I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:58:26 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard

Its worse than that, if (when) they close their server it will render
your Hive useless.
I built my own Smart thermostat
https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/709c3u
It's not perfect, but my mobile devices access it directly, no server
involved.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 15/02/17 12:23, Graham. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:58:26 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard

Its worse than that, if (when) they close their server it will render
your Hive useless.
I built my own Smart thermostat
https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/709c3u
It's not perfect, but my mobile devices access it directly, no server
involved.




HeatGenius can also function without a server too. I've been very
pleased with their system and it is way more advanced than any of the
others (in that it can control right down to individual rooms, though
you don't have to).

don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one is
home. versus letting the house get stone cold?

On 15/02/2017 22:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one is
home. versus letting the house get stone cold?

Exactly.
It's a classic example of scamming the gullible that have been
brainwashed into believing everything that comes through the
mind-control box is truth and must be obeyed to lead a "happy life"

A more believable and useful concept would be being able to control the
boiler temperature remotely not the room 'stat.... oh wait, that's
already possible, fully automated without human intervention it's called
"weather compensation"

On 17/02/2017 10:27, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 15/02/2017 22:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one is
home. versus letting the house get stone cold?

Exactly.
It's a classic example of scamming the gullible that have been
brainwashed into believing everything that comes through the
mind-control box is truth and must be obeyed to lead a "happy life"


That's a rather cynical view!

It's basic physics that you use less energy when the house is colder -
so there's no point in heating it when there's no-one there.

It *would* be a financial disaster if my holiday flat were heated all
the time - including the three weeks or so every month when it's unoccupied!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
news
On 15/02/2017 22:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one
is
home. versus letting the house get stone cold?

Exactly.
It's a classic example of scamming the gullible that have been
brainwashed into believing everything that comes through the
mind-control box is truth and must be obeyed to lead a "happy life"

A more believable and useful concept would be being able to control the
boiler temperature remotely not the room 'stat.... oh wait, that's
already possible, fully automated without human intervention it's called
"weather compensation"

It depends where the boiler is situated. Ours is outside. It has a frost
stat which prevents the water in the boiler from freezing but doesn't keep
the house warm enough for pipes not to freeze or fridges and deep freezes
not to stop working. For that you need a room stat, set to a suitable
temperature.

When we went away for several weeks over Christmas we set the room stat to
about 10 degrees. As far as we know, the heating never came on because the
house temp always remained above this, varying slightly depending on whether
there was any sun. The fact that we are the middle house of a terrace may
have helped - a bit of heat from the two houses wither side.

It was nice to get off the ship in Southampton, turn up the heating remotely
to 20 degrees, and have a nice warm house for when we got back several hours
later. Before Hive, we'd probably have left the heating on a higher
temperature so the house warmed up more quickly when we got back.

In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 15/02/2017 22:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one is
home. versus letting the house get stone cold?

Exactly.
It's a classic example of scamming the gullible that have been
brainwashed into believing everything that comes through the
mind-control box is truth and must be obeyed to lead a "happy life"

A more believable and useful concept would be being able to control the
boiler temperature remotely not the room 'stat.... oh wait, that's
already possible, fully automated without human intervention it's called
"weather compensation"

Wonder if those who pay 100 quid a year to rent the Hive system from BG
actually save 100 quid's worth of gas? Somehow, I doubt it.

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks for all the responses. I have decided to go with Hive as I am already changing my programmable wired thermostat for a wireless type, with the proposed one already coming in at £120+ I might as well go for the extra cost of the Hive self fit version and get the additional functionality. We already operate schedules on the the existing stat and for most instances of our lifestyle they do other than we occasionally boost by an extra hour if staying up late. It will add convenience to be able to either turn down or up the heating should plans change whilst we are out.

I have looked at the wiring arrangement for our combi boiler and the reciever and it is straight forward nothing that I can see justifying getting BG or approved installer in.

With regards Cat5e wiring round the house, at our last house we had a wired network where I could get under floorboards or utilise cupboards to route the wiring. One room due to having a part solid floor meant I had to resort to Powerline and i can say it worked very well, used for downloading to the Sky box. My SiL has been fitting CCTV using an NVR. He is using Powerline to connect the cameras to the NVR and provide power to the cameras using PoE so no mass of unsightly cables just one Cat 5e cable coming through the wall from the camera plugged into a Powerline unit in the nearest socket. The video feed is excellent.

