I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply with,
fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply

On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs, but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Owain

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply with,
fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply

That's defined by rules of your local BCO. An example set of rules
I saw is having more than 2 of things like staircase, heating, power,
lighting, flooring, walls, etc makes it count as habitable.

The other thing that applies in any case is minimum headroom over
any new stair case (something like 2m, but I don't recall the exact
value).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs, but
there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or
perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a staircase
would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and the
full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't
floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Walls and windows I can accept could make a room be deemed to be habitable,
but surely a loft is not habitable just because you've laid some chipboard
flooring to save you having to walk on the joists and to place boxes across
joists.

Those alternating tread staircases look horrific. I think I'd rather have a
ladder that had 2" treads across the whole width that one which had 6" on
one side and 3" on the other - too much risk of using the wrong foot and
treading on a part of the tread that isn't there!

http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...FWMz0wodNEsBAQ

"NY" Wrote in message:
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs, but
there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or
perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a staircase
would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and the
full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't
floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Walls and windows I can accept could make a room be deemed to be habitable,
but surely a loft is not habitable just because you've laid some chipboard
flooring to save you having to walk on the joists and to place boxes across
joists.

Those alternating tread staircases look horrific. I think I'd rather have a
ladder that had 2" treads across the whole width that one which had 6" on
one side and 3" on the other - too much risk of using the wrong foot and
treading on a part of the tread that isn't there!

Unless you are able to & can't stop yourself hopping up/down
stairs you should be ok once you've started :-)

a friend had a really man size folding loft "ladder" fitted that
was more akin to a staircase. It folded in 2 & up & away as
normal.
He asked me to help fit it but as his modern roof was trussed
rafters, I declined & explained why not!

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs, but
there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or
perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a staircase
would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and
the full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't
floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Walls and windows I can accept could make a room be deemed to be
habitable, but surely a loft is not habitable just because you've laid
some chipboard flooring to save you having to walk on the joists and to
place boxes across joists.

Those alternating tread staircases look horrific. I think I'd rather have
a ladder that had 2" treads across the whole width that one which had 6"
on one side and 3" on the other - too much risk of using the wrong foot
and treading on a part of the tread that isn't there!

http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...FWMz0wodNEsBAQ

Fark, I'd never have those in any house of mine, as you say, too much risk
of very serious
injury if you fall down them.

On 16/03/2017 20:35, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage,
but someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of
Building Regs requirements. Can anyone clarify whether there are
any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room
(or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a
habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would
apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable
room.

You may be right, but I thought the definition of a habitable room was
one conforming to the regulations.

Storage, or an uninhabitable room, by very definition, was one that
failed these regulations?

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 08:45:50 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"NY" wrote in message
news:uLWdnXf1mKPPZFfFnZ2dnUU78I_NnZ2d@brightview. co.uk...
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs, but
there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or
perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a staircase
would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and
the full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't
floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Walls and windows I can accept could make a room be deemed to be
habitable, but surely a loft is not habitable just because you've laid
some chipboard flooring to save you having to walk on the joists and to
place boxes across joists.

Those alternating tread staircases look horrific. I think I'd rather have
a ladder that had 2" treads across the whole width that one which had 6"
on one side and 3" on the other - too much risk of using the wrong foot
and treading on a part of the tread that isn't there!

http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...FWMz0wodNEsBAQ

Fark, I'd never have those in any house of mine, as you say, too much risk
of very serious
injury if you fall down them.


I've never seen anything like that before. Why not go the whole hog
and put one of these in ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 16/03/2017 19:37, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply with,
fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply



It's just a very big boarded loft - roughly 70'x20'x10' - but, for the
foreseeable future, it's only going to be used for storage.

wrote:
On 16/03/2017 19:37, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply
with,
fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply



It's just a very big boarded loft - roughly 70'x20'x10' - but, for the
foreseeable future, it's only going to be used for storage.

Perfect for train set!

On 16/03/2017 20:35, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage,
but someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of
Building Regs requirements. Can anyone clarify whether there are
any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room
(or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

It would need 2m of headroom over at least the central part of the
treads. Alternate stair sets are ok for lofts in some cases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a
habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would
apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable
room.

Boarding and roof window would probably be ok. Having said that the
rules have changed since I did mine.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/03/2017 23:04, Capitol wrote:
wrote:
On 16/03/2017 19:37, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply
with,
fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply



It's just a very big boarded loft - roughly 70'x20'x10' - but, for the
foreseeable future, it's only going to be used for storage.

