I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.

Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.

I try to use solid wood as I find it stiffer under heavy loads. Some
softwoods are not much better than ply. MMDF I find sags with time as do
some chipboards.

On 25/04/17 12:07, Capitol wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.

I try to use solid wood as I find it stiffer under heavy loads. Some
softwoods are not much better than ply. MMDF I find sags with time as do
some chipboards.

4th grade redwood (1 up from the cheap ****e whitewood) is pretty good.
7x1" (which I used for floorboards) is very solid.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.

I try to use solid wood as I find it stiffer under heavy loads. Some
softwoods are not much better than ply. MMDF I find sags with time as do
some chipboards.

But wont in that situation where most of the weight will
be on the ends thru the feet of the audio equipment.

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 11:51:31 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.

All of those & more would work. They all have their pros & cons.


NT

Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the size
might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to glue and
clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth, not to mention
the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true timber to begin
with.

Most of the gear is the standard 19" wide so at least the weight will be
concentrated close to the supported ends of the shelves rather than nearer
the middle.

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 12:28:50 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the size
might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to glue and
clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth, not to mention
the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true timber to begin
with.

You could use pineboard or not glue the pieces together. You can also glue without clamping if the wood is straight, you pressit together a little with household objects and aren't looking for consistently good glue strength.

Most of the gear is the standard 19" wide so at least the weight will be
concentrated close to the supported ends of the shelves rather than nearer
the middle.


NT

On 25/04/2017 12:28, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the
size might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to
glue and clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth, not
to mention the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true
timber to begin with.

Use tongue and groove floorboards. Put a decorative edge about 2" high
along the front edge to add rigidity. Put one along the back as well if
you like. Sand and stain, or paint.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:28, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the
size might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to
glue and clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth, not
to mention the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true
timber to begin with.

Use tongue and groove floorboards. Put a decorative edge about 2" high
along the front edge to add rigidity. Put one along the back as well if
you like. Sand and stain, or paint.

Bill


Bit of a sidetrack, but I wasted a lot of time searching for a walnut
hifi cabinet which would take 19 inch units. I finally compromised and
made a wheeled wooden platform and stacked them vertically. I don't know
where people find the space for the ultra wide cabinets/stands that are
the current fashion.

Bert Coules wrote

Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the
size might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to glue
and clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth, not to
mention the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true timber to
begin with.

A decent timber supplier can do all that for you.

Most of the gear is the standard 19" wide so at least the weight will be
concentrated close to the supported ends of the shelves rather than nearer
the middle.

Yep, and for that reason you can use anything.

Rod Speed wrote:

A decent timber supplier can do all that for you.

Thanks for that, and your other replies. There used to be an excellent
timber supplier in the next town to me but alas it closed some years back.
I've enquired at the second nearest (which is actually quite a distance
away) about various things in the past and always been told that my order
was too small for them to bother with.

Bert

Bert Coules wrote
Rod Speed wrote

A decent timber supplier can do all that for you.

Thanks for that, and your other replies. There used to be an excellent
timber supplier in the next town to me but alas it closed some years
back. I've enquired at the second nearest (which is actually quite a
distance away) about various things in the past and always been
told that my order was too small for them to bother with.

Sure, but with a one off like that, does it really matter if you have
to do a bit of a trip to get to one that will supply it like that ?

And those shelves are trivially shippable too, so just ring them up.

On 25/04/2017 19:15, Rod Speed wrote:
Bert Coules wrote

Thanks for the speedy replies. I'd like to use solid wood, though the
size might be a problem: I don't at the moment have the facilities to
glue and clamp narrower pieces together to get the necessary depth,
not to mention the difficulty of finding good enough straight and true
timber to begin with.

A decent timber supplier can do all that for you.

Most of the gear is the standard 19" wide so at least the weight will
be concentrated close to the supported ends of the shelves rather than
nearer the middle.

Yep, and for that reason you can use anything.

except OSB, which will sag.

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
I have used solid wood for shelves intended to carry significant
weight, but as you say, you have to glue narrower pieces together as
you can't easily get the depth on single planks these days (well, I
couldn't, locally). Can't remember how I clamped them but it might
have simply been flat on the top of the Workmate, although how I did
the ends, I don't recall (they were typically 6ft long pieces), but
22" should be easy.

