Hi

Sorry in advance that this is similar to many other posts. It just seemed
that there were so many variables that each case seemed to have a slightly
different answer.

I have a small roof space which I would like to use to store 'essential
junk' i.e. things that I will probably never use but just can't bring myself
to throw away!

At the moment, the insulation is all 'horizontal'. That is to say, there is
no insulation in the roof itself, it is all above the ceiling of the
upstairs rooms.
The roof is terracotta clay(?) tiles layed over a black waterproof sheet.

There are no header tanks.

Ideally, at the end, it would be lovely to have a space that was not too
damp. Temperature doesn't matter because none of the things to be stored are
heat or cold intollerent. A finness would be some suggestion of how the end
walls and/or roof inner might be covered to try to keep dust down a little.

It would be nice if the rest of the house was as warm as possible(!) so if
any suggestions of where insulation should best be would be fantastic too.

On a separate (but linked) theme. I think (?) that the cement 'fillets' that
complete the join between the roof tiles at the edge of the roof and the
adjoining wall between my house and the next (terrace house) has come away
slightly. I guess just though time as bits of the house have moved. It is
too scary to go outside onto the roof (5 floors up!) without getting
professional scafolding.
Is there anyway I could try to 'inject' something from the inside to fix the
problem? I wondered if expanding foam work? Failing that, has anyone had any
success in training squirels to apply a coat of tar based roofing paint over
such areas using their tails (and what is the RSPCA's view of this)

Sorry, I know I almost certainly havn't included enough info but I didn't
know what to put in and wanted to keep the message slightly more managable
than 'War and peace'

Thanks very very much in advance

Stephen

"news.aaisp.net.uk" NoSpam wrote in message
...
Hi

Sorry in advance that this is similar to many other posts. It just seemed
that there were so many variables that each case seemed to have a slightly
different answer.

I have a small roof space which I would like to use to store 'essential
junk' i.e. things that I will probably never use but just can't bring
myself
to throw away!

At the moment, the insulation is all 'horizontal'. That is to say, there
is
no insulation in the roof itself, it is all above the ceiling of the
upstairs rooms.
The roof is terracotta clay(?) tiles layed over a black waterproof sheet.

There are no header tanks.

Ideally, at the end, it would be lovely to have a space that was not too
damp. Temperature doesn't matter because none of the things to be stored
are
heat or cold intollerent. A finness would be some suggestion of how the
end
walls and/or roof inner might be covered to try to keep dust down a
little.

The muck of sixty years was a problem in our loft when we floored it. The
tiles had been back pointed and were sound but thee was no other protection
from the sky. I think the muck was largely fine mortar dust, it was
certainly heavy.

We saved expanded polystyrene sheets from packing, cut them into slabs and
fitted them between the wooden members holding the roof. They fitted so well
that they stayed up by themselves but eventually they were all covered with
large pieces of cardboard, again from packing. I thought it might get damp
but it hasn't. That was painted white so reflect light and help to find
things stored up there. It made quite a difference to the warmth of the
house, we thought (although we did no tests) even thought the floor of the
loft had already been heavily insulated.

... has anyone had any
success in training squirels to apply a coat of tar based roofing paint
over
such areas using their tails (and what is the RSPCA's view of this)

I don't think you can train squirrels to do anything they don't want to
:-( They're a menace in roof spaces ... and if they die in there and you
find it some time afterwards it's not pleasant to remove it ...

You can tell that's the voice of experience.

Mary

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
news.aaisp.net.uk NoSpam wrote:

Hi

Sorry in advance that this is similar to many other posts. It just
seemed that there were so many variables that each case seemed to
have a slightly different answer.

I have a small roof space which I would like to use to store
'essential junk' i.e. things that I will probably never use but just
can't bring myself to throw away!

At the moment, the insulation is all 'horizontal'. That is to say,
there is no insulation in the roof itself, it is all above the
ceiling of the upstairs rooms.

That's the right place for it - the more the merrier - anything up to 10" is
good.

