Ovo energy supplier wants to fit Smart Meters but just like to ask if
there are any snags/watchit warning etc etc before agreeing (seems I
have a choice - which is nice). At the 'mo we jsut have the famous
spinning disc for elec and a gas meter.

I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

On 22/08/2016 18:08, mike wrote:
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

Well, that's the big if.

The other thing is - why do you want one?

Andy

mike wrote:

Ovo energy supplier wants to fit Smart Meters

People have probably got fed-up trotting out their pros and cons,
nothing has changed since the last time it was asked ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/uk.d-i-y/smartmeter$20%7Csort:relevance

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:26:44 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

mike wrote:

Ovo energy supplier wants to fit Smart Meters

People have probably got fed-up trotting out their pros and cons,
nothing has changed since the last time it was asked ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/uk.d-i-y/smartmeter$20%7Csort:relevance



Thanks - well i asked 'cos i don't live on ng's. But as I say, thanks
anyway for the link - and glad I took a look. To save anyone else
asking rsn - here's a few reasons from that link to NOT go for it.

***
I am getting one next week - complete with wi-fi connection to my
router.
Does anyone have such, and any comments on it?
Dave Liquorice
....
I am getting one next week - complete with wi-fi connection to my
router.

They want to use your WiFi and presumably net connection? Is this for
the meter operators useage upload and control of the meter?

F. that for a game of soldiers. If their system needs a 'net
connection they can jolly well provide their own or pay me £40/month
to piggy back on mine...

Even if it's only so you can see a pretty web page of useage WiFi APs
aren't free and your firewall/router will need a config change to
deny the the meter net access. You don't know how to do this (do
you...) so you are going to have "call someone out": £75 call out
charge (inc first hour and 50 miles travel) then £25/hour in 15
minute increments rounded up. Shouldn't take 'em more than a couple
of hours.

Only 1/4 in jest...


Is this a fully smart meter ie one that lets OVO read it when they
want
to or simply one to inform you of your personal consumption visa your
home network?

I used to be with OVO but got out when they wanted to charge me £60 to
change to one of their newer tariffs. The charge was the same to move
to
another supplier and £30 cashback when I moved. Plain daft marketing
strategy on their part IMHO.

01/07/2015
- show quoted text -
HA! so if these are fully smart meters, then they can cut you off
remotely. Having done so (maybe in error?) then there will be no wifi
connection to enable them to switch you back on!
Brilliant-- not!

*** etc more on link ***



The reason I wanted to use smart meter was to stop having to grovel
unders the stairs every month to read the two meters. (back troubles).

Let's say you stick a wifi equipped smart meter on your home network.

It has the ability to read every single wifi packet sent or received on
that network and it has the ability to connect to any device anywhere on
the Internet.

Is that really what you want?

99% of your security comes from your router protecting you from attacks
from outside. Normally it will only let through responses to connections
*you* have made.

99% of your wifi security comes from a password that means only devices
you allow to see your internal network, can see it.

Now stick on a box that you allow access to your wifi, and which is
fully connected to the internet?

And probably one that 'upgrades ' itself over the internet?

How ling before it 'upgrades;' itself to a hacked bit of trojan horse
that scans your home network for all the bank details and logins and
email addresses in use.

Of course its possible to build a firewall between 'appliance net' and
'home net' but who has the ability to do that?






--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 23/08/2016 11:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Let's say you stick a wifi equipped smart meter on your home network.

Lets say you fit one of the smart meters that the companies actually
supply, the ones that don't have WiFi and use the mobile network to send
data back.

You can tell they don't use WiFi because they will ask you what your
mobile reception is like but they don't ask if you have an internet
connection or even a phone line.

You can then safely disregard all the following.


It has the ability to read every single wifi packet sent or received on
that network and it has the ability to connect to any device anywhere on
the Internet.

Is that really what you want?

99% of your security comes from your router protecting you from attacks
from outside. Normally it will only let through responses to connections
*you* have made.

99% of your wifi security comes from a password that means only devices
you allow to see your internal network, can see it.

Now stick on a box that you allow access to your wifi, and which is
fully connected to the internet?

And probably one that 'upgrades ' itself over the internet?

How ling before it 'upgrades;' itself to a hacked bit of trojan horse
that scans your home network for all the bank details and logins and
email addresses in use.

