Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?

On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?


No but they are very common.
The switch has to go to one side of the cooker so the cable to the
connection unit is frequently run straight between them.

On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?


No they aren't. Get them back to do it correctly.

On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?

No, all concealed cable runs should be either inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of corner or wall to ceiling transition.

See :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/12/2016 20:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm
cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight
through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen
upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?

No, all concealed cable runs should be either inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of corner or wall to ceiling transition.

See :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

On a cooker, because the cooker switch must be placed a lateral distance
away from the stove, I used a dummy box with cover under the work-surface.

It seems that the dummy box wasn't required as the horizontal and
vertical zones were covered by the outlet in one case, and the switch in
the other.

On 11/12/16 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?


No.

Firstly, did the electrician run that particular cable as part of the
upgrade.

Second - is the cable in a 150mm zone from the vertical corner of the
wall or in any other way contained within a permitted zone created by
the horizontal/vertical "shadows" from any other accessory?

Clearly the bit of cable you found is within the zone created by the socket.

But does it look like it then leaves that zone? I guess so as you said
"diagonal" but I'd like to be sure. Picture would help.


If it is a bad install, find the electrician and report him to his
professional body. Tell the body you want them to come and look (so
don't cover it up). Assuming this is a breach of regs, I've got no time
for dealing direct and asking for it to be put right - this is shoddy,
irregular and needs reporting. Who knows what else he's short cutting?

On 11/12/16 21:33, Fredxxx wrote:

It seems that the dummy box wasn't required as the horizontal and
vertical zones were covered by the outlet in one case, and the switch in
the other.

I ran down, then 90 degrees horizontally into the flex plate.

No reason, nor excuse for doing it any other way.

On 11/12/2016 21:33, Fredxxx wrote:
On 11/12/2016 20:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm
cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight
through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen
upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?

No, all concealed cable runs should be either inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of corner or wall to ceiling transition.

See :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

On a cooker, because the cooker switch must be placed a lateral distance
away from the stove, I used a dummy box with cover under the work-surface.

It seems that the dummy box wasn't required as the horizontal and
vertical zones were covered by the outlet in one case, and the switch in
the other.


Indeed, the switch and the flex outlet both create allowable horizontal
and vertical routes - and they will intersect at some point - so there
is no need for diagonal runs.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/12/2016 01:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/12/2016 21:33, Fredxxx wrote:
On 11/12/2016 20:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/12/2016 19:07, Larry wrote:


Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away
from
existing double socket
Carefully removed plaster next to double socket - all clear.
Marked the position of new backbox for fused switch.
Drilled a honeycomb of holes where back box to go.
When I started chipping plaster out - I found that a diagonal 6mm
cable for the
cooker ran straight through where the box was to go.
I had actually drilled through the T&E - a perfect hole straight
through - it
had not tripped RCD or fuse.

Question: The cooker was recently wired in as part of a kitchen
upgrade : are
diagonal runs permitted under the relevant regs?

No, all concealed cable runs should be either inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of corner or wall to ceiling transition.

See :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...lectric_cables

On a cooker, because the cooker switch must be placed a lateral distance
away from the stove, I used a dummy box with cover under the
work-surface.

It seems that the dummy box wasn't required as the horizontal and
vertical zones were covered by the outlet in one case, and the switch in
the other.


Indeed, the switch and the flex outlet both create allowable horizontal
and vertical routes - and they will intersect at some point - so there
is no need for diagonal runs.

Yes, Tim also eluded to that.

I'm now a little wiser where as before I erred on the side of caution!

Fredxxx wrote:
Indeed, the switch and the flex outlet both create allowable horizontal
and vertical routes - and they will intersect at some point - so there
is no need for diagonal runs.

Yes, Tim also eluded to that.

Alluded. unless Tim was escaping from it for some reason.

I'm now a little wiser where as before I erred on the side of caution!

'whereas' is one word.

.... pedants of the world unite!

--
Chris Green
·

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:07:20 +0000, Larry wrote:



Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket


Thanks for all responses - much appreciated.
I phoned the electrician who had done the installation of the new kitchen -
and told him of the problem. He was round the house like a rat up a drain -
obviously very concerned when I described the diagonally running cable.

