Hi friends,

Having used this group for a number of years, I'm hopeful that someone will be able and kind enough to advise on this:

For my house, I have external, old-style pre-payment gas & electric token meters. So to top up, I drive to a local shop to get my key/card credited with £X amount.

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case? Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this impractical?

One other reason I'm thinking of installing smart meters is that I hope they are thinner than the existing meters! The plastic cabinets in which my existing meters are housed, stick out from the wall by about 10", partially obstructing the pathway to my front door. Can anyone tell me the approximate thickness of the new smart meters, i.e., how much the project from their mounting boards? I don't want to go the expense of having the meters sunk into the wall, but can I use cabinets that are shallower than the ubiquitous bog-standard ones?

Many thanks if you can advise on either of the above.

Al_n

On Saturday, 28 January 2017 12:49:24 UTC, wrote:
I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using
a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking
of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants
during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity
they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case?
Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using
their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this
impractical?

Changing to credit meters would almost certainly give you significantly cheaper electricity.

Topping up token meters usually has a minimum amount and this is probably the same with smart meters. if a tenant only uses £1.50 of lecky he won't want to top up a fiver's worth. There might also be issues with giving tenants access to your utility accounts - suppose one closed your account and got your balance refunded to them?

If you had smart meters with online account management you could check the use at the start and end of each let, and work out what each tenant owed, and deduct it from the deposit.

Or you could use a private submeter (which must be MID or Ofgem approved) and charge from that.

With most holiday lets you (or someone) would do a changeover visit to change bedding / clean / handover keys etc so could read the meters at that time.

Owain

Funnily enough I was asked the other day whether in the future contactless
credit and debit cards could be used for suck things
at present its restricted to 30 quid a transaction, but wondered how often
transactions could be made or perhaps on different cards. That way you would
not need to give anyone access to the account at all.
Brian

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wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 28 January 2017 12:49:24 UTC, wrote:
I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using
a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking
of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants
during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity
they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case?
Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using
their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this
impractical?

Changing to credit meters would almost certainly give you significantly
cheaper electricity.

Topping up token meters usually has a minimum amount and this is probably
the same with smart meters. if a tenant only uses £1.50 of lecky he won't
want to top up a fiver's worth. There might also be issues with giving
tenants access to your utility accounts - suppose one closed your account
and got your balance refunded to them?

If you had smart meters with online account management you could check the
use at the start and end of each let, and work out what each tenant owed,
and deduct it from the deposit.

Or you could use a private submeter (which must be MID or Ofgem approved)
and charge from that.

With most holiday lets you (or someone) would do a changeover visit to
change bedding / clean / handover keys etc so could read the meters at that
time.

Owain

On 28/01/2017 12:49, wrote:

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case? Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this impractical?

If you're doing holiday lets, include electricity/gas in the price -
it's not worth the hassle of doing anything else. People won't notice a
fiver on the cost of the let, they will notice the arse-ache of having
to feed a meter, coins or digital.

wrote in message
...
Hi friends,

Having used this group for a number of years, I'm hopeful that someone
will be able and kind enough to advise on this:

For my house, I have external, old-style pre-payment gas & electric token
meters. So to top up, I drive to a local shop to get my key/card credited
with £X amount.

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a
mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of
letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during the
summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they use.
Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case?

apart from it looking mean in a property you are charging 800 per week for,
you mean?

tim

Brian Gaff wrote

Funnily enough I was asked the other day whether in the future contactless
credit and debit cards could be used for suck things

Corse they can, and not just in the future either,
used right now with vending machines.

at present its restricted to 30 quid a transaction,

Nope. You just need to supply the PIN over that
and there is no point of that when the phone has
a fingerprint sensor.

but wondered how often transactions could be made

As often as you like.

or perhaps on different cards.

Yep, pay with ApplePay, AndroidPay or SamsungPay.

That way you would not need to give anyone access to the account at all.

Yep, just like using a vending machine.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 28 January 2017 12:49:24 UTC, wrote:
I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using
a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking
of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants
during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity
they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case?
Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using
their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this
impractical?

Changing to credit meters would almost certainly give you significantly
cheaper electricity.

Topping up token meters usually has a minimum amount and this is probably
the same with smart meters. if a tenant only uses £1.50 of lecky he won't
want to top up a fiver's worth. There might also be issues with giving
tenants access to your utility accounts - suppose one closed your account
and got your balance refunded to them?

If you had smart meters with online account management you could check the
use at the start and end of each let, and work out what each tenant owed,
and deduct it from the deposit.

Or you could use a private submeter (which must be MID or Ofgem approved)
and charge from that.

With most holiday lets you (or someone) would do a changeover visit to
change bedding / clean / handover keys etc so could read the meters at
that time.

On 28/01/2017 12:49, wrote:
Hi friends,

Having used this group for a number of years, I'm hopeful that someone will be able and kind enough to advise on this:

For my house, I have external, old-style pre-payment gas & electric token meters. So to top up, I drive to a local shop to get my key/card credited with £X amount.

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case? Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this impractical?

One other reason I'm thinking of installing smart meters is that I hope they are thinner than the existing meters! The plastic cabinets in which my existing meters are housed, stick out from the wall by about 10", partially obstructing the pathway to my front door. Can anyone tell me the approximate thickness of the new smart meters, i.e., how much the project from their mounting boards? I don't want to go the expense of having the meters sunk into the wall, but can I use cabinets that are shallower than the ubiquitous bog-standard ones?