Of course its possible to build a firewall between 'appliance net' and
'home net' but who has the ability to do that?

mike used his keyboard to write :
They want to use your WiFi and presumably net connection? Is this for
the meter operators useage upload and control of the meter?

They don't use YOUR LAN or WiFi, they use a mobile sim to phone data
home.

You can then use your PC to log into their web site, to see that data,
or watch the indoor display unit.

On 23/08/16 14:35, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
mike used his keyboard to write :
They want to use your WiFi and presumably net connection? Is this for
the meter operators useage upload and control of the meter?

They don't use YOUR LAN or WiFi, they use a mobile sim to phone data home.

You can then use your PC to log into their web site, to see that data,
or watch the indoor display unit.

well that at lest is almost secure


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

mike wrote:
Ovo energy supplier wants to fit Smart Meters


NO NO NO!!!!!

but just like to ask if
there are any snags/watchit warning etc etc before agreeing (seems I
have a choice - which is nice). At the 'mo we jsut have the famous
spinning disc for elec and a gas meter.

I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

mike wrote :
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

OVO installed SM's here in June...

Pro
1. You know exactly what your consumption is second by second on the
indoor display.
2. You know exactly what your consumption was every 30min, per day, per
week, month recorded/ stored via their web site.
3. You no longer need to look at the readings and let them know, they
are uploaded every night.

Cons
They, or if hacked another, could cut you off in an instant. Risk tiny.

On 23/08/16 14:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
mike wrote :
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

OVO installed SM's here in June...

Pro
1. You know exactly what your consumption is second by second on the
indoor display.
2. You know exactly what your consumption was every 30min, per day, per
week, month recorded/ stored via their web site.
3. You no longer need to look at the readings and let them know, they
are uploaded every night.

Cons
They, or if hacked another, could cut you off in an instant. Risk tiny.

You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :
You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

But does it really matter?

If someone were really that interested, my gas and leccy cupboards are
outside and if someone so desperately wanted to, the could sneak round
and get my readings directly. All they need is a 10p triangular key and
a pen.

On 23/08/16 14:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :
You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

But does it really matter?

If someone were really that interested, my gas and leccy cupboards are
outside and if someone so desperately wanted to, the could sneak round
and get my readings directly. All they need is a 10p triangular key and
a pen.

No, you missed my point which wasn't actually a ppint since your meter
doesn't use wifi anyway.

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Tuesday, 23 August 2016 14:41:52 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :

You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

But does it really matter?

You can work out when people are away on holiday by analysing such data. It's only a matter of time before some criminal organisation does this to pick houses to burgle.

If someone were really that interested, my gas and leccy cupboards are
outside and if someone so desperately wanted to, the could sneak round
and get my readings directly. All they need is a 10p triangular key and
a pen.

Way too labour intensive a way to be workable. A hacker & computer analysing 100,000 homes could however be profitable.

If there's one thing computing history teaches us, it's that some degree of paranoia is warranted with computer data. Of course some never learn.


NT

On 23/08/2016 16:24, wrote:
On Tuesday, 23 August 2016 14:41:52 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :

You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

But does it really matter?

You can work out when people are away on holiday by analysing such data. It's only a matter of time before some criminal organisation does this to pick houses to burgle.

If someone were really that interested, my gas and leccy cupboards are
outside and if someone so desperately wanted to, the could sneak round
and get my readings directly. All they need is a 10p triangular key and
a pen.

Way too labour intensive a way to be workable. A hacker & computer analysing 100,000 homes could however be profitable.

If there's one thing computing history teaches us, it's that some degree of paranoia is warranted with computer data. Of course some never learn.


Do you arrange to down- and up-load data over your internet connection
at home while you are away?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

wrote
Harry Bloomfield wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

You no longer need to protect private data on your network,
it is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.

But does it really matter?

You can work out when people are away on holiday by analysing such data.

You can do that by analysing their mobile phone records too. No one bothers.

It's only a matter of time before some criminal
organisation does this to pick houses to burgle.

How odd that it hasnt happened with the mobile phone records.

Or the records of the fuel they buy for the car either.

Or the airline tickets they buy either.

Or the records of what grocerys they buy either.

If someone were really that interested, my gas and leccy
cupboards are outside and if someone so desperately
wanted to, the could sneak round and get my readings
directly. All they need is a 10p triangular key and a pen.