Richard

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 13:28:51 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

Yes, I could have hours of fun. :-)

Another reason why I think IP controlled appliances could be useful.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.

Yes, there's nothing magic about a Hive. It's basically a temperature
sensor, a relay, and some wireless comms. it probably has a clock so it will
continue to free-run using the most recent program even if it loses contact
with the server. I dare say I could have worked out a spec and built it from
a kit of parts. But it's a lot of hassle and my soldering skills are very
rusty (if that's the right word to describe non-ferrous solder!). The last
time I tried to solder something was when I was making up a lead to attach
some speakers to an Amazon Dot (mini-Echo) which has a 3.5 mm socket. I must
have overheated one of the tags on the 3.5 mm plug because although there
was a perfect contact from it to the far end of the cable, there was
variable resistance and intermittent no contact between one of the tags and
the tip or collar of the plug. Pretty crap design if normal soldering heat
can break down connections within a plug. Modern lead-free solder (*) that
melts at a higher temperature doesn't help :-(


(*) Somewhat akin to pork-free pigs or alcohol-free beer :-)

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.

Spot on.

"Tony the pony" wrote in message
web.com...

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I
remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that
might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.

Spot on.

most people don't have the skills to "make one" from basic components

a valid comparison is how much it cost to make the same functionality from
other finished products

If indeed that's even possible

(please don't interpret that as support for these new fangled systems, it's
not)

tim

On 15/02/2017 15:47, Graham. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I
would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for
some smarter technology to emerge?

Like all these things, I think about how I'd use it if I had it. Going on
the adverts.

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I remember
to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot water? If I
were concerned about the running costs that much, I'd probably have a
combi.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that might
be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is a good
thing why not do it automatically?

Oh - I'm single. In the average family, would it really be a good idea
having someone who is out of the house messing with things while others
are in?

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.


Do you mean this:

http://www.hestiapi.com/product/hest...er-kit-no-case

Well, obviously not! How did you manage to make it for £10?

--
Cheers, Rob

For the £10 it cost to build, mine was worth it just as an object
lesson to show people why they don't need one, and to **** off those I
know who have forked out £££ on Hive's and Nest's.


Do you mean this:

http://www.hestiapi.com/product/hest...er-kit-no-case

Well, obviously not! How did you manage to make it for £10?

Yes indeed, that, although I elected to use a Pi Zero and an external
wallwart to save space.

Ok you're right I have underestimated the cost, but not by as much as
you'd think.

pi zero + 8GB micro sd card and unavoidable shipping from pimoroni.com
£13

The rest from Ebay free shipping in all cases

1602 LCD display
£1.38

wifi dongle
£1.33

2 channel relay board
99p

Dallas DS18B20 temp sensor 99p, but that was a pack of two so
50p

Prototype board £2.35, but that was a pack of 10 so
24p

male & female header strip pairs £1.75 but that was ten pairs and I
needed two so
35p

Tact switches 99p but that was a bag of 20, four needed so
20p

Total
£17.99 Pinched the plastic food box from SWMBO so that doesn't
count.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:23:32 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Turn on the hot water? I do have a storage system. Which like all takes
some time to heat. Which would be better - leaving it off until I
remember to turn it on when out? And if I forget, come home to no hot
water?

When the mechanical time switch stopped working I didn't bother
replacing it until I put the place on the market. The stored hot
water only took 20 mins to heat from cold and would last a couple of
days.

Turn the central heating up or down? My system already does that for
different times of the day. And will adjust if it suddenly gets cold
outside - don't they all?

The place above had an ordinary room stat to maintain the
temperature. Worked well enough. We have programable stats now
comfort is better and temeprature control better (minimal under/over
shoot)

Turn a light on when I'm out? Why would it suddenly occur to me that
might be a good idea and why? If you think a light on when you're out is
a good thing why not do it automatically?

Or leave it on when you go out. The only light that could be useful
to switch on remotely is the exterior one but that only needs to be
done when arriving back home at night. Ideally that would be
automagic, perhaps by detecting when a persons phone connects via
Bluetooth to a controller.

Can't use WiFi as that is switched off when out and about and don't
have GPS enabled unless I need it (which isn't very often).

--
Cheers
Dave.

Tricky Dicky wrote:

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with
your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for
other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable
in the future?

My parents had a Hive 'stat fitted with a new boiler from BG (I did urge
them to compare with others, but dad being ex-gas board didn't want to).

