Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 17:16:00 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

no


NT

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:15:38 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

No.

--
TOJ.

In article ,
Michael Chare writes:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

No. There's probably one in your wris****ch.

Temperature stability does have a small impact on the frequency.
For highly stable operation, they are sometimes installed in a
small oven so they can be heated to a constant temperature.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.


NT

On 25/10/2016 18:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Michael Chare used his keyboard to write :
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

The two pins are reversible (no polarity) and the physical orientation
doesn't matter either.

Thanks for all the replies. I could not find any markings and I am now
sure that I have not put it in the wrong way round.

--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 25/10/2016 19:43, Michael Chare wrote:
On 25/10/2016 18:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Michael Chare used his keyboard to write :
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

The two pins are reversible (no polarity) and the physical orientation
doesn't matter either.

Thanks for all the replies. I could not find any markings and I am now
sure that I have not put it in the wrong way round.

Installed where? I have never seen a crystal that wasn't marked on the
outside of the can with the operating frequency or a code for same.

If you said what the application and frequency was it would be possible
to suggest a simple circuit to test it independently.

Watch xtals at 32768Hz are easily blown to bits unless you use a lower
drive power but usually survive a few days on the higher power. Most
other things will stand a fair amount of abuse from logic chips.

Some are tetchy about starting or are off frequency if the right load
capacitor network isn't placed around them. Older Meade telescopes are
an example where the RTC keeps appalling time and has to be reset almost
every session. They fixed it by adding a GPS function!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.



I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

NT



--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.



I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.


NT

On 25/10/16 21:16, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.



I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.


NT

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 21:35:02 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.

You've never carried them around then. They tinkle.


NT

On 26/10/16 01:34, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 21:35:02 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.

You've never carried them around then. They tinkle.



Then *you* are the bell tinkler.



NT



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 25/10/2016 20:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

Neither have I. Increasingly though oscillator modules are sold rather
than bare crystals but they tend to have 4 or even 6 connections.

The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd


"put them in upside down and the electrons will fall out..."

--
Adrian C

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

You'd call that an oscillator?

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/10/16 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
On 25/10/2016 20:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They
are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just
crystals.

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

Neither have I. Increasingly though oscillator modules are sold rather
than bare crystals but they tend to have 4 or even 6 connections.

The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

All of those have outputs that are not electrical though. Light or sound.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 26/10/16 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
On 25/10/2016 20:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They
are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just
crystals.

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

Neither have I. Increasingly though oscillator modules are sold rather
than bare crystals but they tend to have 4 or even 6 connections.

The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

All of those have outputs that are not electrical though. Light or sound.

Well, the bimetal causes an indicator bulb to oscillate, that's an
electrical output.
The magnetic buzzer - whadaya think this is -
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8

or

http://tinyurl.com/jbhun6h

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 08:11:12 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 01:34, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 21:35:02 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.

You've never carried them around then. They tinkle.



Then *you* are the bell tinkler.

That's one way to miss the point.


NT

On 26/10/16 14:50, wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 08:11:12 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 01:34, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 21:35:02 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.

You've never carried them around then. They tinkle.



Then *you* are the bell tinkler.

That's one way to miss the point.


well you missed it first. My point was that oscillators need energy
sources, and therefore passive components like bells or crystals are not
oscillators unless they have a source of energy, be it battery, bell
ringer, or jerking around in your trousers.

And its very rare to have a two terminal *active* electrical device as
in general you need two wires for supply, and one for the output, and if
there is an input one for that too.

A car flasher is not an oscillator, until it is connected to a bulb.,
Then it is a two terminal device BUT the output is the light. Same for a
buzzer. Except that's sound.

And a bell without a bell ringer isn't an oscillator either.

Only when its being jerked around does it ring.

NT



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 15:05:08 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 14:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 08:11:12 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 01:34, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 21:35:02 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.

You've never carried them around then. They tinkle.



Then *you* are the bell tinkler.

