Christmas Greetings All

Can Anybody give me any good reasons why I should not use mortar
to retile entire bathroom walls with large ceramic wall tiles
(31cm * 41cm each tile)


The problem I have is the walls from top to bottom aren't exactly
plumb/square, and to get the wall square means either replastering
the wall square (and then waiting 1-2 months for it to dry - correct
me if I'm wrong),
OR making up the gap with the tile adhesive.
Problem is the gap comes to a maximum of 1/2 inch. and all the
ready mixed tile adhesives are 3mm max thin bed.
I was going to build the bed up 3mm a time but it takes 2 days to dry
out and I'd still be doing the job next Christmas.
I sucessfully stuck a few tiles using unibond waterproof cement
tile adhesive which to me seems to be a really good product -
much better than the crappy unibond thin bed readymixed which
I started off with then took down cos I didnt like the way it was
setting (slight cracks in places)

I could continue using the cement adhesive but as it needs to go on
pretty thick in places, and isnt particularly cheap,
I am seriously considering using a mortar mix. It doesnt seem
all that different to me.
I was hoping somebody could warn me of any dangers before I start.
I was thinking of using a mix of 1: 0.5 : 6 portland cement,lime,
silver sand.
Will I be able to tile on top straight away (probably 1 row at a time
until it sets).
Any worries about mortar drying out and shrinking / spoiling tile layout.
Can it be applied as fairly substantial blobs rather than continuous
as I will need some play to get the tiles even, square and vertical.
Anything else?

Thanks for any advice

(I'd be interested to hear what John (Schmidt) and AerMAX think)


SledgerhammerSteve

In article ,
(SledgehammerSteve) writes:
Christmas Greetings All

Can Anybody give me any good reasons why I should not use mortar
to retile entire bathroom walls with large ceramic wall tiles
(31cm * 41cm each tile)

I think tile adhesive also contains, as name suggests, adhesive.
I suspect tiles might pull off mortar without a lot of effort.

Also, I think you will find accurately placing tiles, getting them
level, and not having them slide down the wall pretty impossible
if you are having to slap 1/2" of mortar or tile adhesive behind
them in one go. It does sound to me like you are going to have to
use a two stage process; first get the wall flat (at least, a lot
flatter than 1/2" out -- doesn't need to be finish coat quality),
then tile the flat wall.

--
Andrew Gabriel

The problem I have is the walls from top to bottom aren't exactly
plumb/square, and to get the wall square means either replastering
the wall square (and then waiting 1-2 months for it to dry - correct
me if I'm wrong),
OR making up the gap with the tile adhesive.

Why not plaster the wall flat with the mortar (instead of bonding plaster),
let it set for a couple of days and then use proper waterproof adhesive for
the tiles?

Christian.

Don't use mortar for tiles, it won't work, its not an adhesive (the tiles wont
stay up for long if at all). Dot and Dab the walls to make them plum then skim
next day, wait 48 hours and seal, unibond and water mixed is fine for this,
then tile as normal, email me if you want more advice or are not sure what i'm
on about, Tel

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I think tile adhesive also contains, as name suggests, adhesive.
I suspect tiles might pull off mortar without a lot of effort.

I think they used to use mortar in the old days - I had a splash back in
my kitchen so done. And they took some removing as the walls were also
skimmed in mortar, with a thin skin of plaster on top.

--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
take away nojunk wrote:
Don't use mortar for tiles, it won't work, its not an adhesive (the
tiles wont stay up for long if at all).

You ever tried removing mortar splashes from a variety of surfaces when
its set?

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

I did of course mean plumb !!!!!

same as paint, but is paint an adhesive?? Maybe i should have said its not a
light materials adhesive, its used for heavy gauge materials i.e bricks &
blocks, you don't see many bricks & blocks stuck to other walls now do you!

In article ,
Dave Plowman writes:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I think tile adhesive also contains, as name suggests, adhesive.
I suspect tiles might pull off mortar without a lot of effort.

I think they used to use mortar in the old days - I had a splash back in
my kitchen so done. And they took some removing as the walls were also
skimmed in mortar, with a thin skin of plaster on top.