The roof is terracotta clay(?) tiles layed over a black waterproof
sheet.

Presumably roofing felt. Fairly standard construction.

There are no header tanks.

Ideally, at the end, it would be lovely to have a space that was not
too damp. Temperature doesn't matter because none of the things to be
stored are heat or cold intollerent. A finness would be some
suggestion of how the end walls and/or roof inner might be covered to
try to keep dust down a little.

In order to keep it dry, it *must* be well ventilated. If getting rid of
dust impairs the ventilation, it's better to live with the dust.

It would be nice if the rest of the house was as warm as possible(!)
so if any suggestions of where insulation should best be would be
fantastic too.

Do you have cavity walls, and are they currently uninsulated? If so, getting
the cavities insulated should be a high priority. Double glazing is also
good, but has a longer payback period. If you are single glazed, at least
try to fix any drafts - as long as you still have *some* ventilation.

On a separate (but linked) theme. I think (?) that the cement
'fillets' that complete the join between the roof tiles at the edge
of the roof and the adjoining wall between my house and the next
(terrace house) has come away slightly.
Is there any way I could try to 'inject' something from the inside to
fix the problem?

I wouldn't worry about it - unless it allows rain and snow to blow in. As
above, ventilation is *good*.

With regard to storing stuff in the attic, what size are the ceiling joists,
and what is their maximum span? This will determine the maximum load that
can be stored on them. If you're proposing to board the area, you'll need to
find a way of supporting the boards well above the top of the joists, to
allow for plenty of insulation underneath. [You'll also need to take the
weight of the boards and their support structure into account when
considering the overall loading imposed on the joists.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Hi Mary,

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

We saved expanded polystyrene sheets from packing, cut them into slabs and
fitted them between the wooden members holding the roof. They fitted so
well
that they stayed up by themselves but eventually they were all covered
with
large pieces of cardboard, again from packing. I thought it might get damp
but it hasn't. That was painted white so reflect light and help to find
things stored up there. It made quite a difference to the warmth of the
house, we thought (although we did no tests) even thought the floor of the
loft had already been heavily insulated.

Thanks very much. That sounds like a great idea (and cheep too). Result!
How much space did you leave between the polystyrene and the roof
felt/tiles. I remember someone talking about needing 'sufficient'
ventilation for the timbers but I don't really know how much is enough.
Do you have any other ventilation to the outside or are there enough natural
'holes' in a roof to let air in (and moisture out)?

Stephen

Hi Set Square,

Do you have cavity walls, and are they currently uninsulated? If so,
getting
the cavities insulated should be a high priority. Double glazing is also
good, but has a longer payback period. If you are single glazed, at least
try to fix any drafts - as long as you still have *some* ventilation.

I don't think the walls are cavity but I havn't investigated anywhere. (They
are certainly pretty thin).
It is a listed building so double glazing isn't an option. There are
certainly plenty of drafts!

On a separate (but linked) theme. I think (?) that the cement
'fillets' that complete the join between the roof tiles at the edge
of the roof and the adjoining wall between my house and the next
(terrace house) has come away slightly.
Is there any way I could try to 'inject' something from the inside to
fix the problem?


I wouldn't worry about it - unless it allows rain and snow to blow in. As
above, ventilation is *good*.

In heavy rain, it does come through quite badly. This year has been worse
than most.
Possibly if I put a length of gutter along the wall on the inside to catch
the drips? And put this to a container which I will, of course, remember to
empty In a sense, the water would have dripped on the floor anyway so
anything that is caught is a bonus.

With regard to storing stuff in the attic, what size are the ceiling
joists,
and what is their maximum span? This will determine the maximum load that
can be stored on them. If you're proposing to board the area, you'll need
to
find a way of supporting the boards well above the top of the joists, to
allow for plenty of insulation underneath. [You'll also need to take the
weight of the boards and their support structure into account when
considering the overall loading imposed on the joists.