Recently I keep hearing adverts on the radio for

"Hive active heating only £9/month"

and meaning to ask if they're being charged that, because I know he
hasn't even installed the Hive app on this phone.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky wrote:

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with
your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for
other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable
in the future?

My parents had a Hive 'stat fitted with a new boiler from BG (I did urge
them to compare with others, but dad being ex-gas board didn't want to).

Recently I keep hearing adverts on the radio for

"Hive active heating only £9/month"

and meaning to ask if they're being charged that, because I know he hasn't
even installed the Hive app on this phone.

Evidently he bought the subscription package rather than the
purchase-outright version of Hive. We got one on Amazon Black Friday (I
think) for a significant reduction in price. I fitted it myself because our
heating engineer, who was coming to service the boiler at around that time,
didn't feel confident (fear of the unknown) so he was interested to hear how
I'd got on, to see whether it was something he could offer as a service to
his other customers. It was probably the internet side of things rather than
the mains-wiring side of things that was unknown territory for him.

I really *must* get round to shorting-out and removing the old thermostat
which is no longer needed and which is now set to an arbitrarily high
temperature so it is always calling for heat and leaves the control of the
boiler entirely to Hive.

On 15/02/2017 11:58, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?


Pretty easy IME - if your present thermostat has a power feed.

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?


No ongoing costs. As others have said, if BT block access to their
internet side of things, it could then become a subscription service. I
would doubt that'll happen. I've got a £20 web cam that I've had for
years that gives just the same thing - so I can't think the marginal
costs to BT are great. And if they did, their name in the IoT would be
mud(dier) and I'm sure someone would work out a way around it.

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?


I suppose it could be pretentious if you flash it round your mates :-)

The only downsides I've noticed so far a

* The thermostat needs to be prodded to show status - otherwise it's a
blank and rather bulky box;

* You do need to site the hub and it needs to be in range of each
router. And there's also a stat receiver (goes in place of your old stat).

* I've not measured the electricity consumption, but I did look into it,
and was led to believe it's low - maybe 4 units (~50p) a year.

I work irregular hours, can't be arsed to set/reset a programmable stat
for a schedule I can't rely on, and gain a certain amount of amusement.
I could easily live with out it but I'm lucky enough to have a choice.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:09:05 +0000, RJH wrote:

* You do need to site the hub and it needs to be in range of each
router. And there's also a stat receiver (goes in place of your old
stat).

Can some one translate that into what a real system consists of?

* I've not measured the electricity consumption, but I did look into it,
and was led to believe it's low - maybe 4 units (~50p) a year.

4 units/year is only 0.5 W, that is very low. 5W, if carefully
engineered, would be more realistic.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 15/02/2017 17:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:09:05 +0000, RJH wrote:

* You do need to site the hub and it needs to be in range of each
router. And there's also a stat receiver (goes in place of your old
stat).

Can some one translate that into what a real system consists of?


There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

The hub connects to an internet router by means of an ethernet cable,
and talks to Hive's remote server - enabling remote control by a
smartphone or computer app - which also talk to Hive's server.

The receiver connects into the heating system in place of an existing
programmer and room stat.

The thermostat is battery powered and behaves much like any other
wireless programmable thermostat.

The 3 components talk to each other using some wireless protocol, or
other - but not WiFi.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:50:33 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

Ta, all seems a bit complicated. I guess the hub is not integrated
with the receiver as running an ethernet cable is "too difficult" for
the majority these days.

The 3 components talk to each other using some wireless protocol, or
other - but not WiFi.

Probably the normal wireless stat (and hundreds of other things) on
433 MHz(?) the stat only has to signal "Hi it's me, switch [on |
off]", probably to the hub so it can tell the remote server and the
local control switch (receiver) the expected system state.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

the stat only has to signal "Hi it's me, switch [on | off]"

I think it sends continual temperature readings to the hub, which I
gather can show you the historical readings via a web interface (could
be the webserver is a central BG one, rather than in the hub)

probably to the hub so it can tell the remote server and the
local control switch (receiver) the expected system state.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

Ta, all seems a bit complicated. I guess the hub is not integrated
with the receiver as running an ethernet cable is "too difficult" for
the majority these days.

Yes - it would involve drilling holes through walls and floors/ceilings to
take it from one room (the one with the boiler wiring to the former time
switch) to another (the one with the router). I imagine most people (me
included) would opt for Homeplug to convey Ethernet from one to the other,
to make use of pre-existing house wiring - the ring mains.

