would be relatively simple. Is there any reason not to fit the
weather strip to the edges and top of the door instead of the frame?

Any critique of the rest of the plan is welcome of course.

Cheers

Many fire doors have a smoke sealing strip set into a groove around the
door I see that as a possible answer.

Mike

"GMM" wrote in message news

My reasoning is it will be a lot simpler to trim the door and plant on some new timber
trim to form the stop. I'm not sure that trying to remove 1/2 x 3" all the way around
the frame in situ will end well...

Sorry my mistake. I was thinking of the 2" stop on an internal door
rather than 3" on an external door, and using a half moon blade in
a multi tool with liberal use of PTFE on the underside of the
blade. With the head of the tool and thus the blade pressed tight
against the jamb. The surplus would have to be chiselled off
at regular intervals of course as the blade only offers 22mm of
cut. But that in itself would probably require an inordinate
amount of patience on a job of that size to say nothing of the
possibility/probability of the tool deciding to break down half
way through the job.

So that even if it ever was viable adding that extra inch
and maybe having to work from underneath along the
top ...


michael adams

....

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"GMM" wrote in message news

My reasoning is it will be a lot simpler to trim the door and plant on some new
timber
trim to form the stop. I'm not sure that trying to remove 1/2 x 3" all the way
around
the frame in situ will end well...

Sorry my mistake. I was thinking of the 2" stop on an internal door
rather than 3" on an external door, and using a half moon blade in
a multi tool with liberal use of PTFE on the underside of the
blade. With the head of the tool and thus the blade pressed tight
against the jamb. The surplus would have to be chiselled off
at regular intervals of course as the blade only offers 22mm of
cut. But that in itself would probably require an inordinate
amount of patience on a job of that size to say nothing of the
possibility/probability of the tool deciding to break down half
way through the job.

So that even if it ever was viable adding that extra inch
and maybe having to work from underneath along the
top ...


michael adams


Not really going to work that is it?

Why not, exactly ?

Assuming sufficient patience and determination and leaving
aside the possibility of the tool breaking down half way
through.


michael adams

....

"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"GMM" wrote in message news

My reasoning is it will be a lot simpler to trim the door and plant on some new timber
trim to form the stop. I'm not sure that trying to remove 1/2 x 3" all the way around
the frame in situ will end well...

Sorry my mistake. I was thinking of the 2" stop on an internal door
rather than 3" on an external door, and using a half moon blade in
a multi tool with liberal use of PTFE on the underside of the
blade. With the head of the tool and thus the blade pressed tight
against the jamb. The surplus would have to be chiselled off
at regular intervals of course as the blade only offers 22mm of
cut. But that in itself would probably require an inordinate
amount of patience on a job of that size to say nothing of the
possibility/probability of the tool deciding to break down half
way through the job.

So that even if it ever was viable adding that extra inch
and maybe having to work from underneath along the
top ...


michael adams


Not really going to work that is it?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"jim" k wrote in message o.uk...
"michael adams" Wrote in message:

"GMM" wrote in message news
My reasoning is it will be a lot simpler to trim the door and plant on some new
timber
trim to form the stop. I'm not sure that trying to remove 1/2 x 3" all the way
around
the frame in situ will end well...

Sorry my mistake. I was thinking of the 2" stop on an internal door
rather than 3" on an external door, and using a half moon blade in
a multi tool with liberal use of PTFE on the underside of the
blade. With the head of the tool and thus the blade pressed tight
against the jamb. The surplus would have to be chiselled off
at regular intervals of course as the blade only offers 22mm of
cut. But that in itself would probably require an inordinate
amount of patience on a job of that size to say nothing of the
possibility/probability of the tool deciding to break down half
way through the job.

So that even if it ever was viable adding that extra inch
and maybe having to work from underneath along the
top ...


michael adams


Not really going to work that is it?

Why not, exactly ?

Assuming sufficient patience and determination and leaving
aside the possibility of the tool breaking down half way
through.


michael adams

...

Changing angle of blade leaving under/over cut.

Partial saw cut depth leaving "bit in middle" to chisel off somehow...

Nah says "ball ache" all over it IMHO.

Doubtless you'll see different... having done something similar
recently I expect .. ;-)

--
Jim K


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