I have to replace a 2 gang dimmer switch, one gang operates the lights,
the other gang I havent a clue, dont even know if it is wired.
Anyhow I bought a replacement but just noticed it is a 2 gang, 2 way.

Is usable or have I purchased the wrong item.
Its the 2 way part that I am not sure about.

ss wrote:

Its the 2 way part that I am not sure about.

It's ok, you can use 2-way switches as 1-way.

"ss" wrote in message
...
I have to replace a 2 gang dimmer switch, one gang operates the lights, the
other gang I havent a clue, dont even know if it is wired.
Anyhow I bought a replacement but just noticed it is a 2 gang, 2 way.

Is usable or have I purchased the wrong item.
Its the 2 way part that I am not sure about.

no problem ....

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 18:27:04 +0000, ss wrote:

I have to replace a 2 gang dimmer switch, one gang operates the lights,
the other gang I havent a clue, dont even know if it is wired.
Anyhow I bought a replacement but just noticed it is a 2 gang, 2 way.

Is usable or have I purchased the wrong item.
Its the 2 way part that I am not sure about.

It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.
If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)
I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.

is it two way or two gang?????

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0000, "Jimbo in the near of Hawick ..."
wrote:


is it two way or two gang?????


It's both.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:10:23 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

Thanks. What do you mean by 'older' in the context of transfomers?
Mine are torroidal transformers installed about 10 years ago. Is the
situation different for electronic transformers and torroidal
transformers? I suspect the cost of replacing a three torroidal
transformers would exceed any savings to be be achieved.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0000, "Jimbo in the near of Hawick ..."
wrote:


is it two way or two gang?????

He says it's both. Any reason to doubt that?

On 26/11/2016 20:18, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:10:23 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

Thanks. What do you mean by 'older' in the context of transfomers?
Mine are torroidal transformers installed about 10 years ago. Is the
situation different for electronic transformers and torroidal
transformers? I suspect the cost of replacing a three torroidal
transformers would exceed any savings to be be achieved.


I believe they would be unsuitable, how many lamps are fed by each one?
Leds are now only a couple of quid each, so it might be worthwhile
buying enough for one circuit and trying, and you could experiment by
leaving one halogen in and the rest led

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.
Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.

No cant contact them.

I believe the halogens were 240v in and 12 v out.
The ones I have replaced and still to replace are in the kitchen and
where I had 9 halogens in the ceiling I have replaced with 4 LED 6 inch
panels total wattage for the 4 is 48W as against 540W and it is much
brighter (cool white).
They cost around £8 per panel on ebay I think each panel has 30+ LEDs in it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:23:08 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 20:18, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:10:23 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

Thanks. What do you mean by 'older' in the context of transfomers?
Mine are torroidal transformers installed about 10 years ago. Is the
situation different for electronic transformers and torroidal
transformers? I suspect the cost of replacing a three torroidal
transformers would exceed any savings to be be achieved.


I believe they would be unsuitable, how many lamps are fed by each one?
Leds are now only a couple of quid each, so it might be worthwhile
buying enough for one circuit and trying, and you could experiment by
leaving one halogen in and the rest led

There are five powered by each transformer. Each transformer has its
own switch so in effect there are three lighting groups. I'm not too
bothered about the cost of the LEDs but I don't want to risk wrecking
the transformer in an experiment as these units are very expensive.
Even leaving one halogen would mean a far lower load than the
transformer is designed for. I think having three lamps different
from the others would offend my sense of feng shui.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:38:16 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.
Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.

No cant contact them.

I believe the halogens were 240v in and 12 v out.
The ones I have replaced and still to replace are in the kitchen and
where I had 9 halogens in the ceiling I have replaced with 4 LED 6 inch
panels total wattage for the 4 is 48W as against 540W and it is much
brighter (cool white).
They cost around £8 per panel on ebay I think each panel has 30+ LEDs in it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks. That was exactly my concern. I thought that the load and the
coils on a transformer had to be balanced and thefore to substitute
48W for 540W would damage the transformer. I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

Hopefully, one of the experts will appear to explain.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:18:48 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:10:23 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

Thanks. What do you mean by 'older' in the context of transfomers?
Mine are torroidal transformers installed about 10 years ago. Is the
situation different for electronic transformers and torroidal
transformers? I suspect the cost of replacing a three torroidal
transformers would exceed any savings to be be achieved.