In the old days, I think it was done with sand/cement/lime render,
and then a very thin coat of cement, maybe pure with no sand, or just
with just a small amount of sand, to stick the tiles to the surface of
the render. (I was told, but it was a while ago and I might have mis-
remembered.)

Modern tile adhesive will be much easier to use though.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Hi
When I used the Unibond cement based adhesive (which behaves like mortar
and spreads on wall using plasterers trowel, but I dont know if its any
stickier than mortar), I put on about 8mm thick in 1 go with no problems
with the tile slipping.
They've set really well too- in fact stuck onto the wall like the
Rock of Gibralter! which is more than I would have got with the Unibond
3mm ready mixed.
I was planning to use a dryish mortar mix and hope it will behave the same
way as the cement based tile adhesive already used.
I think I'll have to try out a single tile first to check how it behaves and
sets, unless there are any more good reasons why this is going to end up
as a failure.

SledgehammerSteve

SledgehammerSteve wrote:
Hi
When I used the Unibond cement based adhesive (which behaves like
mortar and spreads on wall using plasterers trowel, but I dont know
if its any stickier than mortar), I put on about 8mm thick in 1 go
with no problems with the tile slipping.

Yep, this is definitely one case where the powdered tile adhesives
outperform the ready-mix generic stuff by a mile.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

I had a bumpy wall, I used "dollops" of tile adheasive placed onto the tile. You them press the tile into place.

You can only do one row at a time as you have to keep the things there while they dry. This is IMHO a job where having time an patience makes it better, mine is OK,
but not brilliant, I was short on time.

Grouting was fun, that had to be built up in two layers, because in places it was a long way from the "slot" to the wall.

Rick


On 22 Dec 2003 03:19:45 -0800, (SledgehammerSteve) wrote:
Christmas Greetings All

Can Anybody give me any good reasons why I should not use mortar
to retile entire bathroom walls with large ceramic wall tiles
(31cm * 41cm each tile)


The problem I have is the walls from top to bottom aren't exactly
plumb/square, and to get the wall square means either replastering
the wall square (and then waiting 1-2 months for it to dry - correct
me if I'm wrong),
OR making up the gap with the tile adhesive.
Problem is the gap comes to a maximum of 1/2 inch. and all the
ready mixed tile adhesives are 3mm max thin bed.
I was going to build the bed up 3mm a time but it takes 2 days to dry
out and I'd still be doing the job next Christmas.
I sucessfully stuck a few tiles using unibond waterproof cement
tile adhesive which to me seems to be a really good product -
much better than the crappy unibond thin bed readymixed which
I started off with then took down cos I didnt like the way it was
setting (slight cracks in places)

I could continue using the cement adhesive but as it needs to go on
pretty thick in places, and isnt particularly cheap,
I am seriously considering using a mortar mix. It doesnt seem
all that different to me.
I was hoping somebody could warn me of any dangers before I start.
I was thinking of using a mix of 1: 0.5 : 6 portland cement,lime,
silver sand.
Will I be able to tile on top straight away (probably 1 row at a time
until it sets).
Any worries about mortar drying out and shrinking / spoiling tile layout.
Can it be applied as fairly substantial blobs rather than continuous
as I will need some play to get the tiles even, square and vertical.
Anything else?

Thanks for any advice

(I'd be interested to hear what John (Schmidt) and AerMAX think)


SledgerhammerSteve

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I think they used to use mortar in the old days - I had a splash back in
my kitchen so done. And they took some removing as the walls were also
skimmed in mortar, with a thin skin of plaster on top.

In the old days, I think it was done with sand/cement/lime render,
and then a very thin coat of cement, maybe pure with no sand, or just
with just a small amount of sand, to stick the tiles to the surface of
the render. (I was told, but it was a while ago and I might have mis-
remembered.)

I *think* mine was actually repairs to war damage, as no other room in the
house had this type of 'plaster'.

Modern tile adhesive will be much easier to use though.

Yes, but mortar based ones are pretty expensive.

--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall.*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn