I'm considering using underfloor heating (wet) in a new conservatory. 3
areas are causing
me concern if anybody has the answers:-

1. Some websites seem to claim a heat output of 70W/sq m for a floating
floor
and 100W/sq m for a screeded floor. Can anybody explain why there should
be a difference?

2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to cover
the heatloss
for a conservatory even when using low E glass (Unless my calculations
have gone
wrong). Websites don't seem to say that the UFH would need to be
supplemneted.
Does anybody here use UFH in a conservatory and find it sufficient on
its own?

3. Some suppliers indicate that an additional pump is only necessary for
floor areas
16sq m. Others seem to indicate that an additional pump is always
required. Does
anybody have a view on this please?

Many thanks for any help you can give,
Jon...

"jon" wrote in message
...
I'm considering using underfloor heating (wet) in a new conservatory. 3
areas are causing
me concern if anybody has the answers:-

1. Some websites seem to claim a heat output of 70W/sq m for a floating
floor
and 100W/sq m for a screeded floor. Can anybody explain why there should
be a difference?

2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to cover
the heatloss
for a conservatory even when using low E glass (Unless my calculations
have gone
wrong). Websites don't seem to say that the UFH would need to be
supplemneted.
Does anybody here use UFH in a conservatory and find it sufficient on
its own?

3. Some suppliers indicate that an additional pump is only necessary for
floor areas
16sq m. Others seem to indicate that an additional pump is always
required. Does
anybody have a view on this please?

Many thanks for any help you can give,
Jon...

Hi.
In the summer I put underfloor heating in our new conservatory, 6m x 2.6
with 1m wall with K glass windows and poly roof.
I used 2 x 50m loops of 15mm od poly tube, which was the most I could get in
with 150mm spacing.
I used equator boards under 50mm of screed.
http://www.equator.co.uk/newwebsite/...loor/home.html
and Danfoss valves
http://tinyurl.com/lzu4
All connected to existing CH system.
Works a treat.
Baz

jon wrote:

I'm considering using underfloor heating (wet) in a new conservatory. 3
areas are causing
me concern if anybody has the answers:-

1. Some websites seem to claim a heat output of 70W/sq m for a floating
floor
and 100W/sq m for a screeded floor. Can anybody explain why there should
be a difference?



I thnk the issue is the temperature you have to raise the air under the
floating floor to get that kind of heat output. You can get 3Kw per
square meter if you don't mind the floor glowing a dull red colour...:-)

Haet transfer is a function ofteh underfloor insulation, the temperature
at the pipes and the conductivity through to the room.

I would say 200W is possible with screed.



2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to cover
the heatloss
for a conservatory even when using low E glass (Unless my calculations
have gone
wrong). Websites don't seem to say that the UFH would need to be
supplemneted.
Does anybody here use UFH in a conservatory and find it sufficient on
its own?


No, but I think it would probably be OK. Post your calculations here,
for discussion.



3. Some suppliers indicate that an additional pump is only necessary for
floor areas
16sq m. Others seem to indicate that an additional pump is always
required. Does
anybody have a view on this please?



Mmm. I would say its always a good idea. You need to reduce the CH water
temp somehow, and circulate it separately, and notionally independently
of the main CH flow.


Many thanks for any help you can give,
Jon...

1. Some websites seem to claim a heat output of 70W/sq m for a
floating floor
and 100W/sq m for a screeded floor. Can anybody explain why there
should be a difference?

I think it is to prevent the wood overheating and warping.

2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to
cover the heatloss for a conservatory even when using low E glass

If your calculations show it is insufficient, consider fitting something
like a Myson Kickspace Floor to supplement the heat requirement. This would
take no wall space, although there would be a grille in the floor. You could
leave the convector off, except in exceptionally cold weather.
Alternatively, the combination of fan convector and underfloor will cause
the conservatory to get to temperature much more quickly. Underfloor does
take a long time to heat a room from cold.

Christian.

snip
2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to
cover the heatloss
for a conservatory even when using low E glass (Unless my calculations
have gone
wrong). Websites don't seem to say that the UFH would need to be
supplemneted.
Does anybody here use UFH in a conservatory and find it sufficient on
its own?



No, but I think it would probably be OK. Post your calculations here,
for discussion.

OK, here goes. The conservatory would only have 2 outside walls so I
have assumed no heat loss/gain from the other 2. I have also assumed no
heat loss through the floor!


Glass, double, Low E U=2.0
dwarf walls, double brick, cavity, insul. U=0.56
Floor area (internal) is 3.92m x 3.52m
Outside temp -1
Inside temp 20


Floor - No losses as such.

Dwarf walls
===========

(3.92+3.52) x 0.5 x 0.56 x 21 = 44W.


glass walls
===========

(3.92+3.52) x 1.7m x 21 x 2 = 532W


glass roof
===========

2 x 3m x 2m x 21 x 2 = 504W - 2 "sloping sides"
1 x 3.24sq m x 21 x 2 = 136W - 1 "sloping end panel" very approx


Air at 1,5 changes/hr.
=====================

Volume = 37.26cu m * 0.33 * 21 = 259W.


Total = 1475W

Thanks for this lead Baz, the equator (Marley) website actually says:-

"It is important to note that the use of the Equator underfloor heating
system for conservatory installations will not provide sufficient
comfort heat during the mid-winter season."

So, full marks to Marley for being honest about this!

In the summer I put underfloor heating in our new conservatory, 6m x 2.6
with 1m wall with K glass windows and poly roof.
I used 2 x 50m loops of 15mm od poly tube, which was the most I could get in
with 150mm spacing.
I used equator boards under 50mm of screed.
http://www.equator.co.uk/newwebsite/...loor/home.html
and Danfoss valves
http://tinyurl.com/lzu4
All connected to existing CH system.
Works a treat.
Baz

jon wrote:

snip

2. Even at 100W/sq m this seems like it is probably not enough to
cover the heatloss
for a conservatory even when using low E glass (Unless my
calculations have gone
wrong). Websites don't seem to say that the UFH would need to be
supplemneted.
Does anybody here use UFH in a conservatory and find it sufficient on
its own?




No, but I think it would probably be OK. Post your calculations here,
for discussion.


OK, here goes. The conservatory would only have 2 outside walls so I
have assumed no heat loss/gain from the other 2. I have also assumed no
heat loss through the floor!


Glass, double, Low E U=2.0
dwarf walls, double brick, cavity, insul. U=0.56
Floor area (internal) is 3.92m x 3.52m
Outside temp -1
Inside temp 20


Floor - No losses as such.

Dwarf walls
===========

(3.92+3.52) x 0.5 x 0.56 x 21 = 44W.


glass walls
===========

(3.92+3.52) x 1.7m x 21 x 2 = 532W


glass roof
===========

2 x 3m x 2m x 21 x 2 = 504W - 2 "sloping sides"
1 x 3.24sq m x 21 x 2 = 136W - 1 "sloping end panel" very approx


Air at 1,5 changes/hr.
=====================

Volume = 37.26cu m * 0.33 * 21 = 259W.


Total = 1475W


Wow. Doesn't all that building reg standard glass lose a lot of heat!

Floor WILL lose some heat too.

A couple of things to note.

(i) The floor. That will lose a bit. Assume U value of about one half.
(ii) Do you really want this lot at 20C when its minus one outside and
dark? In teh daytimeypu will pick up some watts through light/sunlght,
after dark you may find that drawing the curtains - especially if
thermal lined - will make a HUGE difference. I stuck in SG windows and
the curtains really make a difference. They trap about 6" of air behind
then and as long as mo rads are underneath them, it says there and
doesn't move. Excellent insulator.
(iii) heat input from the rest of the house. I assume uyou have simply
ignored the dividing wall - but it may actually be a net contributor.


However, your calcs look of the right sort of magnitude, so you need
150W/m^2 power input. That is on the high side, but doable. Especaily
with e.g. tiled floor. Trouble is the floor will be getting HOT.

A final possibility is to heat for 100W/sq meter and then use a
convector or gas fire or something on really cold days.


Or is there any way to improve glass insulation? If you can glean an
improvement from U=2 to say U=1.5, then already you are nearly on
target...or how about not glazing it so completely?

I must say I am a little surprised, but polyplumb do say that UF heating
in a totally glass room cannot be expected to completely do the job, so
it sounds like you are right after all.