I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them
every five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've
order replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how
long can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can
seriously go wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it
make the house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.

On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 10:03:43 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
There doesn't seem to be much that can
seriously go wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it
make the house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

I keep getting hassle off BG to get a new boiler for my Ideal Standard Mexico which is 25 years old and still going strong as it is built like a tractor. I tell them that I'm not interested.

In any case, that factory is just up the road and I can get a new boiler for £600 and get someone to fit it for £200. BG charges £4000.

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them
every five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've
order replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how
long can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can
seriously go wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it
make the house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.


Short answer, as long as you don't mind the inefficiency costs and you can
carry on making economic repairs.

For sure new boilers aren't lasting as long as the old cast iron lumps so
efficiency isn't the only consideration but sooner or later the old boiler
will become uneconomic to repair.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them
every five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've
order replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how
long can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can
seriously go wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it
make the house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.


I replaced my still functioning OK cast iron BF BE boiler some years ago.
It had as sophisticated controls as was possible. Changed it at the same
time as a major alteration to the area it was situated in. And since I
don't do that sort of thing every year, decided that was the time to
update. Went for a Veissmann with weather compensation - bought at the
best price and self installed. According to my records, it saved its cost
in just over 4 years. Of course winters etc are never identical. It's a
four bedroom Victorian semi with solid walls, so gas use is higher than
many.

The sums would have been very different if I'd paid BG etc to fit what
they tend to recommend. Ie, the boiler they make the biggest profit on.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/10/2016 10:03, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them every
five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've order
replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how long
can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can seriously go
wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it make the
house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.

You can always try and see if you can get spare parts using google. You
could also work out what you would do for a replacement, which would be
useful if you existing boiler fails in the winter and you want to
replace it quickly.


--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 18/10/2016 10:03, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them
every five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've
order replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how
long can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can
seriously go wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve.

Unless the HE springs a leak or the gas valve fails then there is not
much else to go wrong. Having said that, for every quids worth of gas
you feed it its probably throwing 35 to 40p of straight out of the flue.
So you would have to do the sums based on your gas bill to see where it
becomes more expensive to keep it going.

But will it
make the house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

Unlikely IME. Having CH matters, but the actual details seem to have
little effect on buying decisions or asking price.

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.

There is nothing actually wrong with running a pipe externally - its
commonly done to keep disruption and costs down. However I would not do
it myself...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 10:03:43 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them
every five years, or so.

Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

In article ,
therustyone wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 10:03:43 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn
Apollo. The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace
them every five years, or so.

Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:19:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

G.Harman

wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:19:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

G.Harman


In one of Ronald Top's 'Industrial Revelations - Europe' programs,
there's this wonderful steam-powered log sawing machine. They just
throw the offcuts into the firebox to keep it going.

On 20/10/16 12:21, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:19:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

G.Harman


In one of Ronald Top's 'Industrial Revelations - Europe' programs,
there's this wonderful steam-powered log sawing machine. They just
throw the offcuts into the firebox to keep it going.

Problem with steam is power to weight.

so BIG fixed installations, or a very very efficient low weight boilers
like a nuclear reactor that doesn't need thousand of tonnes of coal.

--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 18/10/2016 10:03, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn Apollo.
The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace them every
five years, or so. No big deal - they don't cost much, and I've order
replacements for the next time. But I can't help wondering - how long
can the thing last? There doesn't seem to be much that can seriously go
wrong with it, apart from maybe the gas valve. But will it make the
house difficult to sell, if we ever decide to?

One of the reasons I ask is that my sister had a new boiler fitted a
couple of years ago (because she was told 'you can't get the parts for
these', which I don't believe), and has to have someone out to it about
once a year. Also, it had to be sited in a different place, and now she
has a long gas pipe running along and up the outside wall, which doesn't
seem right.



The answer is two-fold, you can keep it going as long as you can get
spares or can repair broken items.
Or you want a much more modern boiler, .... it could be you want to
get rid of pilot, want a small fan assisted condensing unit.

When it comes to selling house not having an A rated bolier will be
noted, but if it is working and you have a gas safe certificate for it
.... unlikely to affect sale.

In article ,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:19:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

Using gas to heat water, as in a domestic boiler? Or oil?

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 14:46:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

Using gas to heat water, as in a domestic boiler? Or oil?

What the source of heat is is irrelevant to your question
" Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?" as you wrote it.

If you wanted to break it down into subsets of steam engines and how
their steam is produced you should have been more specific.

G.Harman

In article ,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 14:46:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

Using gas to heat water, as in a domestic boiler? Or oil?

What the source of heat is is irrelevant to your question
" Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?" as you wrote it.

