hi,

i moved to a maisonette, ground and lower ground floors, and currently
i am dealing with coal hole just under the pavement. this hole area
suffers from penetrating damp. water finds its way through the
pavement slabs to this cave. the council came to sort out some slabs,
but water still gets in, and it is very probable that it will always
do.

after doing some research i've decided for a cavity drain membrane,
channeling the water to the mains, currently a manhole in the coal
hole's floor. (platon multi from isola products seems about right.
http://www.isola.com )

an additional problem in this area is that all the services come to
the house from the street to the coal hole.

i took a picture and numbered the incoming pipes.
http://binaryform.com/house/coalholeWD.jpg


pipe #

1 ? seems old water pipe
2 gas
3 water. (lead pipe)
4 telephone.

pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

i phoned the water company, as i thought they are responsible to
replace this lead pipe that goes under the pavement, but they said
that they only own the pipes directly under the road and not the ones
that branch to each house.

is this correct? i thought that they own and are responsible for the
pipe work until the stop cock.

i would also like them to remove that capped off pipe (1), as it seems
to have water inside as well, and having to put the waterproof
membrane on the walls, it makes it easier without the expired pipe
being there just hanging from the wall.

anyone has any knowledge on who's responsible for replacing this
pipes?

any help much appreciated.

regards,
mat.

"mat." wrote in message
...
hi,

i moved to a maisonette, ground and lower ground floors, and currently
i am dealing with coal hole just under the pavement. this hole area
suffers from penetrating damp. water finds its way through the
pavement slabs to this cave. the council came to sort out some slabs,
but water still gets in, and it is very probable that it will always
do.

after doing some research i've decided for a cavity drain membrane,
channeling the water to the mains, currently a manhole in the coal
hole's floor. (platon multi from isola products seems about right.
http://www.isola.com )

an additional problem in this area is that all the services come to
the house from the street to the coal hole.

i took a picture and numbered the incoming pipes.
http://binaryform.com/house/coalholeWD.jpg


pipe #

1 ? seems old water pipe
2 gas
3 water. (lead pipe)
4 telephone.

pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

i phoned the water company, as i thought they are responsible to
replace this lead pipe that goes under the pavement, but they said
that they only own the pipes directly under the road and not the ones
that branch to each house.

is this correct? i thought that they own and are responsible for the
pipe work until the stop cock.

i would also like them to remove that capped off pipe (1), as it seems
to have water inside as well, and having to put the waterproof
membrane on the walls, it makes it easier without the expired pipe
being there just hanging from the wall.

anyone has any knowledge on who's responsible for replacing this
pipes?

I'm afraid they are "correct". They will normally admit responsibility for
the stop cock in the road/pavement (if there is one), after that it's down
to you, I'm afraid. Not much help, I know, but there we go.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old feed
on to the property next door.


i phoned the water company, as i thought they are responsible to
replace this lead pipe that goes under the pavement, but they said
that they only own the pipes directly under the road and not the ones
that branch to each house.

True.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

Harry Bloomfield retched coalhole - service mains + damp proofing onto
my recliner:

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch.

I suggest you suck on it to check the temperature thoroughly.



--

Phil K.

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:29:36 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old feed
on to the property next door.


by looking at the picture and the way that pipe was capped off, is it
possible to say if it is/was water or gas, or both services' pipes are
capped off in the same way?

mat.

On 03/02/2004 mat. opined:-
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:29:36 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old feed
on to the property next door.


by looking at the picture and the way that pipe was capped off, is it
possible to say if it is/was water or gas, or both services' pipes are
capped off in the same way?

mat.

Now I can see the picture ;-)

The gas pipe (2) appears to be a recently installed one. Looking at the
photo, it appears to have an unsealed hole around it where it comes
through the wall. It appears it might be a modern steel pipe served
with hemp?

I would expect the capped pipe if a water pipe, to look quite similar
to the other water pipe and come through at a similar height to it.

For the above reasons I would therefore suggest it is probably the old
gas pipe and will likely have been cut off at the other end as well. I
would guess that there is no gas in it, that it was simply sealed until
the old gas main was cut off. I would suggest the new pipe was put in
round about the time your home was converted from coal gas to higher
pressure natural gas.