Perfect for train set!

:-)
I set-up a OO train set in my (much smaller) current loft when the kids
were young, but they were often a bit too spooked to be happy up there,
and the track was forever needing a clean. Perhaps we should have used
my ex-F-I-L's ancient train set, which I think had mains n the tracks!

This new loft is big enough to get a full-size loco in - it would only
need a *small* amount of reinforcing, and an extra chimney :eeek!

On 16/03/2017 21:52, Fredxxx wrote:
On 16/03/2017 20:35, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage,
but someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of
Building Regs requirements. Can anyone clarify whether there are
any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room
(or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a
habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would
apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable
room.

You may be right, but I thought the definition of a habitable room was
one conforming to the regulations.

Storage, or an uninhabitable room, by very definition, was one that
failed these regulations?

Generally speaking sleeping or "living" in the room makes it habitable.
(although bathrooms are traditionally not habitable IIRC)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 08:45:50 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"NY" wrote in message
news:uLWdnXf1mKPPZFfFnZ2dnUU78I_NnZ2d@brightview .co.uk...
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but
there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room (or
perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase
would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a habitable room and
the full requirements of loft conversion would apply. If the loft isn't
floored etc then it won't be a habitable room.

Walls and windows I can accept could make a room be deemed to be
habitable, but surely a loft is not habitable just because you've laid
some chipboard flooring to save you having to walk on the joists and to
place boxes across joists.

Those alternating tread staircases look horrific. I think I'd rather
have
a ladder that had 2" treads across the whole width that one which had 6"
on one side and 3" on the other - too much risk of using the wrong foot
and treading on a part of the tread that isn't there!

http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...FWMz0wodNEsBAQ

Fark, I'd never have those in any house of mine, as you say,
too much risk of very serious injury if you fall down them.


I've never seen anything like that before. Why not go the whole hog
and put one of these in ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine

Fark. I realised that they didn't give a damn about how
many people got killed and injured in the 19th century
but didn't realise it was quite THAT bad.

I guess it depends on your definition of habitable. If you are continually
going there to put stuff up in the loft or bring it down then to my mind its
habitable. If you are not going to use it much then why clutter the place
with a permanent staircase all the time?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it's a habitable room, then there's a raft of regulations to comply
with, fire doors, alarms etc.
If it's for storage, then i don't think any of these apply

In message , writes

Perhaps we should have used my ex-F-I-L's ancient train set, which I
think had mains n the tracks!

That was quite common in the early days of electric toy trains, with a
light bulb wired in series. 1920s.
--
Graeme

On 16/03/2017 19:12, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it was for your convenience and you did only use the room for storage
I don't see why it would matter.

As you would be providing a fixed opening into the loft, best to fit
smoke detectors at both ends of stair case for safety while up there.

The only issue that will arise when you come to sell the place is that
the room would have to be declared as storage use only.

As others have said, if you wanted to "convert" the space into a
habitable room, you would have to involve building regs and comply with
a raft of requirements - mostly reasonable ones to be fair.

Phil

On 17/03/17 07:38, Brian Gaff wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of habitable.

NO. It depends on the legal definition of habitable, Brian.




--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

thescullster posted
On 16/03/2017 19:12, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it was for your convenience and you did only use the room for
storage I don't see why it would matter.

As you would be providing a fixed opening into the loft, best to fit
smoke detectors at both ends of stair case for safety while up there.

The only issue that will arise when you come to sell the place is that
the room would have to be declared as storage use only.

As others have said, if you wanted to "convert" the space into a
habitable room, you would have to involve building regs and comply with
a raft of requirements - mostly reasonable ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than one
year after construction.

--
Jack

Convert to Islam and call it a Prayer Room. It will escape any attention.

Handsome Jack Wrote in message:
thescullster posted
On 16/03/2017 19:12, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it was for your convenience and you did only use the room for
storage I don't see why it would matter.

As you would be providing a fixed opening into the loft, best to fit
smoke detectors at both ends of stair case for safety while up there.

The only issue that will arise when you come to sell the place is that
the room would have to be declared as storage use only.

As others have said, if you wanted to "convert" the space into a
habitable room, you would have to involve building regs and comply with
a raft of requirements - mostly reasonable ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than one
year after construction.


Unless an injunction is served iirc...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , Rod Speed
writes
"NY" wrote in message news:uLWdnXf1mKPPZFfF


http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...h-plywood-trea
ds-sssss2-p-2001.html?gclid=CLe7mMTx29ICFWMz0wodNEsBAQ

Fark, I'd never have those in any house of mine, as you say, too much
risk of very serious
injury if you fall down them.