Likewise for fitting a telephone socket in the bedroom where the router is -
if I wanted a clean, non-filtered line (with the internal phone extensions
changed from the unlfitered to filtered side of the faceplate) I'd need to
drill holes through the internal and external walls, run exterior-spec Cat 5
along the outside of the house and then drill another set of holes in
through the bedroom wall - or else run the wiring along the edge of the
carpet and up the corner of the living room (where it would be least
conspicuous, though it may still not pass the Wife Acceptance Test) and the
through the living room ceiling and the bedroom floor, trying to drill the
holes as close to the corner as possible to avoid the cable having to do a
dog-leg. All the holes would have to be big enough to take an RJ45 plug
because I don't fancy the hassle of trying to attach one to bare ends of all
the cores in Cat 5 - I tried it once, having bought a special crimping tool,
and I wasted five plugs (and a shortened the cable a bit each time) trying
to get a good connection.

Telephone cable is thin enough to push down the edge of carpets and under
the metal strip in each doorway, and then up the side to he stairs, but Cat
5 is a bit too thick for that.


The 3 components talk to each other using some wireless protocol, or
other - but not WiFi.

Probably the normal wireless stat (and hundreds of other things) on
433 MHz(?) the stat only has to signal "Hi it's me, switch [on |
off]", probably to the hub so it can tell the remote server and the
local control switch (receiver) the expected system state.

Yes I imagine it's 433 MHz wireless, as for the connection between my
weather station base unit and the sensor unit in the garden.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:50:33 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

Ta, all seems a bit complicated. I guess the hub is not integrated
with the receiver as running an ethernet cable is "too difficult" for
the majority these days.

people don't like messy cables running around their walls

tim

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2017 17:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:09:05 +0000, RJH wrote:

* You do need to site the hub and it needs to be in range of each
router. And there's also a stat receiver (goes in place of your old
stat).

Can some one translate that into what a real system consists of?


There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

The hub connects to an internet router by means of an ethernet cable, and
talks to Hive's remote server - enabling remote control by a smartphone or
computer app - which also talk to Hive's server.

The receiver connects into the heating system in place of an existing
programmer and room stat.

The thermostat is battery powered and behaves much like any other wireless
programmable thermostat.

why do they have to make it so complicated

why can't they put the heating controller inside the thermostat box and
simply put it in place of the current thermostat?

tim

"tim..." wrote in message
news
why can't they put the heating controller inside the thermostat box and
simply put it in place of the current thermostat?

That would be a good idea. Short out the timer contacts rather than shorting
out the thermostat contacts.

The only problem is for people like us who have a second controlled
circuit - for hot water. Although we have a combi boiler which could be left
permanently on, with the boiler only being switched on when a tap was
opened, out boiler also pre-heats some water which is kept within the boiler
housing, to give instant hot water while the boiler is heating fresh water
from the rising main, and we would not want that tank to be kept hot (with
consequent switching on and off of the boiler) 24/7. So that functionality
was also controlled by the same timer (though different programs) as the
central heating system.

Therefore we needed a dual-circuit Hive and so a Hive at the room thermostat
would not be able to control the hot water system because there would not be
any wiring.

Although three boxes (thermostat, hub and receiver) seems OTT, I don't think
there is any way of reducing the box count without layiung of additional
cables between receiver and thermostat and/or router.

On 16/02/2017 18:54, tim... wrote:


"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 15/02/2017 17:33, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:09:05 +0000, RJH wrote:

* You do need to site the hub and it needs to be in range of each
router. And there's also a stat receiver (goes in place of your old
stat).

Can some one translate that into what a real system consists of?


There are 3 components in a Hive system - a hub, a receiver and a
thermostat.

The hub connects to an internet router by means of an ethernet cable,
and talks to Hive's remote server - enabling remote control by a
smartphone or computer app - which also talk to Hive's server.

The receiver connects into the heating system in place of an existing
programmer and room stat.

The thermostat is battery powered and behaves much like any other
wireless programmable thermostat.

why do they have to make it so complicated

why can't they put the heating controller inside the thermostat box and
simply put it in place of the current thermostat?

tim



There are a few problems with that.

The receiver needs a minimum of permanent live, switched live and
neutral. Depending on what sort of thermostat you're replacing, you may
or may not have all of those. You *certainly* won't have any hot water
control wires in your room stat so, if you want the Hive to control the
heating of your stored hot water, you can't simply replace the room stat
with the receiver.