The joists are about 8" by 2" and (from memory) about 3 feet apart and span
approx 12 feet. I didn't do any calculations but just thought 'That looks
pretty strong'. I assume the insulation can go between the joists. Do I need
to leave any air gap between the insulation and the floor. If not, I guess
8" is close enough to 10" (insulation wise) to save alot of graft and floor
straight over the joists.

Thanks very much indeed for your advice

Stephen

"news.aaisp.net.uk" NoSpam wrote in message
...
Hi Mary,

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

We saved expanded polystyrene sheets from packing, cut them into slabs
and
fitted them between the wooden members holding the roof. They fitted so
well
that they stayed up by themselves but eventually they were all covered
with
large pieces of cardboard, again from packing. I thought it might get
damp
but it hasn't. That was painted white so reflect light and help to find
things stored up there. It made quite a difference to the warmth of the
house, we thought (although we did no tests) even thought the floor of
the
loft had already been heavily insulated.

Thanks very much. That sounds like a great idea (and cheep too). Result!
How much space did you leave between the polystyrene and the roof
felt/tiles.

It wasn't a fixed sized gap, it was determined by the thickness of the ep.
there was always *a* gap left though.

I remember someone talking about needing 'sufficient'
ventilation for the timbers but I don't really know how much is enough.

Oh, about the length of a piece of string, I imagine. There's always be
somebody who knows exactly how much is needed but since all lofts are
different I'd be suspicious of such deterministic rules.

Do you have any other ventilation to the outside or are there enough
natural
'holes' in a roof to let air in (and moisture out)?

In ours there seems to be sufficient ventilation because nothing is damp.

I forgot to say that the narrowest part of the eaves was also boarded in,
with the least used stored stuff behind and recorded on a computer which has
since died :-) Our heirs are going to have fun. all I can remember are three
small enlargers ... Again, that wasn't cabinet built, there were ahem
'natural' gaps between the panels.

I know that swifts, sparrows and starlings still nest under the eaves (which
we're happy about) but we seem to have solved the ingress of squirrels.

The cavity walls were insulted many years ago - if you haven't done that I
recommend it. The comfort factor is immediately obvious and well worth the
cost.

Mary

Stephen

Thanks very much again.
I will have to start hording polysyrene.

Stephen

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"news.aaisp.net.uk" NoSpam wrote in message
...
Hi Mary,

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

We saved expanded polystyrene sheets from packing, cut them into slabs
and
fitted them between the wooden members holding the roof. They fitted so
well
that they stayed up by themselves but eventually they were all covered
with
large pieces of cardboard, again from packing. I thought it might get
damp
but it hasn't. That was painted white so reflect light and help to find
things stored up there. It made quite a difference to the warmth of the
house, we thought (although we did no tests) even thought the floor of
the
loft had already been heavily insulated.

Thanks very much. That sounds like a great idea (and cheep too). Result!
How much space did you leave between the polystyrene and the roof
felt/tiles.

It wasn't a fixed sized gap, it was determined by the thickness of the ep.
there was always *a* gap left though.

I remember someone talking about needing 'sufficient'
ventilation for the timbers but I don't really know how much is enough.

Oh, about the length of a piece of string, I imagine. There's always be
somebody who knows exactly how much is needed but since all lofts are
different I'd be suspicious of such deterministic rules.

Do you have any other ventilation to the outside or are there enough
natural
'holes' in a roof to let air in (and moisture out)?

In ours there seems to be sufficient ventilation because nothing is damp.

I forgot to say that the narrowest part of the eaves was also boarded in,
with the least used stored stuff behind and recorded on a computer which
has
since died :-) Our heirs are going to have fun. all I can remember are
three
small enlargers ... Again, that wasn't cabinet built, there were ahem
'natural' gaps between the panels.

I know that swifts, sparrows and starlings still nest under the eaves
(which
we're happy about) but we seem to have solved the ingress of squirrels.

The cavity walls were insulted many years ago - if you haven't done that I
recommend it. The comfort factor is immediately obvious and well worth the
cost.

Mary

Stephen