That's one way to miss the point.


well you missed it first. My point was that oscillators need energy
sources, and therefore passive components like bells or crystals are not
oscillators unless they have a source of energy, be it battery, bell
ringer, or jerking around in your trousers.

And its very rare to have a two terminal *active* electrical device as
in general you need two wires for supply, and one for the output, and if
there is an input one for that too.

A car flasher is not an oscillator, until it is connected to a bulb.,
Then it is a two terminal device BUT the output is the light. Same for a
buzzer. Except that's sound.

And a bell without a bell ringer isn't an oscillator either.

Only when its being jerked around does it ring.

what a waste of time.

On 26/10/2016 12:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
On 25/10/2016 20:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They
are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just
crystals.

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

Neither have I. Increasingly though oscillator modules are sold rather
than bare crystals but they tend to have 4 or even 6 connections.

The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

All of those have outputs that are not electrical though. Light or sound.

Rubbish. Their output is a current flow that switches on and off
alternately. What you do with externally is immaterial.

A simple load resistor would convert the changing current into a voltage
but the most common uses were for visual or acoustic indicators.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 17:16:00 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

--
I got a group of various images.

Oscillators normally have to be connected the correct way around.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crysta...ators/7675244/
as they are powered devices althoug some people can't tell an
oscillator from their arse hole .

Xtal or crystals don't.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crystal-units/5476294/


ceramic resonators can do to some extent as they have 3 legs
that can't be interchanged at will.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cerami...ators/7288465/

On 27/10/16 09:41, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/10/2016 12:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/10/16 09:28, Martin Brown wrote:
On 25/10/2016 20:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:
Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They
are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just
crystals.

I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

Neither have I. Increasingly though oscillator modules are sold rather
than bare crystals but they tend to have 4 or even 6 connections.

The canonical two terminal oscillator is the old bimetallic strip winker
for car indicators of old where the current flow heats the strip up and
breaks the circuit then cools and remakes. Likewise for a magnetic based
buzzers and traditional solenoid ding-dong doorbells.

All of those have outputs that are not electrical though. Light or sound.

Rubbish. Their output is a current flow that switches on and off
alternately. What you do with externally is immaterial.

No, they dont. You cant connect one end of a flasher to the battery but
nothing will come out *until you connect the bulb*.

Ergo te 'oscillator' beeds the bulb to work, and the output is its light.

A simple load resistor would convert the changing current into a voltage
but the most common uses were for visual or acoustic indicators.


And that simple load resistor is what is needed to create an oscillator
and the junction between it and the flasher unit, creates a terminal
that wasn't there before.,

QED


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 25/10/2016 9:16 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals. They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just crystals.



I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not zero.


NT

All things vibrate, being that all things are made of 'revolving'
atoms. A particular crystal, evolving along lines of force, will produce
a polar aligned field of vibrations of a particular frequency range.

On 25/10/2016 9:35 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/10/16 21:16, wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 20:22:55 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 18:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 October 2016 18:14:18 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 25/10/16 17:15, Michael Chare wrote:

Would an elecrical oscillator such as the small ones shown in this
picture mind which way round they are installed?

http://tinyurl.com/jhfjnhd

If it's a quartz crystal, no.

If it's a whole circuit to make an oscillator, yes of course, it will
have a +ve and -ve, and generally an output too.

that photo is not of 'oscillators' of course. It's of crystals.
They are
*part* of an oscillator.

2 terminal oscillators are certainly possible. But they're just
crystals.



I've never seen a crystal oscillate on its own.

FWLIW I expect they do, moving back and forth due to environmental
vibration. With high Q they can't build up much movement, but it's not
zero.


NT

Bells don't ring without bell ringers.


A bell is designed to ring at a set of frequencies. A bell will have a
'natural' frequency. Every air molecule that hits it will depart a force
and the bell, if it is to make a sound at all due to the air, will do so
at it's 'natural' frequency. Because you don't hear it does not mean it
is not making the sound at all, at any level.

Nothing is still.

On 04/11/16 21:08, RayL12 wrote:
Because you don't hear it does not mean it is not making the sound at
all, at any level.
How very 'zen'

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.