Pretty sure you can buy ready made shelving made out of real wood strips
glued together. Find the most economical length that can be cut to what
you need.

The other way would be (as you said) real engineered wood flooring, glued
back to back and clamped until dry. An end of range product could be very
good value.

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave,

...real engineered wood flooring...
An end of range product could be very
good value.

An interesting thought, thanks.

On 25/04/2017 13:57, Bert Coules wrote:
Dave,

...real engineered wood flooring...
An end of range product could be very
good value.

An interesting thought, thanks.


You'd be amazed how strong a shelf can be made out
of a piece of cheapo sapele flush panel door. The
type that could be bought for about a tenner, or free
from most skips where a refurb is being done.

Cut to length and width and then use a planer to get
a bit of nominally 2X2 down to the thickness of the
egg box core.

Carefully push back the eggy box material, breaking the
glue, sand down the exposed glue ridges and glue in the
new bits of planed edge timber.

Then you only need to pin or glue some bits of sepele
strip to the exposed edges to match the top and
bottom surfaces.

Or use bits of kitchen work top for a really strong
shelf.

Or a piece of scaffolding board.

"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.



18mm ply. (or thicker but £££ & probly overkill).

Mdf & chip will sag especially if they absorb moisture.

Edge the exposed edges with a D shape hardwood moulding.

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Thanks, Jim. Do you suggest the edging as a precaution against absorbing
moisture from the air? As I said, appearance isn't really an issue.

"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
Thanks, Jim. Do you suggest the edging as a precaution against absorbing
moisture from the air? As I said, appearance isn't really an issue.




No.

Just makes common ply edges look better, costs little.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Jim,

Just makes common ply edges look better, costs little.

Ah, I see. Given that there will only be one edge visible, it probably
would be worth doing, you're right. Thanks.

On 25/04/2017 12:51, Bert Coules wrote:
Jim,

Just makes common ply edges look better, costs little.

Ah, I see. Given that there will only be one edge visible, it probably
would be worth doing, you're right. Thanks.

It also lets you route the edge for a slight roundover, which looks and
feels better - it also stops you catching the edge as you slide stuff
onto the shelf and potentially chipping it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/04/17 12:31, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks, Jim. Do you suggest the edging as a precaution against
absorbing moisture from the air? As I said, appearance isn't really an
issue.


its more appearance and a bit of stiffness I'd say.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Yes, Jim confirmed the appearance angle. Thin moulding wouldn't add much in
the way of stiffness, would it?

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 12:56:35 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
Yes, Jim confirmed the appearance angle. Thin moulding wouldn't add much in
the way of stiffness, would it?

not normally. Sometimes people edge with oversize wood though.


NT

On 25/04/2017 12:56, Bert Coules wrote:

Yes, Jim confirmed the appearance angle. Thin moulding wouldn't add
much in the way of stiffness, would it?

Sometimes I will "lip" a shelf with a deeper bit of softwood - say 1" or
so. It adds a little bit of stiffness, but is also a handy way to eek
out more shelves from a sheet of ply, since you can cut them very
slightly narrower and make up the difference with the lipping.

If you need the extra stiffness, then a deep lipping (i.e. one much
thicker than the shelf, that finishes flush with its top surface, but
descends below the bottom one) will do that.

Another option for cheap but stiff shelves is you buy "window board"
(i.e. the stuff designed to make internal windowsills). I used that with
some 2x1" battens on the sides and back for a "chunky" look:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ardShelves.jpg

(some to think of it, that was nearly 10 years ago, and I am still
intending to varnish those one day ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bert Coules wrote

Yes, Jim confirmed the appearance angle. Thin moulding wouldn't add much
in the way of stiffness, would it?

Correct, and you dont need stiffness in your situation anyway.

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.



18mm ply. (or thicker but £££ & probly overkill).

Mdf & chip will sag especially if they absorb moisture.

Not in that situation with most of the weight on the
feet of the audio equipment at the ends of the shelves.

Edge the exposed edges with a D shape hardwood moulding.

