On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life
of a car must be plastic inner wing liners. When you see what they are
it really makes you wonder why it took so long for them to become
common place.

Until like all plastics they disintegrate. And can't be repaired like
partially rusted steel. And may just trap salty water behind them where
they meet the steel of the wing.

And it very much depends on the design of the car which parts start
rusting through first anyway. It may not be the wings.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/12/16 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

When what you have is a billion dollar steel pressing plant, and long
term contracts with steel sheet manufacturers, and a design team who
know steel inside out and backwards, and have never designed a plastic
moulding in their lives, everything tends to look like a steel pressing...


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .

G.Harman

And it very much depends on the design of the car which parts start
rusting through first anyway. It may not be the wings.


I was thinking of the many cars that got a vertical line of rust in front
of the doors and those that hat the McPherson Strut mounting rot away - all
prematurely.

On 03/12/16 14:43, wrote:
On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .


In many ways that is the new car killer - not falling to bits or being
BER, but simply not being as fast/safe/cheap to run/conformant to new
regulations/ etc as the forecourt Queens.

The same is true of most consumer tech these days. Only the worst
examples fall to bits.

I've got three 'scrapper' PCS running here that wouldn't run windows
7,8,9 or 10...but do a fine job running Linux.

Id say all have at least another 5 years life in them....

G.Harman



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:


And it very much depends on the design of the car which parts start
rusting through first anyway. It may not be the wings.


I was thinking of the many cars that got a vertical line of rust in
front of the doors and those that hat the McPherson Strut mounting rot
away - all prematurely.

Depends on what you mean by 'prematurely' The number of classics still
around means it is often down to how they are driven and looked after.
Part galvanizing is probably the best way to protect steel before painting
- but could cost more than many are willing to pay for on a new cheap car.
And most usually don't want an old one anyway - regardless of how sound it
might be.

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/12/2016 14:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 14:43, wrote:
On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .


In many ways that is the new car killer - not falling to bits or being
BER, but simply not being as fast/safe/cheap to run/conformant to new
regulations/ etc as the forecourt Queens.

The same is true of most consumer tech these days. Only the worst
examples fall to bits.

I've got three 'scrapper' PCS running here that wouldn't run windows
7,8,9 or 10...but do a fine job running Linux.

Id say all have at least another 5 years life in them....

However, it is also true to say that a modern CPU of similar processing
ability would use a (small) fraction of the electrical power. Similarly,
any graphics card. The HDDs. The inefficient PSUs (perhaps). These
scrapper PCs might be costing you £100 a year more in leccy than a
modern PC. That was covered above "simply not being as fast/safe/cheap
to run ..."







G.Harman

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 14:43, wrote:
On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life
of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .


In many ways that is the new car killer - not falling to bits or being
BER, but simply not being as fast/safe/cheap to run/conformant to new
regulations/ etc as the forecourt Queens.

I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

tim

On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you
back £400 +

I've had three done to mine :-(

However, in et end the choice as to whether to do them depends on the
qualities of the car.

My ageing Freelander is worth almost nothing, except to me.

I couldn't get a car I wanted more with less problems than it *now* has,
for the money its worth.

--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

In article ,
tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Think what you may mean is paying a garage to replace everything they can
guess at with new bits may be more than the car is worth. ;-)

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

Depends on what has failed. Of course with integrated locking and
immobiliser it's not going to be a simple fix. No point in having an
immobiliser if it's easily bypassed.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Huge wrote
DerbyBorn wrote

On simple change that must have had a big impact on
the rust-free life of a car must be plastic inner wing liners.

When you see what they are it really makes you wonder
why it took so long for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

Must explain why they do last much longer anyway.

"tim..." wrote in message
news

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 14:43, wrote:
On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life
of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .


In many ways that is the new car killer - not falling to bits or being
BER, but simply not being as fast/safe/cheap to run/conformant to new
regulations/ etc as the forecourt Queens.

I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

I cant.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car

If there is much of that, IMO someone will start refurbishing
what fails and do that on ebay so it doesnt cost much to fix.

and the utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

Sure, but it wouldnt be hard to provide a different addon
way to lock it given that the hardware is all still there.

And do better too, lock and unlock using your phone, auto
as you approach with the phone in your pocket etc.