Look at the first few seconds of this video for a practical application.
Watch the rest of the video if you like old toy trains in the loft :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykap...ature=youtu.be
--
Graeme

In article ,
wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

Think most would assume if you're going to the considerable expense of
installing a proper staircase, the room will no longer be used for storage.

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/03/2017 23:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/03/2017 21:52, Fredxxx wrote:
On 16/03/2017 20:35, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage,
but someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of
Building Regs requirements. Can anyone clarify whether there are
any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room
(or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a
habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would
apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable
room.

You may be right, but I thought the definition of a habitable room was
one conforming to the regulations.

Storage, or an uninhabitable room, by very definition, was one that
failed these regulations?

Generally speaking sleeping or "living" in the room makes it habitable.
(although bathrooms are traditionally not habitable IIRC)

Sorry if I'm not clear.

If you want to make a room habitable then you have to conform to all the
rules to make the room habitable. It also means when you market a house,
the room can be called a 'habitable' room [1].

If the room fails in some way, such as a ceiling being 25mm too low, or
access via a ladder then the room, by definition, is non habitable.

If someone then sleeps there, it's not relevant whether the room is
habitable or not. It only matters to Building Control and when you
market a property if you want to call the room habitable.

[1] Kitchens and bathrooms excepted

DerbyBorn Wrote in message:
Convert to Islam and call it a Prayer Room. It will escape any attention.


:-)

There's probably a grant if you can limp convincingly...
Or just claim to have converted, then later quietly convert back?...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 17/03/2017 10:58, Fredxxx wrote:
On 16/03/2017 23:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 16/03/2017 21:52, Fredxxx wrote:
On 16/03/2017 20:35, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 March 2017 19:12:04 UTC, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage,
but someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of
Building Regs requirements. Can anyone clarify whether there are
any rules around this?

I think the staircase itself will have to comply with Building Regs,
but there are some relaxations for staircases only serving one room
(or perhaps a non-habitable room) eg the spacesaver alternating tread
staircases.

If the loft is floored / walled / has any windows then adding a
staircase would I think be presumed to be using the loft as a
habitable room and the full requirements of loft conversion would
apply. If the loft isn't floored etc then it won't be a habitable
room.

You may be right, but I thought the definition of a habitable room was
one conforming to the regulations.

Storage, or an uninhabitable room, by very definition, was one that
failed these regulations?

Generally speaking sleeping or "living" in the room makes it habitable.
(although bathrooms are traditionally not habitable IIRC)

Sorry if I'm not clear.

If you want to make a room habitable then you have to conform to all the
rules to make the room habitable. It also means when you market a house,
the room can be called a 'habitable' room [1].

I think we are talking at crossed purposes.

If you board out a loft space, leave it with a loft ladder, but install
a bed and make it a bedroom for a kid, then you are *treating* it as a
habitable room, and therefore it *should* meet the requirements for
habitable rooms. However those two facts are independent - just because
you are using it in a "habitable" way does not also mean it actually
meets the requirements.

If the room fails in some way, such as a ceiling being 25mm too low, or
access via a ladder then the room, by definition, is non habitable.

ISTR recall for lofts there is no actual minimum ceiling height[1]. Also
for loft conversions there are some relaxations on the stair
requirements, if there is only one habitable room. However that aside,
see my clarification above.

If someone then sleeps there, it's not relevant whether the room is
habitable or not. It only matters to Building Control and when you
market a property if you want to call the room habitable.

Indeed - if you construct a loft conversion that does not meet the
relevant building regulations you won't be able to sell it as a
"bedroom" (even if it looks like one). The best you could do is market
it as "storage", or alternatively if the non conformity was just
procedural (i.e. no building notice was submitted at the time of
conversion - but the work itself was in conformance with the rules in
effect at the time) you may be able to apply for a "regularisation"
after the event.

[1] Note its been a while since I did mine, so allow for changing rules etc:

http://internode.co.uk/loft/



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/03/2017 10:05, Handsome Jack wrote:
thescullster posted
On 16/03/2017 19:12, wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing a pull-down loft ladder with a proper
staircase and door. The loft would still only be used for storage, but
someone thought the presence of a staircase invoked a pile of Building
Regs requirements.
Can anyone clarify whether there are any rules around this?

If it was for your convenience and you did only use the room for
storage I don't see why it would matter.