Just realised it's 'toroidal' before anyone points this out !!!

On 26/11/16 22:07, Scott wrote:
I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

IN this case, almost certainly not. It might have a higher output
voltage though.

--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:38:16 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.
Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.

No cant contact them.

I believe the halogens were 240v in and 12 v out.
The ones I have replaced and still to replace are in the kitchen and
where I had 9 halogens in the ceiling I have replaced with 4 LED 6 inch
panels total wattage for the 4 is 48W as against 540W and it is much
brighter (cool white).
They cost around £8 per panel on ebay I think each panel has 30+ LEDs in
it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks. That was exactly my concern. I thought that the load and the
coils on a transformer had to be balanced and thefore to substitute
48W for 540W would damage the transformer. I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

No it wont. The worst that might happen is that the voltage is higher
than with all halogens and that might well see a halogen still left in
that circuit not last as long as it would normally do, but you say that
you don't want to run it with one halogen per transformer anyway,

On 26/11/2016 22:07, Scott wrote:
Hopefully, one of the experts will appear to explain.

I cant help with that but the panels I bought come with driver/
transformers.

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:23:08 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 20:18, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:10:23 +0000, MrCheerful
wrote:

On 26/11/2016 19:20, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:04:55 +0000, ss wrote:

On 26/11/2016 18:37, Scott wrote:
It would annoy me incessantly to have a two gang switch with only one
in use. Why did you not buy a single gang switch instead?

It was like that when we bought the house and have had too many other
jobs to spend time on it. Easier for me just to replace the switch
bearing in mind I dont know yet if both switches are connected.

Not sure the time involved would be any different.

If they are I will try and trace the `dead` one.
Maybe it was for an outdoor light or something. Previous owners done a
lot of DIY and they owned a light company :-)

Are you in contact with them perchance? The answer may be a short
phone call away.

I am slowly replacing their halogens with LED.
Lounge has 12 x 60w, kitchen 13 x halogens.

Are these mains voltage or 12V? I have a lot of 12V halogen bulbs and
I am wondering if they can be replaced or if the huge drop in load
would damage the transformer.


The problem is that older transformers do not suit leds. I did find
that as long as one halogen is retained (where several lamps are fed
from one transformer) everything is fine, but changing to all led makes
that circuit flicker. You could of course change transformer as well or
change the MR16 halogens to GU10 leds, you would need the GU10 bulb
connectors and some rewiring.
Where my halogens are only on for short times I have left them, ones
which tend to be kept on for long periods I replaced the transformers
and put in leds.

Thanks. What do you mean by 'older' in the context of transfomers?
Mine are torroidal transformers installed about 10 years ago. Is the
situation different for electronic transformers and torroidal
transformers? I suspect the cost of replacing a three torroidal
transformers would exceed any savings to be be achieved.


I believe they would be unsuitable, how many lamps are fed by each one?
Leds are now only a couple of quid each, so it might be worthwhile
buying enough for one circuit and trying, and you could experiment by
leaving one halogen in and the rest led

There are five powered by each transformer. Each transformer has its
own switch so in effect there are three lighting groups. I'm not too
bothered about the cost of the LEDs but I don't want to risk wrecking
the transformer in an experiment as these units are very expensive.
Even leaving one halogen would mean a far lower load than the
transformer is designed for. I think having three lamps different
from the others would offend my sense of feng shui.

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.
--

Roger Hayter

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0000, "Jimbo in the near of Hawick ..."
wrote:


is it two way or two gang?????

He says it's both. Any reason to doubt that?

none...I see that now after re-reading...my sincere humble apogilies ....

Are you sure the old one was not one of those with a timer on/off inside it
for security purposes. I have one of these in my hall.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ss" wrote in message
...
I have to replace a 2 gang dimmer switch, one gang operates the lights, the
other gang I havent a clue, dont even know if it is wired.
Anyhow I bought a replacement but just noticed it is a 2 gang, 2 way.