BUT: as soon as he saw it - he said red and black - and heaved a sigh of
relief.
I had not spotted the colours - it was an existing cooker cable which was
already in place from years ago.
However, he said if one of his men had done it - he would have sacked them -
and he would have put in a new compliant cable.
So - I just need to fix in a new 6" length.
I am assuming crimping rather than a push-fit Wago type is preferred - views?

On 12/12/2016 11:50, Larry wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:07:20 +0000, Larry wrote:



Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket


Thanks for all responses - much appreciated.
I phoned the electrician who had done the installation of the new kitchen -
and told him of the problem. He was round the house like a rat up a drain -
obviously very concerned when I described the diagonally running cable.

BUT: as soon as he saw it - he said red and black - and heaved a sigh of
relief.
I had not spotted the colours - it was an existing cooker cable which was
already in place from years ago.
However, he said if one of his men had done it - he would have sacked them -
and he would have put in a new compliant cable.
So - I just need to fix in a new 6" length.
I am assuming crimping rather than a push-fit Wago type is preferred - views?

Depends on where the join is going to end up... if its a joint in a box
of some sort, then either will be fine. If you need something
approaching the slimness of a cable so that you can bury the joint in
plaster, then crimps and heat shrink would be a better choice.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cable_crimping



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
On 12/12/2016 11:50, Larry wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:07:20 +0000, Larry wrote:



Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket


Thanks for all responses - much appreciated.
I phoned the electrician who had done the installation of the new kitchen -
and told him of the problem. He was round the house like a rat up a drain -
obviously very concerned when I described the diagonally running cable.

BUT: as soon as he saw it - he said red and black - and heaved a sigh of
relief.
I had not spotted the colours - it was an existing cooker cable which was
already in place from years ago.
However, he said if one of his men had done it - he would have sacked them -
and he would have put in a new compliant cable.
So - I just need to fix in a new 6" length.
I am assuming crimping rather than a push-fit Wago type is preferred - views?

Depends on where the join is going to end up... if its a joint in a box
of some sort, then either will be fine.

Wagos on a cooker cable... They'll get hotter than the cooker...

If you need something
approaching the slimness of a cable so that you can bury the joint in
plaster, then crimps and heat shrink would be a better choice.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cable_crimping

I would not try and make an inaccessible join in a cooker (or shower)
cable. I used a giant chocolate block connecter designed for cable of
twice the crossectional area, and ran both the conductors to be joined
under both terminal screws to make a good connection. This can be housed
in a flush box with a blanking plate.

If the damage is near one cable end, I would replace that short piece
to the end rather than make two joins.

High current joins need to be made to a high standard of workmanship,
or they may overheat.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 15/12/2016 22:06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm writes:
On 12/12/2016 11:50, Larry wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:07:20 +0000, Larry wrote:



Just putting in a fused spur off the ring main - only 6 inches away from
existing double socket


Thanks for all responses - much appreciated.
I phoned the electrician who had done the installation of the new kitchen -
and told him of the problem. He was round the house like a rat up a drain -
obviously very concerned when I described the diagonally running cable.

BUT: as soon as he saw it - he said red and black - and heaved a sigh of
relief.
I had not spotted the colours - it was an existing cooker cable which was
already in place from years ago.
However, he said if one of his men had done it - he would have sacked them -
and he would have put in a new compliant cable.
So - I just need to fix in a new 6" length.
I am assuming crimping rather than a push-fit Wago type is preferred - views?

Depends on where the join is going to end up... if its a joint in a box
of some sort, then either will be fine.

Wagos on a cooker cable... They'll get hotter than the cooker...

The way I was reading it, the cooker cable was the one in the way due to
its routing in an unexpected place, not the one actually being extended?

If you need something
approaching the slimness of a cable so that you can bury the joint in
plaster, then crimps and heat shrink would be a better choice.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Cable_crimping

I would not try and make an inaccessible join in a cooker (or shower)
cable. I used a giant chocolate block connecter designed for cable of
twice the crossectional area, and ran both the conductors to be joined
under both terminal screws to make a good connection. This can be housed
in a flush box with a blanking plate.

If the damage is near one cable end, I would replace that short piece
to the end rather than make two joins.

High current joins need to be made to a high standard of workmanship,
or they may overheat.

Yup agreed...

To be fair I have not tried the large wagos on "big" cables. (the large
6mm^2 capable wagos are rated at 41A supposedly)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/