That is just my guess based upon what I can see and interpret from the
photo. Ring Transco up and ask them to confirm my guess and that the
pipe can be safely removed.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

"mat." wrote:

hi,

snip

i took a picture and numbered the incoming pipes.
http://binaryform.com/house/coalholeWD.jpg

pipe #

1 ? seems old water pipe
2 gas
3 water. (lead pipe)
4 telephone.

pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

Any chance 'pipe' no. 1 on the left could be a disused (but possibly
still live) lead-sheathed electricity supply cable? It does look as
though it has some kind of outer covering similar to the pitch-soaked
cloth (or whatever) old supply cables had. The blob on the end could be
some kind of sealing chamber.

Just a thought...

Harry Bloomfield retched coalhole - service mains + damp proofing onto
my recliner:

On 03/02/2004 mat. opined:-
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:29:36 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.
A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old
feed on to the property next door.


by looking at the picture and the way that pipe was capped off, is it
possible to say if it is/was water or gas, or both services' pipes are
capped off in the same way?

mat.

Now I can see the picture ;-)

The gas pipe (2) appears to be a recently installed one. Looking at the
photo, it appears to have an unsealed hole around it where it comes
through the wall. It appears it might be a modern steel pipe served
with hemp?

I would expect the capped pipe if a water pipe, to look quite similar
to the other water pipe and come through at a similar height to it.

For the above reasons I would therefore suggest it is probably the old
gas pipe and will likely have been cut off at the other end as well. I
would guess that there is no gas in it, that it was simply sealed until
the old gas main was cut off. I would suggest the new pipe was put in
round about the time your home was converted from coal gas to higher
pressure natural gas.

That is just my guess based upon what I can see and interpret from the
photo. Ring Transco up and ask them to confirm my guess and that the
pipe can be safely removed.


I spy with my little eye something beginning with N.


--

Phil K.

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

thanks for all the replies so far, been very helpful.

i have another query though, if indeed this lead pipe is not the
responsibility of the water supplier, should i replace it before
attemping to waterproof the room?

in case i sell the flat in the future, will this lead pipe make it
difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage on the flat?


regards,
mat.

"mat." wrote in message
...
thanks for all the replies so far, been very helpful.

i have another query though, if indeed this lead pipe is not the
responsibility of the water supplier, should i replace it before
attemping to waterproof the room?

in case i sell the flat in the future, will this lead pipe make it
difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage on the flat?


regards,
mat.

Well if there is a problem having a lead watermain re mortages you won't be
alone - 10's (maybe 100's) of thousands of houses are lead supplied still.

Andrew

mat. wrote in message . ..
thanks for all the replies so far, been very helpful.

i have another query though, if indeed this lead pipe is not the
responsibility of the water supplier, should i replace it before
attemping to waterproof the room?

in case i sell the flat in the future, will this lead pipe make it
difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage on the flat?


I dont see how lead piping would affect the odds of you making
mortgage payments, nor their ability to sell the house should it prove
necessary.

Regards, NT

(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
mat. wrote in message . ..
thanks for all the replies so far, been very helpful.

snip

in case i sell the flat in the future, will this lead pipe make it
difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage on the flat?


I dont see how lead piping would affect the odds of you making
mortgage payments, nor their ability to sell the house should it prove
necessary.

err...umm.. if I may demure...

When it comes to letting through a house sale, solicitors & bldg socs
are getting ever more pernickety about what is stated in house survey
reports & are asking ever more searching questions of sellers.
Partly this due to law changes & partly due to court decisions.

A friend had it noted that his roof didn't meet the current bldg regs
by the buyer's BS surveyor, even though it complied fully when it was
built 20 years ago. Guess what? It had to be modified before the
transaction went through. He had deep suspicions there was a surveyor
looking for work for his mates somewhere, but he's just thoroughly
uncharitable :-{{


FWIIW I'd suggest you at least take this opportunity to identify &
label each pipe etc & mark its status (dead/live/in - use nb date your
labels), even if you then decide to leave things as they are. Could
save you a little hassle when it comes to selling.

(drifter) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
mat. wrote in message . ..

in case i sell the flat in the future, will this lead pipe make it
difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage on the flat?


