The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )

Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc


--
Jim K

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

The first we knew about corrosion in our tank was when an insurance loss
adjuster checked our tank as a routine check while visiting about an
unrelated oil leak in the pipe that had been caused by a compression fitting
working loose. He noticed rust-bubbling at the bottom of the tank. We
ordered a new tank and had it fitted. After the guys had transferred all the
oil from the old tank and it was safely empty, the guy said "do you want to
see how thin the tank was?" and handed me a screwdriver. Pointing to a bit
of tank that looked in perfectly good condition, he said "Tap it *gently*
just there". And the blade went right through - that would have been a major
oil spill if I'd happened to knock something into the tank while it had been
full - gulp! And until he drew my attention to the weak spot, it had looked
just the same as the rest of the tank - which was still sound - no bulging
or bowing or bubbling on that bit of the tank. Ironically, the bit that was
bubbling was still perfectly sound.

On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc



It seems to be just an acoustic thickness test, performed at a number of
points. Google has unearthed a bit of discussion about testing domestic
tanks, but mostly in the US and Canada.

The stuff you mention is mostly already sussed (and I take your point
about waiting for evidence of a weep) but a corrosion test would give me
an idea of whether I need to plan for replacement almost as soon as we
move in or whether it can wait until other works are done. I'm in the
usual situation of not knowing what I don't know, so maybe I'm
over-thinking it, but I'd prefer not to risk having fuel oil dumped into
the ground.

On 23/03/2017 21:31, NY wrote:
"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

The first we knew about corrosion in our tank was when an insurance loss
adjuster checked our tank as a routine check while visiting about an
unrelated oil leak in the pipe that had been caused by a compression
fitting working loose. He noticed rust-bubbling at the bottom of the
tank. We ordered a new tank and had it fitted. After the guys had
transferred all the oil from the old tank and it was safely empty, the
guy said "do you want to see how thin the tank was?" and handed me a
screwdriver. Pointing to a bit of tank that looked in perfectly good
condition, he said "Tap it *gently* just there". And the blade went
right through - that would have been a major oil spill if I'd happened
to knock something into the tank while it had been full - gulp! And
until he drew my attention to the weak spot, it had looked just the same
as the rest of the tank - which was still sound - no bulging or bowing
or bubbling on that bit of the tank. Ironically, the bit that was
bubbling was still perfectly sound.

Now you've got me worried. These tanks are old (30 years) and have rust
patches.

On 3/23/2017 9:39 PM, wrote:
On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc



It seems to be just an acoustic thickness test, performed at a number of
points. Google has unearthed a bit of discussion about testing domestic
tanks, but mostly in the US and Canada.

The stuff you mention is mostly already sussed (and I take your point
about waiting for evidence of a weep) but a corrosion test would give me
an idea of whether I need to plan for replacement almost as soon as we
move in or whether it can wait until other works are done. I'm in the
usual situation of not knowing what I don't know, so maybe I'm
over-thinking it, but I'd prefer not to risk having fuel oil dumped into
the ground.

Not bunded then? That would certainly make me more cautious.

I would have wondered whether an eddy current test might be more
effective than ultrasonics. Not that I have any specialist experience in
NDT (although I used to know guys who did).

On 23/03/2017 21:31, NY wrote:

After the guys had
transferred all the oil from the old tank and it was safely empty, the
guy said "do you want to see how thin the tank was?" and handed me a
screwdriver. Pointing to a bit of tank that looked in perfectly good
condition, he said "Tap it *gently* just there". And the blade went
right through - that would have been a major oil spill if I'd happened
to knock something into the tank while it had been full - gulp! And
until he drew my attention to the weak spot, it had looked just the same
as the rest of the tank - which was still sound - no bulging or bowing
or bubbling on that bit of the tank. Ironically, the bit that was
bubbling was still perfectly sound.

How did the guy know where the week spot was?

It is quite easy to inspect the outside of a tank but how would you tell
if it is rusting on the inside?


--
Michael Chare

On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

Non destructive thickness determination.