On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.



FIAT.

--
Adam

On Saturday, 3 December 2016 16:42:25 UTC, tim... wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 14:43, wrote:
On 3 Dec 2016 14:19:10 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life
of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I'm glad that I have had a few decades of just driving cars that with
a bit of care and maintenance either lasted the course or you got rid
of them when it was appropriate to do so.
A youngster now by the time he reaches a fifth decade of driving may
well have a car that will be engineered to hardly rot, be self driving
when required and have all sorts of technological gadgets.
Unfortunately I can also see a position that to keep it legal to use
on the public highway the software support will have to be kept up to
date by the manufacture.
So at a whim they could suddenly make a whole load of older vehicles
obsolete .


In many ways that is the new car killer - not falling to bits or being
BER, but simply not being as fast/safe/cheap to run/conformant to new
regulations/ etc as the forecourt Queens.

I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

tim

This is not the issue.
The issue is do I do the big repair or buy a new/another car?


Cars these days are designed (as far as possible) so that all components "die" at the same time.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you back
£400 +

ITYF that a replacement of all of your door locking system will be nearer
1500

tim

On 04/12/2016 11:31, tim... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you
back £400 +

ITYF that a replacement of all of your door locking system will be
nearer 1500

tim




Nothing to stop you installing 5 lever mortice locks on each door, far
cheaper than replacement failed locks.

In article ,
tim... wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and
the utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you
back £400 +

ITYF that a replacement of all of your door locking system will be
nearer 1500

Why would you replace all the locking system? It's very unlikely all
motors would fail at once.

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"tim..." wrote in message
news

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you
back £400 +

ITYF that a replacement of all of your door locking system will be nearer
1500

There is never any reason to replace ALL of your door locking system.

"tim..." wrote in message
news

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 03/12/16 16:42, tim... wrote:
I can see the current generation of cars getting prematurely scrapped
because the keyless locking system fails.

Replacing this could be more than the value of an 8 year old car and the
utility of a car that doesn't lock is going to be low.

There are many jobs that occur on high mileage cars that will set you
back £400 +

ITYF that a replacement of all of your door locking system will be nearer
1500

And it doesnt cost anything like that to replace what
isnt working anymore with what you need from a wreck.

On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now, rather
than terminal rust. My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known car,
but plenty wouldn't.

On 09/12/16 10:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now, rather
than terminal rust.

In the end they amount they the same thing.Rst is fiaxable, at a price
just like anything elsse.


My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known car,
but plenty wouldn't.

If you like the car....

however there's another aspect. Cars that are worth more broken than as
a whole. Take those alloys off, get them re coated and flog em for a
grand, with halfway decent tyres on.

That back seat? The one you never used? there s a family out there with
spilt dogsick all over their's... couple of hundred for one in good nick....

Does the ECU still work? Good, mine doesn't...I'll have that for
£150..and the MAF sensor as well for £25...and blimey, that's a rear
door in the same color as mine where someone reversed into it at Tescos.
So that's another £100...

On 09/12/2016 08:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/16 10:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now, rather
than terminal rust.

In the end they amount they the same thing.Rst is fiaxable, at a price
just like anything elsse.


My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known car,
but plenty wouldn't.

If you like the car....

however there's another aspect. Cars that are worth more broken than as
a whole. Take those alloys off, get them re coated and flog em for a
grand, with halfway decent tyres on.

That back seat? The one you never used? there s a family out there with
spilt dogsick all over their's... couple of hundred for one in good
nick....

Does the ECU still work? Good, mine doesn't...I'll have that for
£150..and the MAF sensor as well for £25...and blimey, that's a rear
door in the same color as mine where someone reversed into it at Tescos.
So that's another £100...



Yet scrap yards just tear out the high value metal bits and the rest
goes in the granulator.

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2016 08:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/16 10:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now, rather
than terminal rust.

In the end they amount they the same thing.Rst is fiaxable, at a price
just like anything elsse.


My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known car,
but plenty wouldn't.

If you like the car....

however there's another aspect. Cars that are worth more broken than as
a whole. Take those alloys off, get them re coated and flog em for a
grand, with halfway decent tyres on.

That back seat? The one you never used? there s a family out there with
spilt dogsick all over their's... couple of hundred for one in good
nick....