No need if solid timber is used.

"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.



18mm ply. (or thicker but £££ & probly overkill).

Mdf & chip will sag especially if they absorb moisture.

Not in that situation with most of the weight on the
feet of the audio equipment at the ends of the shelves.


even with minimal load mdf & chipboard will sag over time. BTDTGTTS.

Edge the exposed edges with a D shape hardwood moulding.

No need if solid timber is used.

But you'd have to spend time shaping the edge to look as good...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"jim" k wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between
MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it?
And appearance isn't really a factor.

Many thanks.



18mm ply. (or thicker but £££ & probly overkill).

Mdf & chip will sag especially if they absorb moisture.

Not in that situation with most of the weight on the
feet of the audio equipment at the ends of the shelves.

even with minimal load mdf & chipboard will sag over time.

How odd that mine hasn't, with 2 years supply of
marmalade in 600ml glass jars on it for 8 years now.

BTDTGTTS.

HGTFEOK

Edge the exposed edges with a D shape hardwood moulding.

No need if solid timber is used.

But you'd have to spend time shaping the edge to look as good...

Nope, just buy it finished like that.

In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

Plywood is always going to be the strongest material, like for like. MDF
probably the easiest to work.

I've got mine on toughened glass. ;-)

--
*Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 13:07:03 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Plywood is always going to be the strongest material, like for like. MDF
probably the easiest to work.

except for plain old wood, which has all the grain in the right direction.

I've got mine on toughened glass. ;-)

a good option, if not the cheapest.


NT

On 25/04/17 13:32, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 13:07:03 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I have to erect some shelves: 22 inches wide, supported at the ends by
heavy-duty bookcase-type uprights and brackets. This is to hold fairly
weighty audio-video equipment.

Given an equal thickness (18mm? 20mm? More?) and a choice between MDF,
plywood, veneered chipboard, solid timber or something else, would any
particular material be preferable? 22 inches isn't much of a span, is
it? And appearance isn't really a factor.

I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Plywood is always going to be the strongest material, like for like. MDF
probably the easiest to work.

except for plain old wood, which has all the grain in the right direction.

I've got mine on toughened glass. ;-)

a good option, if not the cheapest.


When you look at the time and cost of finishing wood, sometimes it ain't
that expensive..


NT



--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

wrote:

No, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf.

Indeed. And my Revox tape machine is even heavier than my amp.

In article ,
wrote:
I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Ish. A decent deck should have its own suspension built in.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 13:56:54 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Ish. A decent deck should have its own suspension built in.

of course it will. And for good results it needs a very stiff shelf.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 13:56:54 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
I doubt much of the AV equipment weighs much - with the exception of a
meaty power amp.

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Ish. A decent deck should have its own suspension built in.

of course it will. And for good results it needs a very stiff shelf.


I'd say rather it needs isolation from floor etc vibration. And given
turntables generally ain't that heavy (in Revox or power amp terms)
anything that looks the part should be OK.

--
*No sentence fragments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/04/2017 13:32, wrote:

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Why?
They fit rubber feet to make them flexible.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 25/04/2017 13:32, wrote:

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Why?
They fit rubber feet to make them flexible.

And as I said should have any suspension needed built in.

Older decks with no suspension like the Garrard 301 did need to be solidly
mounted, but no one uses those rumbly old things today, surely?

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 00:40:28 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 25/04/2017 13:32, tabbypurr wrote:

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Why?
They fit rubber feet to make them flexible.

And as I said should have any suspension needed built in.

IME that simply is not enough.

Older decks with no suspension like the Garrard 301 did need to be solidly
mounted, but no one uses those rumbly old things today, surely?

who knows. I always hated garrards, but of course they were superseded by far worse.


NT

On 26/04/2017 00:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 25/04/2017 13:32, wrote:

no, but vinyl decks do want a very stiff shelf

Why?
They fit rubber feet to make them flexible.

And as I said should have any suspension needed built in.

Older decks with no suspension like the Garrard 301 did need to be solidly
mounted, but no one uses those rumbly old things today, surely?


Are you sure it had no suspension?
I remember having to undo the transit screws to allow the springs to work.