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

It is surprising how well (good old) Hammerite can last after the steel
has rusted through. Our old tank developed a leak after being overfilled
(they delivered fuel to the wrong address!).

I had it replaced and the guy who put the new tank in was convinced that
I was being over cautious because most of the tank looked sound. However
there was a line around the base where the water fuel boundary was that
was wafer thin. When they came to lift the tank off its base the tank
bottom stayed put and pealed away from the box section.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc

Pretty much has to be bunded these days. If it isn't leaking then a good
coat of classic Hammerite every 5 years will extend its lifetime. I
don't know if the modern eco friendly formulation is any good.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/03/2017 23:46, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/03/2017 21:31, NY wrote:

After the guys had
transferred all the oil from the old tank and it was safely empty, the
guy said "do you want to see how thin the tank was?" and handed me a
screwdriver. Pointing to a bit of tank that looked in perfectly good
condition, he said "Tap it *gently* just there". And the blade went
right through - that would have been a major oil spill if I'd happened
to knock something into the tank while it had been full - gulp! And
until he drew my attention to the weak spot, it had looked just the same
as the rest of the tank - which was still sound - no bulging or bowing
or bubbling on that bit of the tank. Ironically, the bit that was
bubbling was still perfectly sound.

How did the guy know where the week spot was?

It is quite easy to inspect the outside of a tank but how would you tell
if it is rusting on the inside?


A giant ship engine failed. The ship’s owners tried one expert after
another, but none of them could figure but how to fix the engine.

Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a
young. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he
immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to
bottom.

Two of the ship’s owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would
know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his
bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something.
Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer
away. The engine was fixed!

A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for ten
thousand dollars.

“What?!” the owners exclaimed. “He hardly did anything!”

So they wrote the old man a note saying, “Please send us an itemized bill.”

The man sent a bill that read:

Tapping with a hammer………………….. $ 2.00

Knowing where to tap…………………….. $ 9,998.00

*Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort makes all the
difference!

Mike

Martin Brown wrote:

a good coat of classic Hammerite every 5 years will extend its
lifetime. I don't know if the modern eco friendly formulation is any
good.

Given that so many paints have reformulated and made poorer in the name
of reducing their VOC, how come you can still buy white spirit by the
gallon, which AFAICMO is pure VOC?

On Thursday, 23 March 2017 20:33:30 UTC, wrote:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )

It's been available for years.
We used it on steam boilers.
It was part of an insurance inspection.


There's stuff he-
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/ultrasonic-thickness-gauge

On Thursday, 23 March 2017 20:33:30 UTC, wrote:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )

You might consider getting rid and having a ground/air source heat pump. Subsidies available?

On 24/03/17 08:43, Martin Brown wrote:
However there was a line around the base where the water fuel
boundary was that was wafer thin. When they came to lift the tank off
its base the tank bottom stayed put and pealed away from the box
section....

....... If it isn't leaking then a good
coat of classic Hammerite every 5 years will extend its lifetime. I
don't know if the modern eco friendly formulation is any good.

Any one else spot the deliberate mistake?

Well tow, but we will let him off the misspelling of 'peel'

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:40:50 +0000, wrote:

Now you've got me worried. These tanks are old (30 years) and have rust
patches.

Assume End Of Life. Budget for replacement, you don't want to dump a
few thousand litres of heating oil on the ground, partly the cost of
the oil but also the Enviroment Agency who will jump up and down and
insist that all the "contaminated" soil etc is removed as "hazardous
waste". Heaven forbid if it gets into a water course...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes

Well tow, but we will let him off the misspelling of 'peel'

Shall we ignore yours, tow? Oh, two. No, to. Oh, OK, too :-)
--
Graeme

Wrote in message:
On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc



It seems to be just an acoustic thickness test, performed at a number of
points. Google has unearthed a bit of discussion about testing domestic
tanks, but mostly in the US and Canada.


That should tell you something...

The stuff you mention is mostly already sussed (and I take your point
about waiting for evidence of a weep) but a corrosion test would give me
an idea of whether I need to plan for replacement almost as soon as we
move in or whether it can wait until other works are done.