The receiver is designed to replace an existing programmer and, with any
luck, will fit onto the existing programmer's wall plate without
requiring any re-wiring (except for linking out the room stat). The
existing programmer is effectively made redundant by the Hive. If you
keep it, you'll have to set both channels (if also controlling water) to
permanently on rather than timed - and it will be consuming (a small
amount of) electricity unnecessarily.

In any event, Hive's thermostat is wireless - so you don't necessarily
have to site it where the room stat was. You can even move it from room
to room if you wish (if you buy the optional stand, or make your own).

Another consideration is that Hive can automate other things besides the
heating - lights and power points, etc. For that, you need the hub and
the appropriate accessories. So if the hub were integral with the
receiver and/or thermostat - as suggested by some - that wouldn't be any
use for people who wanted to use Hive just to automate non-heating
equipment.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

* The thermostat needs to be prodded to show status - otherwise it's a
blank and rather bulky box;

That's because the Hive thermostat is completely wireless and relies
on internal battery power.

The designer of my home-made one also decided to turn the back-light
off after half a minute for no logical reason as it's mains powered. I
modified mine to dim the display rather than blank it.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 15/02/2017 11:58, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard


I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter (I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

I already have a wireless programmable stat and, in theory, I could use
its holiday mode to turn the heating on just before my next planned
visit - but the problem with that is that my plans sometimes change!

As far as I can see, it's pretty simple to install. The only wiring you
need to do is to connect the receiver to your boiler and/or motorised
valves, depending on your system configuration. If you understand your
system well enough to install a wireless thermostat, you certainly
shouldn't have any trouble with installing a Hive receiver. If you're
lucky, you may have to do virtually no wiring. If you currently have a
programmer/timer which uses an industry-standard wall-plate, the Hive
receiver may plug into the existing wall plate in place of the old
programmer - with the only wiring necessary being to link out any
existing room stat. But you'd need to identify all the wires, of course
in order to confirm that.

The other part of the installation involves connecting the hub to a
spare port on your internet router, and providing it with a mains supply.

The thermostat unit, with its knob, buttons and display screen is
wireless, but is intended to hang on a wall. If you want to move it from
room to room, you can buy a stand for it - at an iniquitous price of
nearly 30 quid. I think I would make my own stand!

You are probably aware that the current model is the Hive 2 and that it
comes in two versions - heating only or heating plus hot water. Screwfix
have recently been selling the earlier version off for about 50 quid -
don't know whether they still have any. The old version is functionally
similar, except that the thermostat unit is much less sexy. Its hub also
has the disadvantage that it may not recover from a power cut - making
it useless if you are relying on remote access. This is because, when
the hub is turned on, it expects an internet connection to be there, and
gives up if there isn't one. After a power cut, it's likely to look for
a connection before the router has finished re-booting. The later hubs -
supplied with Hive 2 - are programmed to make multiple attempts to
connect to the internet and thus shouldn't suffer from this problem.

If you buy the self-install version, there are no ongoing costs. Access
to the app and to the remote server are free. I am assured by Hive that
they will provide free "lifetime" support. This slightly begs the
question as to whose lifetime, but they assure me that it is an ongoing
thing, and not just until that model is no longer sold.

My other concern is future-proofing. The hive is simply a switching
device. If you have a modulating boiler and want to be able to control
flow temperature, it can't do that. Hive are being a bit cagey about
whether they plan to add that capability - for obvious commercial
reasons, I guess. My boiler is pretty basic - so I don't need any
modulation control at present, but I may do in future if and when I
replace the boiler.

AIUI, the Nest already has the ability to control modulation - but its
other functions seem too clever by half to me, and I would would want to
maintain more control over the system than it appears to allow.

Is it worth having? I guess that depends on how important remote control
is to you. If you know when you're going to be in and out and away from
home, a programmable stat with a holiday mode is probably adequate - but
if your plans are flexible and you want to be able to come home to a
warm house at unpredictable times without using energy unnecessarily,
then it could come into its own.

I have had a lengthy dialogue with Hive - via the Screwfix site - to try
to bottom out some of these issues. If you go to
http://www.screwfix.com/p/hive-activ...ermostat/5215j
and click on 'View all Q & A' you can see my questions and their answers.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter (I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

Hmm. If I had a holiday flat which was unoccupied other than when I used
it, I'd turn off things like water and electricity when not there.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/02/2017 00:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter (I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

Hmm. If I had a holiday flat which was unoccupied other than when I used
it, I'd turn off things like water and electricity when not there.