Many thanks if you can advise on either of the above.

Al_n


I have rented a holiday cottage where I had to read the meter and then
leave a cheque to cover the cost of the electricity I used. We used
more than most tenants.

Any kind of prepayment would annoy me, as I could not be sure what I
would use.

The property was rented via Menai Holiday Cottages who could advise on
what most renters do.


--
Michael Chare

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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 17:10:04 +0000, Clive George wrote:

If you're doing holiday lets, include electricity/gas in the price -
it's not worth the hassle of doing anything else. People won't notice a
fiver on the cost of the let, they will notice the arse-ache of having
to feed a meter, coins or digital.

Agreed. Most people aren't used to meter feeding so the first they'll
really notice is when the power/gas goes off. Even if you have it in
small words and big letters on the first page of the Letting
Agreement. Then you'll get the panic phone call at 0200 and what are
you going to do about it...

From the POV of renting the property, prepay would annoy me as those
tariffs are invariably higher than standard, let alone the "deals"
you can get(*). Not being used to prepayent I'd be fretting about
feeding the meters rather than enjoying the holiday.

(*) If you can switch to a bog standard credit meter I think you'd
make significant saving over prepayment. We have nPower's standard DD
tariff, 16p/unit no standing charge. Just looked at nPower's Pre Pay
Fixed March '18 30p/day standing charge and 14p/unit, 110 quid
standing charge buys and awful lot of lecky that is only 2p/unit more
(15 units/day v the average households 9 units/day). That's against a
standard tariff a "deal" would almost ceratinly be better. And you
get rid of the hassle of topping up. How far is that drive to the
shops? The real cost of running a car is around 40p/mile (fuel, tax,
insurance, maintenace, depreciation)..

You do need to know what your useage is and a spreadsheet makes the
number crunching pain free. The only real way to know which tariff is
best is to work out what a years bill would be for each one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 12:49:24 PM UTC, wrote:
Hi friends,

Having used this group for a number of years, I'm hopeful that someone will be able and kind enough to advise on this:

For my house, I have external, old-style pre-payment gas & electric token meters. So to top up, I drive to a local shop to get my key/card credited with £X amount.

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case? Is it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this impractical?

One other reason I'm thinking of installing smart meters is that I hope they are thinner than the existing meters! The plastic cabinets in which my existing meters are housed, stick out from the wall by about 10", partially obstructing the pathway to my front door. Can anyone tell me the approximate thickness of the new smart meters, i.e., how much the project from their mounting boards? I don't want to go the expense of having the meters sunk into the wall, but can I use cabinets that are shallower than the ubiquitous bog-standard ones?

Many thanks if you can advise on either of the above.

Al_n

Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions. Actually with the duel fuel tarrif I'm on, (Ebico?) prepay is no more expensive than a credit account, However I get the point made by a couple of you that making the holiday tenant have to faff around topping up does seem niggardly, when the weekly rent is going to be high. That's a good point. Deducting the cost from their deposit or including it in the rent seems a more equitable option, now you mention it. Thanks!

Al_n

On 28/01/2017 17:10, Clive George wrote:
On 28/01/2017 12:49, wrote:

I gather that if I had smart meters installed, I could top up using a
mobile phone, which sounds more convenient. However, I am thinking of
letting my house out to successive short-term holiday tenants during
the summer, and want the tenants to pay for the gas & electricity they
use. Would switching to smart meters still make sense in this case? Is
it easy to enable the tenant to top up the gas & electricity using
their own phone and bank account - or are there obstacles making this
impractical?

If you're doing holiday lets, include electricity/gas in the price -
it's not worth the hassle of doing anything else. People won't notice a
fiver on the cost of the let, they will notice the arse-ache of having
to feed a meter, coins or digital.

Agreed. I frequently use holiday lettings in the UK and will try to
avoid pre-pay meters because they're a pain in the arse. I'd happily pay
more in the initial cost just to avoid the ****ing about.

On Saturday, 28 January 2017 12:49:24 UTC, wrote:
I don't want to go the expense of having the meters sunk into the wall,
but can I use cabinets that are shallower than the ubiquitous bog-standard
ones?

No, because any slimlime meters now could be replaced by thicker ones later. They're usually not much if any thicker than the service fuse anyway.

For gas they're unlikely to get any slimmer anyway due to physical characteristics the measuring device.

Owain

On Wednesday, 1 February 2017 09:13:11 UTC, wrote:
However I get the point made by a couple of you that making the
holiday tenant have to faff around topping up does seem niggardly,
when the weekly rent is going to be high. That's a good point.
Deducting the cost from their deposit or including it in the
rent seems a more equitable option, now you mention it. Thanks!

If this is a summer let there shouldn't be much heating used. Consider 1 or 2 hour 'boost' switches for the heating and hot water so it can't be left on continuously and forgotten. They're also easy for tenants to understand - "press this one hour before you want a bath, the water will stay warm for the rest of the day if it's not used."

Depending on the market you could put the washing machine / tumble dryer on a coin meter and advertise the property as heating/hot water included, laundry extra. Outdoorsy/sporty people might do a an unexpected lot of washing and drying.

Charging for "laundry" means you can charge at a profit; reselling gas/lecky you can only recharge what you pay and what the tenant accurately uses.

Owain