Does the ECU still work? Good, mine doesn't...I'll have that for
£150..and the MAF sensor as well for £25...and blimey, that's a rear
door in the same color as mine where someone reversed into it at Tescos.
So that's another £100...



Yet scrap yards just tear out the high value metal bits and the rest goes
in the granulator.

Plenty dont.

On 09/12/2016 09:42, Rod Speed wrote:


"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2016 08:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/16 10:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now, rather
than terminal rust.

In the end they amount they the same thing.Rst is fiaxable, at a price
just like anything elsse.


My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known
car,
but plenty wouldn't.

If you like the car....

however there's another aspect. Cars that are worth more broken than as
a whole. Take those alloys off, get them re coated and flog em for a
grand, with halfway decent tyres on.

That back seat? The one you never used? there s a family out there with
spilt dogsick all over their's... couple of hundred for one in good
nick....

Does the ECU still work? Good, mine doesn't...I'll have that for
£150..and the MAF sensor as well for £25...and blimey, that's a rear
door in the same color as mine where someone reversed into it at Tescos.
So that's another £100...



Yet scrap yards just tear out the high value metal bits and the rest
goes in the granulator.

Plenty dont.

It must vary, I am finding it quite difficult to find real scrapyards in
my area, most sell up and get houses built on the land. Best source I
find nowadays is ebay.

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2016 09:42, Rod Speed wrote:


"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2016 08:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/16 10:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 03/12/2016 14:19, Huge wrote:
On 2016-12-03, DerbyBorn wrote:
On simple change that must have had a big impact on the rust-free
life of a
car must be plastic inner wing liners.
When you see what they are it really makes you wonder why it took so
long
for them to become common place.

Because car manufacturers don't want cars to last longer.

I reckon garage labour rates and parts prices kill off cars now,
rather
than terminal rust.

In the end they amount they the same thing.Rst is fiaxable, at a price
just like anything elsse.


My recently traded in 10 year old Leon, which was
overall quite tidy, fetched £1500. A turbo failure would swallow up an
awful lot of that value. Add on a service, a set of tyres and it
starts
to look uneconomical in some ways. I'm not saying I wouldn't spend a
good propotion of a car's value in order to keep an otherwise known
car,
but plenty wouldn't.

If you like the car....

however there's another aspect. Cars that are worth more broken than as
a whole. Take those alloys off, get them re coated and flog em for a
grand, with halfway decent tyres on.

That back seat? The one you never used? there s a family out there with
spilt dogsick all over their's... couple of hundred for one in good
nick....

Does the ECU still work? Good, mine doesn't...I'll have that for
£150..and the MAF sensor as well for £25...and blimey, that's a rear
door in the same color as mine where someone reversed into it at
Tescos.
So that's another £100...



Yet scrap yards just tear out the high value metal bits and the rest
goes in the granulator.

Plenty dont.

It must vary, I am finding it quite difficult to find real scrapyards in
my area, most sell up and get houses built on the land. Best source I
find nowadays is ebay.

Yeah, I have used both myself. Not surprising that some choose to
operate where the land is cheaper and use ebay to get the stuff to
those who want it.

In article ,
MrCheerful wrote:
It must vary, I am finding it quite difficult to find real scrapyards in
my area, most sell up and get houses built on the land. Best source I
find nowadays is ebay.

Yup - not that long ago there were several round here. All housing now.
Same with lots of other businesses. Those that had relatively low rent
premises in a residential area have all now either closed or moved. And
industrial estate type premises seem to cost more.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 10:47:54 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
MrCheerful wrote:
It must vary, I am finding it quite difficult to find real scrapyards in
my area,

Yup - not that long ago there were several round here. All housing now.
Same with lots of other businesses. Those that had relatively low rent
premises in a residential area have all now either closed or moved. And
industrial estate type premises seem to cost more.

A lot had to close for environmental reasons,the days when a pile of
cars could be left while their fluids disappeared into a muddy toxic
soup occasionally thickened with some ash or old gravel have almost
past. Dismantlers now need concrete and waste catchment though there
will still be the odd one who comes and goes unoticed for a bit.

The value of land is now enough to allow for a one off clean up and
sealing operation before house building.


G.Harman