As you would be providing a fixed opening into the loft, best to fit
smoke detectors at both ends of stair case for safety while up there.

The only issue that will arise when you come to sell the place is that
the room would have to be declared as storage use only.

As others have said, if you wanted to "convert" the space into a
habitable room, you would have to involve building regs and comply
with a raft of requirements - mostly reasonable ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than one
year after construction.

While generally true, there are two points to consider. The minor one,
is that if you "convert" the space but don't do it properly, then you
would not be able to sell the place as a converted property. So at best
you have added no value regardless of what you have spent, and at worst
may find it difficult to sell at a price that does not factor in the
cost of someone having to put right (or restore to original state) the
work done.

The second however is more important; and that is the building
regulations for loft conversions (especially on houses where the work
is, in effect, adding a third storey), are there for very good reasons.
Generally its very easy to inadvertently turn the house into a death
trap. Alas many people do this, then stick their children in the new
rooms that have no viable means of escape or adequate fire protection.



--
Cheers,

John.

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A bathroom or utility room aren't classed as habitable because it's highly
unlikely someone's going to sleep in them, if they did and got killed in a
house fire then tough titty.
Bedrooms, living rooms etc are habitable and covered by fire regs,
especially where a third floor is occupied (loft)

Brian Gaff wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of habitable. If you are
continually going there to put stuff up in the loft or bring it down
then to my mind its habitable. If you are not going to use it much
then why clutter the place with a permanent staircase all the time?
Brian

Handsome Jack wrote:
ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than one
year after construction.

Try telling that to a prospective buyer of the property.

"You don't need smoke alarms, fire doors etc or any strengthening of the
joists etc beacuse it's been up 12 months"

- Oh, OK, we'll just knock £40K off the asking price to get it up to
scratch then"

On 17/03/17 15:19, Phil L wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:
ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than one
year after construction.

Try telling that to a prospective buyer of the property.

"You don't need smoke alarms, fire doors etc or any strengthening of the
joists etc because it's been up 12 months"

"Yes I do because it's a condition of my insurers -


- Oh, OK, we'll just knock £40K off the asking price to get it up to
scratch then"




--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
A bathroom or utility room aren't classed as habitable because it's
highly unlikely someone's going to sleep in them, if they did and got
killed in a house fire then tough titty. Bedrooms, living rooms etc are
habitable and covered by fire regs, especially where a third floor is
occupied (loft)

I reckon if you installed a bathroom where an attic was on a second floor,
it would still need the access protected from fire in the same way.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
A bathroom or utility room aren't classed as habitable because it's
highly unlikely someone's going to sleep in them, if they did and got
killed in a house fire then tough titty. Bedrooms, living rooms etc
are habitable and covered by fire regs, especially where a third
floor is occupied (loft)

I reckon if you installed a bathroom where an attic was on a second
floor, it would still need the access protected from fire in the same
way.

Once a third floor is utilised, fire regs always take effect, unless, like
the OP, it's just for storage - no one is going to be up there for extended
periods

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/03/17 15:19, Phil L wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:
ones to be fair.

Breaches of LA building regulations are not enforceable more than
one year after construction.

Try telling that to a prospective buyer of the property.

"You don't need smoke alarms, fire doors etc or any strengthening of
the joists etc because it's been up 12 months"

"Yes I do because it's a condition of my insurers -


Hence the 40k in order to put it right.
It's not that difficult to get right at the outset, fire doors and frames,
with intumescent strips and extra mains powered smoke alarms, door closers
and a few other things aren't overly expensive. It's just a PITA once
completed to find that normal door frames won't take a 2 hour fire door so
they need to come out, which then involves plastering and christ-knows-what
else. This is why those with half a brain get caught out very easily, they
throw it up as cheap as possible and then imagine that they'll 'get it
right' if and when they decide to sell. - this is when it costs the same
again to put it right.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Rod Speed
writes
"NY" wrote in message news:uLWdnXf1mKPPZFfF

http://www.shawstairs.com/straight-s...h-plywood-trea
ds-sssss2-p-2001.html?gclid=CLe7mMTx29ICFWMz0wodNEsBAQ

Fark, I'd never have those in any house of mine, as you say, too much risk
of very serious injury if you fall down them.

Look at the first few seconds of this video for a practical application.

Sure, no argument about where it can be used, but IMO
its too unsafe given what can happen if the **** hits the fan.

Same in the loft too, too easy to not close the flap
and end up dead if you manage to walk into the hole.

Watch the rest of the video if you like old toy trains in the loft :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykap...ature=youtu.be