Is usable or have I purchased the wrong item.
Its the 2 way part that I am not sure about.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I was planning to use AC LEDs and not to buy the cheapest I can find.
As an alternative, I did wonder if I could fit a rectifier after the
transformer output but Mr Google suggest this might produce a
fluctuating voltage.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 09:45:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

[snip]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks. That was exactly my concern. I thought that the load and the
coils on a transformer had to be balanced and thefore to substitute
48W for 540W would damage the transformer. I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

No it wont. The worst that might happen is that the voltage is higher
than with all halogens and that might well see a halogen still left in
that circuit not last as long as it would normally do, but you say that
you don't want to run it with one halogen per transformer anyway,

Could I whip out all the halogen bulbs and check the voltage with a
voltmeter (ie, no load) to find out what the maximum voltage might be?
Is there then a tolerance in the LEDs to consider?

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I was planning to use AC LEDs and not to buy the cheapest I can find.
As an alternative, I did wonder if I could fit a rectifier after the
transformer output but Mr Google suggest this might produce a
fluctuating voltage.

Depending what sort of rectifier it will produce 100Hz or 50Hz flicker,
which some people at least will find intolerable, and will reduce
brightness. There are design criteria for DC power supplies, and you
could no doubt build one, but by the time you dealt with electrical
safety considerations it would be quite a project and cost more than
getting a commercial LED power supply.



--

Roger Hayter

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 11:30:29 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I was planning to use AC LEDs and not to buy the cheapest I can find.
As an alternative, I did wonder if I could fit a rectifier after the
transformer output but Mr Google suggest this might produce a
fluctuating voltage.

Depending what sort of rectifier it will produce 100Hz or 50Hz flicker,
which some people at least will find intolerable, and will reduce
brightness. There are design criteria for DC power supplies, and you
could no doubt build one, but by the time you dealt with electrical
safety considerations it would be quite a project and cost more than
getting a commercial LED power supply.

Thanks. Then I will stick with AC LEDs :-)

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I have now looked at the transformers. They are very heavy, round and
5 inches in diameter. I'm assuming there are no electronics involved
but I could look inside if you could tell me what to look for.

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I have now looked at the transformers. They are very heavy, round and
5 inches in diameter. I'm assuming there are no electronics involved
but I could look inside if you could tell me what to look for.

Assuming the output is AC I should think it virtually certain that there
are no active electronic parts. There could be some interference
suppression components but they will come to no harm. Low load will do
no harm to the transformers. As someone said, the low load voltage
might be a little high, but probably not enough to worry about.

--

Roger Hayter

On 27/11/2016 10:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
Are you sure the old one was not one of those with a timer on/off inside it
for security purposes. I have one of these in my hall.
Brian

I doubt it as it has benn left in every conceivable position and nothing
has gone off or on or changed in any way. When I swap it over the next
few days I will find out for sure.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:22:38 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I have now looked at the transformers. They are very heavy, round and
5 inches in diameter. I'm assuming there are no electronics involved
but I could look inside if you could tell me what to look for.

Assuming the output is AC I should think it virtually certain that there
are no active electronic parts. There could be some interference
suppression components but they will come to no harm. Low load will do
no harm to the transformers. As someone said, the low load voltage
might be a little high, but probably not enough to worry about.

Thank you. This is looking very promising. I hitherto assumed that
upgrading to LED would be an impossibility. Could I ask you two more
questions:

1. Is it worth checking the voltage with no load to see what it is?
2. Any recommendations about bulbs. Are some more tolerant to
overvoltage than others? (The more expensive ones perhaps!).

Scott wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:22:38 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I have now looked at the transformers. They are very heavy, round and
5 inches in diameter. I'm assuming there are no electronics involved
but I could look inside if you could tell me what to look for.

Assuming the output is AC I should think it virtually certain that there
are no active electronic parts. There could be some interference
suppression components but they will come to no harm. Low load will do
no harm to the transformers. As someone said, the low load voltage
might be a little high, but probably not enough to worry about.

Thank you. This is looking very promising. I hitherto assumed that
upgrading to LED would be an impossibility. Could I ask you two more
questions:

1. Is it worth checking the voltage with no load to see what it is?

Check it with a small load, say 5watts. If it is below, say, 13.5 volts
I wouldn't worry. Especially if you haven't got an expensive true rms
voltmeter.