I doubt any survey would give you any reliable guarantees on when
that would be. (note the lack of "if")

With a tank age of 30 years, I would be putting survey fees of a
few hundred quid towards the couple of thousand? for installation
of a new tank & associated upgrades.

How full is the old one?
What's the access to it & around & under it like?

--
Jim K

Wrote in message:
On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:

snip

I'm in the
usual situation of not knowing what I don't know, so maybe I'm
over-thinking it, but I'd prefer not to risk having fuel oil dumped into
the ground.

Oh forgot to add, it evaporates hence the smell. What's the ground
under & around the tank like? Concrete pad? Or less
optimal?

--
Jim K

On 24/03/2017 15:58, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:

snip

I'm in the
usual situation of not knowing what I don't know, so maybe I'm
over-thinking it, but I'd prefer not to risk having fuel oil dumped into
the ground.

Oh forgot to add, it evaporates hence the smell. What's the ground
under & around the tank like? Concrete pad? Or less
optimal?


It's just soil underneath. There's no sign of a weep at the moment but,
having done a bit more research, I'll plan for early replacement.

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.

Martin Brown Wrote in message:
On 23/03/2017 21:09, jim wrote:
Wrote in message:
The fun thing about moving to a new house is the whole pile of new
things to learn about! Here's the next: testing oil tanks for corrosion.

I believe it's possible to use ultrasonics to test a single-skin steel
tank for corrosion, but can't find much about it on t'web. Has anyone
here had it done? If so, what was the cost?

(I briefly wondered about trying to design a DIY tester, but as the
years roll by I just want to get things done rather than taking-on new
projects, especially projects for projects ;-) )


How would ultrasonics test for corrosion in practice?

Non destructive thickness determination.

& why bother though?
A pinhole leak (as that's what will happen first) will be
sufficient notice (smell mainly) that the steel one's on its last
leg.

It is surprising how well (good old) Hammerite can last after the steel
has rusted through. Our old tank developed a leak after being overfilled
(they delivered fuel to the wrong address!).

I had it replaced and the guy who put the new tank in was convinced that
I was being over cautious because most of the tank looked sound. However
there was a line around the base where the water fuel boundary was that
was wafer thin. When they came to lift the tank off its base the tank
bottom stayed put and pealed away from the box section.

Instead of checking for corrosion assume there will be some &
spend your time sussing out the regs etc of it's inevitable
replacement. Plastic? Steel? Bunded? Size (consumer max is 3500
Istr)? Who will supply, fit & certify? For how much? Etc. Etc

Pretty much has to be bunded these days.

Er no


http://www.oilstorageregs.co.uk
--
Jim K

On 3/24/2017 9:09 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

a good coat of classic Hammerite every 5 years will extend its
lifetime. I don't know if the modern eco friendly formulation is any
good.

Given that so many paints have reformulated and made poorer in the name
of reducing their VOC, how come you can still buy white spirit by the
gallon, which AFAICMO is pure VOC?

Well so is petrol although you try not to let too much evaporate, I suppose.

But you win twice with water based paints. No VOCs, and no need for
white spirit for thinning or cleaning.

newshound Wrote in message:
On 3/24/2017 9:09 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

a good coat of classic Hammerite every 5 years will extend its
lifetime. I don't know if the modern eco friendly formulation is any
good.

Given that so many paints have reformulated and made poorer in the name
of reducing their VOC, how come you can still buy white spirit by the
gallon, which AFAICMO is pure VOC?

Well so is petrol although you try not to let too much evaporate, I suppose.

But you win twice with water based paints. No VOCs, and no need for
white spirit for thinning or cleaning.


Fsvo "win"
--
Jim K

newshound wrote:

you win twice with water based paints. No VOCs, and no need for
white spirit for thinning or cleaning.

Less so with water based dyes and varnishes, you sand the wood down
nicely and it keeps raising the grain, you can't give it more that the
/lightest/ rub down or you lose the colour :-(