Way too labour intensive a way to be workable. A hacker &
computer analysing 100,000 homes could however be profitable.

See above.

If there's one thing computing history teaches us, it's that
some degree of paranoia is warranted with computer data.

Clearly not with whether some criminal organisation
can work out whether you are away on holiday or not.

Of course some never learn.

And some like you are too stupid to have even noticed
that none of the stuff I listed has ever been used by any
criminal organisation to work out what places to burgle.

Presumably because the absolute vast bulk of the burglary
of individual private residences is done by stupid druggys
funding the drug habits and they dont actually snoop on
that data in the places they work for to make that easier.

On 23/08/2016 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/16 14:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
mike wrote :
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

OVO installed SM's here in June...

Pro
1. You know exactly what your consumption is second by second on the
indoor display.
2. You know exactly what your consumption was every 30min, per day, per
week, month recorded/ stored via their web site.
3. You no longer need to look at the readings and let them know, they
are uploaded every night.

Cons
They, or if hacked another, could cut you off in an instant. Risk tiny.

You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.


Some people worry about someone, who is entitled to, reading their meter
readings, others aren't paranoid.

On 23/08/2016 14:55, dennis@home wrote:
On 23/08/2016 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/16 14:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
mike wrote :
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

OVO installed SM's here in June...

Pro
1. You know exactly what your consumption is second by second on the
indoor display.
2. You know exactly what your consumption was every 30min, per day, per
week, month recorded/ stored via their web site.
3. You no longer need to look at the readings and let them know, they
are uploaded every night.

Cons
They, or if hacked another, could cut you off in an instant. Risk tiny.

You no longer need to protect private data on your network, it
is uploaded every night. And is no longer private.


Some people worry about someone, who is entitled to, reading their meter
readings, others aren't paranoid.
My meters are also outside, however when they came to fit smart readers
the model they had would not work from my electric meter as the distance
was too great.

On 23/08/2016 14:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
mike wrote :
I see they use a 'phone-type WAN to send the data to supplier - good
if secure I suppose.

OVO installed SM's here in June...

Pro
1. You know exactly what your consumption is second by second on the
indoor display.
2. You know exactly what your consumption was every 30min, per day, per
week, month recorded/ stored via their web site.
3. You no longer need to look at the readings and let them know, they
are uploaded every night.

But why would you want to ?. I read my meter regularly, at the same
time and write the value and date on a bit of paper next to the meter.
I know exactly what my daily consumption is summer and winter. All
done with a biro.

Unless they intend to enforce differential charging that varies
unpredictably with supply vs load, I cannot see any point in a
smart meter. It will of course be very useful to collect the
'missing' fuel duty from people who have bought electric cars
with the sole aim to save money, since it will know what
devices are using power.

Andrew brought next idea :
But why would you want to ?. I read my meter regularly, at the same
time and write the value and date on a bit of paper next to the meter.
I know exactly what my daily consumption is summer and winter. All
done with a biro.

I was doing that and feeding the data into a spreadsheet once per week,
but it really didn't compare to the 30 minute samples I get now, nor
the instantaineous consumption readings via the remote display.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:54:14 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

But why would you want to ?. I read my meter regularly, at the
same
time and write the value and date on a bit of paper next to the
meter.
I know exactly what my daily consumption is summer and winter. All
done with a biro.

I was doing that and feeding the data into a spreadsheet once per week,
but it really didn't compare to the 30 minute samples I get now, nor
the instantaineous consumption readings via the remote display.

1 minute logging interval for consuption, 5 mins for voltage here.
"Real time" display of consumption. Web based plots of both
available. Not a smart meter in sight or letting a third party have
the data either.

CuurentCost consumption monitor for power, UPS for voltage, via the
server running linux. A Raspberry Pi could do all of it without
breaking into a sweat.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 29/08/2016 22:20, Dave Liquorice wrote:


CuurentCost consumption monitor for power, UPS for voltage, via the
server running linux. A Raspberry Pi could do all of it without
breaking into a sweat.


Currentcost doesn't measure power only current and it estimates power.
Do you correct it using the voltage info from the UPS?

A Pi can do it without the currentcost if you buy a cheap current sensor
or time the pulses from the meter if it has the LED.