I dont see how lead piping would affect the odds of you making
mortgage payments, nor their ability to sell the house should it prove
necessary.

err...umm.. if I may demure...

When it comes to letting through a house sale, solicitors & bldg socs
are getting ever more pernickety about what is stated in house survey
reports & are asking ever more searching questions of sellers.
Partly this due to law changes & partly due to court decisions.

A friend had it noted that his roof didn't meet the current bldg regs
by the buyer's BS surveyor, even though it complied fully when it was
built 20 years ago. Guess what? It had to be modified before the
transaction went through.

It didnt, half the housing stock in Britain doesnt meet building regs
or come anywhere near them. If he chose to play the game of doing
pointless work in order to get the sale that was his choice, but not
one many sellers would take seriously.


Regards, NT

(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
snip

When it comes to letting through a house sale, solicitors & bldg socs
are getting ever more pernickety

snip

It didnt, half the housing stock in Britain doesnt meet building regs
or come anywhere near them. If he chose to play the game of doing
pointless work in order to get the sale that was his choice, but not
one many sellers would take seriously.

It's not the buyers that matter - it's the mortgage providers, unless
you want to hang about waiting on that cash buyer to show up. The
house selling transaction is far far tighter than it was even 5 years
ago & out of all recognition to 30 years ago. Eg solictors routinely
check up whether you've had ALL relevant Planning & Building Reg
permissions. They do this directly via their enquiry sheets & via
local authority seaches. Ditto for the mortgage provider who doesn't
want to see any hanging queries on the surveyor's report. All of them
examine the replies & reports carefully. They don't want to have a
reclaimed house on their hands which they can't offload because
they're in a legal loop.

There's lots of examples of all this on uk.d-i-y - see eg first
posting on "Oh My God - Can't Sell Our House" posted 7/10/2002. For
more examples, search Google eg for Windows/Double Glazing during
2001/2002 when the new regs started.

Think, if you're desperate to move & you've had your house on the
market for months & months, are you going to turn down the only punter
in sight? Of course not. You're going to roll over and please his
Building Soc Manager.

My suggestion to OP is at the very least make sure the surveyor will
have as few queries as possible whenever he shows up.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old feed
on to the property next door.


i phoned the water company, as i thought they are responsible to
replace this lead pipe that goes under the pavement, but they said
that they only own the pipes directly under the road and not the ones
that branch to each house.

True.

Only when the pipe crosses the property line is it then yours.

"mat." wrote in message
...
hi,

i moved to a maisonette, ground and lower ground floors, and currently
i am dealing with coal hole just under the pavement. this hole area
suffers from penetrating damp. water finds its way through the
pavement slabs to this cave. the council came to sort out some slabs,
but water still gets in, and it is very probable that it will always
do.

after doing some research i've decided for a cavity drain membrane,
channeling the water to the mains, currently a manhole in the coal
hole's floor. (platon multi from isola products seems about right.
http://www.isola.com )

an additional problem in this area is that all the services come to
the house from the street to the coal hole.

i took a picture and numbered the incoming pipes.
http://binaryform.com/house/coalholeWD.jpg


pipe #

1 ? seems old water pipe
2 gas
3 water. (lead pipe)
4 telephone.

pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.

i phoned the water company, as i thought they are responsible to
replace this lead pipe that goes under the pavement, but they said
that they only own the pipes directly under the road and not the ones
that branch to each house.

is this correct? i thought that they own and are responsible for the
pipe work until the stop cock.

i would also like them to remove that capped off pipe (1), as it seems
to have water inside as well, and having to put the waterproof
membrane on the walls, it makes it easier without the expired pipe
being there just hanging from the wall.

anyone has any knowledge on who's responsible for replacing this
pipes?

any help much appreciated.

regards,
mat.

If that alcove is "under" the pavement, then walling up at your property
line will leave the pies in a void, which is not allowed.

It is best to get the services renewed that require renewing; get a large
bore plastic water pipe, then build a wall and fill in the void with earth.
Make sure as you erect the wall it is waterproof on the outside.

This idot ******* cross posted a post that was aimed at only uk.d-i-y. His
ISP will get to know.