If you wanted to break it down into subsets of steam engines and how
their steam is produced you should have been more specific.

Simply pointing out that an ancient boiler doesn't make any sense these
days. Same as steam engines.

Unless your boiler is nuclear powered, of course.

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 16:33:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

In power plants and nuclear submarines they are still common.
Your point stands for smaller set ups like railway locomtives road
transport,and agriculture.

Using gas to heat water, as in a domestic boiler? Or oil?

What the source of heat is is irrelevant to your question
" Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?" as you wrote it.

If you wanted to break it down into subsets of steam engines and how
their steam is produced you should have been more specific.

Simply pointing out that an ancient boiler doesn't make any sense these
days. Same as steam engines.

I don't dispute that, just that many people think Steam engine =
something like Thomas the tank engine and forget about the turbines in
power plants.

Unless your boiler is nuclear powered, of course.

An they are an important component of CCGT power plants where the
boiler is heated by the exhaust of the gas turbines , it is one of
the things that make the whole approach of CCGT plants achieve some
reasonably high efficiency figures.

G.Harman

On Thursday, 20 October 2016 11:20:56 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
therustyone wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 10:03:43 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn
Apollo. The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace
them every five years, or so.

Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as efficient and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years. But I gather from comments in this group that the new generation of boilers don't last too long and another new one would be needed at 10 years. So am I really saving?

On 21/10/16 08:21, therustyone wrote:

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as efficient and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years.

Your boiler will be at least 70% efficient.
Good luck with finding one that is twice as efficient..

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/16 08:21, therustyone wrote:

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as
efficient and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years.

Your boiler will be at least 70% efficient.
Good luck with finding one that is twice as efficient..


It would be interesting to see if an old boiler could be made more
efficient. A longer heat exchanger with larger fins, perhaps?

therustyone wrote:
On Thursday, 20 October 2016 11:20:56 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
therustyone wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 10:03:43 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I just replaced the top socket and thermocouple in our old Thorn
Apollo. The pilot light kept going out, and I find I have to replace
them every five years, or so.

Same problem with my Glow-worm Space Saver 50, installed circa 1975 I
believe, two house-owners ago. Built like a steam engine.

And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines in
use these days?

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as efficient and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years. But I gather from comments in this group that the new generation of boilers don't last too long and another new one would be needed at 10 years. So am I really saving?


My main objection is reliability, too. Both as a result of what I've
read here, and from my sister's experience. They also sound
complicated. I don't like buying things that I don't understand how
they work - I have what you might call 'trust issues' with the
professionals, and don't like to have to rely on them. Maybe I need to
find out a bit more about how modern boilers work? It might put my mind
at rest.

In article ,
therustyone wrote:
And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines
in use these days?

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as efficient
and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years.

What sort of boiler costs 3k? Gold plated? My 30 kW system Viesmann was
just over 1k. Took me a couple of days to fit it. If anyone is charging
1000 quid a day labour, find a better installer.



But I gather from comments in this group that the new generation of
boilers don't last too long and another new one would be needed at 10
years. So am I really saving?

--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My main objection is reliability, too. Both as a result of what I've
read here, and from my sister's experience. They also sound
complicated. I don't like buying things that I don't understand how
they work - I have what you might call 'trust issues' with the
professionals, and don't like to have to rely on them. Maybe I need to
find out a bit more about how modern boilers work? It might put my mind
at rest.

They're not actually as different as you might think. Main differences
likely to be flame moduation and sensors to make sure the burn is
efficient. Rather like a modern car.
But most decent modern boilers will have on board diagnostics too. Once
you go for microprocessor control, such things become easier.

In terms of breakdowns my old Potterton Kingfisher was far worse than my
modern boiler. Although generally just the thermocouple. Easy enough DIY
fix - but would have been costly to get a man in each time. It also
started leaking and required a re-build with new O rings between the heat
exchanger sections.

But because my house is old and large, my gas usage is above average. So
made more sense for me to update.

--
*Keep honking...I'm reloading.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
therustyone wrote:
And about as efficient. Ever wondered why you don't see steam engines
in use these days?

My gas spend is about £600 per year, so a new boiler twice as efficient
and costing £3K would pay for itself in 10 years.

What sort of boiler costs 3k? Gold plated? My 30 kW system Viesmann was
just over 1k. Took me a couple of days to fit it. If anyone is charging
1000 quid a day labour, find a better installer.

My present boiler, installed in 1989, uses a conventional flue, up a lined
chimney. To replace this with modern boiler would likely mean remodelling
the kitchen to fit it on an outside wall and rerouting a lot of pipework.
That's why I will keep it until dies though lack of spares.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England