2. Any recommendations about bulbs. Are some more tolerant to
overvoltage than others? (The more expensive ones perhaps!).

No idea, sorry.

A cautionary tale about using a transformer other than the maker's one
with a fan - probably doesn't apply at all to lighting. I have a Vent
Axia Tempra fan and the mains input to their transformer includes live,
and live switched, abbreviated to LS. This was for the usual fan purpose
of supplying power when on timer or using a humidity detector, while the
live switch turned the fan on manually. The terminals on the actual fan
are marked 24v and LS (and 0v, obviously). You might possible assume
that the LS connector required a 24v signal, although this is not that
reasonable, since converting live switched mains to 24v would require a
relay (or two transformers!) anyway. In fact the LS terminal on the
fan is activated by shorting it to 0v, and is connected (directly) to a
PIC input. So 24v was a remarkably bad idea.

--

Roger Hayter

On 27/11/16 14:22, Roger Hayter wrote:
Scott wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:57:58 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

[snip]

If they are toroidal mains transformers (with no switched electronic
supply) they will be perfectly happy with the LEDs. The problem is that
if the transformers produce 12V AC and the LEDs require 12V DC the LEDs
won't work.

I have now looked at the transformers. They are very heavy, round and
5 inches in diameter. I'm assuming there are no electronics involved
but I could look inside if you could tell me what to look for.

Assuming the output is AC I should think it virtually certain that there
are no active electronic parts. There could be some interference
suppression components but they will come to no harm. Low load will do
no harm to the transformers. As someone said, the low load voltage
might be a little high, but probably not enough to worry about.

The ones I have, have but one thing that has gone wrong (excepting the
mouse that chewed through the mains cable ) and that is a thermal
cutout, as they do overheat if buried in insulation. On one of these,
instead of coming back on, it stayed dead permanently.



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 27/11/16 15:01, Scott wrote:
1. Is it worth checking the voltage with no load to see what it is?

Not with LEDS, no. They are not nearly as sensitive to overvolatge as
filaments.

2. Any recommendations about bulbs. Are some more tolerant to

I think you can buy in most supermarkets LED bulbs that will work fine
on 12VAC that are designed to go in the MR16 fitting.

Or just google MR16 12V LED and see what strikes your fancy.

Some wont dim though.

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 09:45:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

[snip]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks. That was exactly my concern. I thought that the load and the
coils on a transformer had to be balanced and thefore to substitute
48W for 540W would damage the transformer. I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

No it wont. The worst that might happen is that the voltage is higher
than with all halogens and that might well see a halogen still left in
that circuit not last as long as it would normally do, but you say that
you don't want to run it with one halogen per transformer anyway,

Could I whip out all the halogen bulbs and check the voltage with a
voltmeter (ie, no load) to find out what the maximum voltage might be?

Yep, but even that isnt ideal because that is the voltage
it produces with no load, and you will have a 48W load.

Is there then a tolerance in the LEDs to consider?

You say elsewhere that you plan to use 12VAC LEDs, they should
be fine and should allow the voltage to be a higher than that.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 05:19:38 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 09:45:32 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

[snip]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3019340747...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks. That was exactly my concern. I thought that the load and the
coils on a transformer had to be balanced and thefore to substitute
48W for 540W would damage the transformer. I'm sure that overloading
a transformer can cause damage. What I don't know is whether
underloading can cause damage.

No it wont. The worst that might happen is that the voltage is higher
than with all halogens and that might well see a halogen still left in
that circuit not last as long as it would normally do, but you say that
you don't want to run it with one halogen per transformer anyway,

Could I whip out all the halogen bulbs and check the voltage with a
voltmeter (ie, no load) to find out what the maximum voltage might be?

Yep, but even that isnt ideal because that is the voltage
it produces with no load, and you will have a 48W load.

Is there then a tolerance in the LEDs to consider?

You say elsewhere that you plan to use 12VAC LEDs, they should
be fine and should allow the voltage to be a higher than that.

Good, thanks. I'm now researching LEDs so should be in business.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 18:27:04 +0000, ss wrote:

[snip]

Thanks for all the advice on 12 Volt LEDs. I have now ordered four
and will carry out some live testing on one of the lighting clusters.