I do indeed turn the water off, but not the electricity because there's
a fridge/freezer with food in it. The flat is in a converted house, the
rest of which is occupied - so the areas above and below are heated for
most of the time.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 16/02/2017 09:03, Roger Mills wrote:
On 16/02/2017 00:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter (I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

Hmm. If I had a holiday flat which was unoccupied other than when I used
it, I'd turn off things like water and electricity when not there.


I do indeed turn the water off, but not the electricity because there's
a fridge/freezer with food in it. The flat is in a converted house, the
rest of which is occupied - so the areas above and below are heated for
most of the time.

My parents new insurance policy for their holiday flat requires the
water to be turned off and the heating to be left on at 10 deg when the
place is unoccupied.

I fitted them a Surestop remote switch (the stop tap is under the sink
behind the usual crap). They are delighted with it.

My next job there is to add a second SKY TV cable. That means I have to
go up a ladder to the same hight as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ_VU3Fb33k


I am not looking forward to fitting that.

--

Adam

On 19/02/2017 10:43, ARW wrote:
On 16/02/2017 09:03, Roger Mills wrote:
On 16/02/2017 00:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter
(I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to
heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

Hmm. If I had a holiday flat which was unoccupied other than when I used
it, I'd turn off things like water and electricity when not there.


I do indeed turn the water off, but not the electricity because there's
a fridge/freezer with food in it. The flat is in a converted house, the
rest of which is occupied - so the areas above and below are heated for
most of the time.

My parents new insurance policy for their holiday flat requires the
water to be turned off and the heating to be left on at 10 deg when the
place is unoccupied.


My insurance company tried that on for a year or two, but they've now
relented - presumably because it lost them too much business. Now they
simply require the water to be turned off when the flat is unoccupied
between November and March.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 16/02/2017 00:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I don't yet have any direct experience, but I've been researching it
with a view to installing a Hive system in my holiday flat. It would
have the advantage for me that, when I visit the flat in the winter (I'm
there now) I could turn on the heating remotely a few hours before
arriving rather than coming into a very cold place and having to heat it
from scratch. Since I have a stored hot water system, I could turn that
on remotely, too, but that's less important.

Hmm. If I had a holiday flat which was unoccupied other than when I used
it, I'd turn off things like water and electricity when not there.


Turning the electricity off would of course stop the heating (even if
only using a frost stat to control it) from working!

--
Adam

On 15/02/2017 11:58, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard


I have a Heatmiser Smartstat. It uses a separate thermometer connected
to it by a cable. It is mains powered and turns the boiler off and on to
keep the room with the thermometer at the correct temperature. There can
be up to 4 temp changes per day.

I can control it using an Android mobile phone app, and a 64bit Windows
PC running Google Chrome Arc Welder.

The main reason for having it was that I wanted the remote control.

The connection to it must rely on a Heatmiser server somewhere. If the
server stopped I would loose the remote control. It is a pity that there
is no web interface.

The biggest problem with the installation was running the cables neatly.
I happened to get lucky.

--
Michael Chare

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:58:26 -0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard

What is the point of this technology? Set your thermostat to the temperature you like, then never touch it again.

--
101 Dalmatians and Peter Pan are the only two Disney animated features in which both the parents are present and don't die throughout the movie.

On 15/02/17 11:58, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wireless type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper than the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the system and can answer a few questions.

Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dire warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified installer. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?

Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your phone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than your phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?

Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I would be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some smarter technology to emerge?

Richard


While I'm a self confessed lover of 'gadgets' I'm wary of things like
this. It isn't that I don't trust them, I'm sure they can be made
reliable if they incorporate 'fall safe' systems. My concern is the
changes in technology and finding you have a system that, when something
fails, you need to totally replace, because the overall technology has
been superseded.

I'd be more tempted to look at what you want, or think you need, to
control, and look for self contained 'low tech' ways to do it which are
independent. For example. Do you really need to be able to control you
central heating remotely? What is wrong with a simple timer or timed
thermostat? Ditto for lights. A simple timer is all that is needed. Ok,
once in a while you may be home early/late and the heating isn't on or
it has been on a bit when it wasn't needed but is that a big deal?

A neighbour can control his lights, even to the point of the colour, via
his phone from the train. Wonderful. When he first had the system
installed I noticed his lights sometimes came on in 'funny colours'
around 'home time'. I don't see it now. Perhaps I don't notice it.
Perhaps it has broken. Perhaps the novelty has worn off. Perhaps his
wife, who is at home during the day as far as I know, didn't like it.