"I am everyone on usenet!" wrote
in message .. .
Harry Bloomfield retched coalhole - service mains + damp proofing onto
my recliner:

On 03/02/2004 mat. opined:-
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:29:36 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

On 02/02/2004 mat. a wrote :
pipe 1, is capped off. i think it might be water as it is cold to
touch and it is lead. the mains water is a lead pipe that goes to a
stop cock inside the coal hole as well, and from there on the pipes
are not lead in the whole house.
A lead gas pipe would be equally cold to the touch. It used to be
common pratice for water pipes to be fed through the basement of
several properties in a row. The capped off pipe might be the old
feed on to the property next door.


by looking at the picture and the way that pipe was capped off, is it
possible to say if it is/was water or gas, or both services' pipes are
capped off in the same way?

mat.

Now I can see the picture ;-)

The gas pipe (2) appears to be a recently installed one. Looking at the
photo, it appears to have an unsealed hole around it where it comes
through the wall. It appears it might be a modern steel pipe served
with hemp?

I would expect the capped pipe if a water pipe, to look quite similar
to the other water pipe and come through at a similar height to it.

For the above reasons I would therefore suggest it is probably the old
gas pipe and will likely have been cut off at the other end as well. I
would guess that there is no gas in it, that it was simply sealed until
the old gas main was cut off. I would suggest the new pipe was put in
round about the time your home was converted from coal gas to higher
pressure natural gas.

That is just my guess based upon what I can see and interpret from the
photo. Ring Transco up and ask them to confirm my guess and that the
pipe can be safely removed.


I spy with my little eye something beginning with N.


--

Phil K.

http://philkyle2003.reachme.at/

In article , drifter
writes
When it comes to letting through a house sale, solicitors & bldg socs
are getting ever more pernickety about what is stated in house survey
reports & are asking ever more searching questions of sellers.
Partly this due to law changes & partly due to court decisions.

A friend had it noted that his roof didn't meet the current bldg regs
by the buyer's BS surveyor, even though it complied fully when it was
built 20 years ago. Guess what? It had to be modified before the
transaction went through. He had deep suspicions there was a surveyor
looking for work for his mates somewhere, but he's just thoroughly
uncharitable :-{{

On the other hand, when our insurers were looking for any excuse not to
remedy the subsidence on our house, and were working on the "spreading
roof" hypothesis, the surveyor said that in theory there ought to be
more diagonal bracing, but that if it had stood for 150 years like that,
he could see no reason to go to the trouble of putting it in.

J.
--
John Rouse

"IMM" wrote in message
...
This idot ******* cross posted a post that was aimed at only uk.d-i-y.
His
ISP will get to know.
Good for you IMM

In article ,
drifter wrote:
It's not the buyers that matter - it's the mortgage providers, unless
you want to hang about waiting on that cash buyer to show up. The
house selling transaction is far far tighter than it was even 5 years
ago & out of all recognition to 30 years ago.

Somehow, I don't think you bought a house 30 years ago. In those days you
had to conform to all sorts of regulations with the then mutual building
societies that just don't exist these days.

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Dave Plowman wrote in message ...
In article ,
drifter wrote:
It's not the buyers that matter - it's the mortgage providers, unless
you want to hang about waiting on that cash buyer to show up. The
house selling transaction is far far tighter than it was even 5 years
ago & out of all recognition to 30 years ago.

Somehow, I don't think you bought a house 30 years ago. In those days you
had to conform to all sorts of regulations with the then mutual building
societies that just don't exist these days.

sorry for late reply, but for the record, yes I did buy 30 years ago &
yes they were fussy back then too, but it was fussy in a different way
- how long you;d saved with the BS, whether you were fit & proper to
have one of their motgages etc.

& yes, I did have repair conditions imposed once, but they were of
little consequence.

There's been a sea change, especially in the last 5 years: in a number
of quite high profile court cases Sols & BS/bank have been left
holding the baby - essentially because they didn't assume their client
(the house buyer) was stupid. Extra Qs have been put in the std
questionairre & the surveyor's report will be studied far more
carefully than it was 30 years ago.

Beware it is is going to get worse especially if the govt's proposed
house sellers package comes in - quite possibly before long you're
going to have to declare all the work you've done on the house. The
OP is best advised to leave as few loose ends as possible for any
future surveyor's report.