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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Creeping gutters
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long
(6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. |
#2
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Creeping gutters
In message , Tim Watts
writes I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. I've done this with some of mine. Small stainless woodscrew locking one end to the joiner. Last guttering put up here by a builder had a white interior finish. I can't say if it helps as it is not in a sunny position. -- Tim Lamb |
#3
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Creeping gutters
On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 9:32:32 AM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. It doesn't sound like your supplier was very good at sourcing architecturally sound products. Maybe the environmental conditions are different where they are made these days although as far as I know China is still above ground. |
#4
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Creeping gutters
Tim Watts wrote:
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. You could try a bit of silicone lubricant as an experiment. There is clearly some sort of ratchet action going on as the gutter expands and contracts. Another thought: if you put a small screw through the outer end of some of the clips into the edge of the gutter, the clips might act as a bit of spring assistance to re-closed the joints on contraction maybe?? idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Bob |
#5
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/16 10:03, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 9:32:32 AM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote: I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. It doesn't sound like your supplier was very good at sourcing architecturally sound products. Maybe the environmental conditions are different where they are made these days although as far as I know China is still above ground. Brett Martin are a major UK manufacturer: http://www.brettmartin.com/en-gb/plu...r-systems.aspx Mine's the 106 deep ogee... It might be more accurate to say "plastic gutters are crap", but the effort in putting metal up is much higher... And I needed high flow gutters as the drains are around the back. |
#6
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/16 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote:
Tim Watts wrote: I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. You could try a bit of silicone lubricant as an experiment. There is clearly some sort of ratchet action going on as the gutter expands and contracts. Another thought: if you put a small screw through the outer end of some of the clips into the edge of the gutter, the clips might act as a bit of spring assistance to re-closed the joints on contraction maybe?? idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Bob The notching idea sounds like an idea - thanks for that I think a bit of plumbers grease might be a good idea. The other problem with ogee is that the flat bits are not very flat anymore, so the seals are not perfect. Bit of grease should help that too. |
#7
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/2016 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote:
idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Yup, small notches cut[1] into the top edge of the gutter such that the clips will clip in slightly easier, but are also then prevented from moving to the side much. It seems to be a common solution. [1] Half inch file would probably do the job nicely. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#8
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Creeping gutters
Tim Watts wrote:
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. It's the clips. The clips they make nowadays are hardly touching the gutter - they have small pea-sized extrusions on the inside so that the gutter, when clipped in, is only touching the clip in 3 one mm spots, this allows the gutter to move more freely. see he http://www.drainagecentral.co.uk/Pro...-Bracket-BR083 These are for ogee but not sure if they're deepflow |
#9
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Creeping gutters
John Rumm wrote:
On 06/08/2016 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote: idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Yup, small notches cut[1] into the top edge of the gutter such that the clips will clip in slightly easier, but are also then prevented from moving to the side much. It seems to be a common solution. [1] Half inch file would probably do the job nicely. Stopping a gutter from expanding and contracting isn't a good idea, it's still going to do it, but if notched out like this, it will simply pull itself out of the joint / outlet / corner. If it's notched at both ends so that it's fixed tight, it will snap the clip off the fascia. |
#10
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Creeping gutters
In message , Phil L
writes John Rumm wrote: On 06/08/2016 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote: idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Yup, small notches cut[1] into the top edge of the gutter such that the clips will clip in slightly easier, but are also then prevented from moving to the side much. It seems to be a common solution. [1] Half inch file would probably do the job nicely. Stopping a gutter from expanding and contracting isn't a good idea, it's still going to do it, but if notched out like this, it will simply pull itself out of the joint / outlet / corner. If it's notched at both ends so that it's fixed tight, it will snap the clip off the fascia. I suppose you could make an assessment of temperature/expansion and file the slot with that in mind. I think fixing one end only safer and then only where this is a regular problem. -- Tim Lamb |
#11
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/16 13:45, Phil L wrote:
Tim Watts wrote: I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. It's the clips. The clips they make nowadays are hardly touching the gutter - they have small pea-sized extrusions on the inside so that the gutter, when clipped in, is only touching the clip in 3 one mm spots, this allows the gutter to move more freely. see he http://www.drainagecentral.co.uk/Pro...-Bracket-BR083 These are for ogee but not sure if they're deepflow Those are the ones I have - Prostyle... |
#12
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/16 13:49, Phil L wrote:
John Rumm wrote: On 06/08/2016 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote: idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Yup, small notches cut[1] into the top edge of the gutter such that the clips will clip in slightly easier, but are also then prevented from moving to the side much. It seems to be a common solution. [1] Half inch file would probably do the job nicely. Stopping a gutter from expanding and contracting isn't a good idea, it's still going to do it, but if notched out like this, it will simply pull itself out of the joint / outlet / corner. If it's notched at both ends so that it's fixed tight, it will snap the clip off the fascia. I understood the original suggestion to make the notch wider (by about 5mm either side I reckon) so it can slide, but there are definite limits... |
#13
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Creeping gutters
On Saturday, 6 August 2016 09:32:32 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. Incorrect installation. One end (or the middle) needs to be anchored, the other end(s) free to move with expansion. As long as one end is anchored, it goes back to it's starting point when it contracts.. |
#14
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Creeping gutters
In article ,
Tim Watts writes: I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. Take it part and clean it, particularly the rubber seals which may have collected grit. You might need to replace the rubber - some guttering models have replacement rubbers available, otherwise buy whatever is the cheapest fitting and either swap the rubbers or swap the whole fitting. Grease the rubbers with silicone grease on assembly so the joints slide easily as they expand and contract. Couplers should be fixed to facia and spaced such that the gutter will never contract far enough to drop out. You might be able to find an installation leaflet online to tell you what that distance is for your model of gutter using standard guttering lengths. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#15
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/16 22:00, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Tim Watts writes: I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. Take it part and clean it, particularly the rubber seals which may have collected grit. You might need to replace the rubber - some guttering models have replacement rubbers available, otherwise buy whatever is the cheapest fitting and either swap the rubbers or swap the whole fitting. Grease the rubbers with silicone grease on assembly so the joints slide easily as they expand and contract. Couplers should be fixed to facia and spaced such that the gutter will never contract far enough to drop out. You might be able to find an installation leaflet online to tell you what that distance is for your model of gutter using standard guttering lengths. Hi Andrew, Apart from the grease, I did do most of that. There's a mark on the couplers that shows where the cut end should come - it is 10mm from a stop ridge to allow for expansion. Perhaps what's happening is that I only sprayed silicone lubricant on rather than grease - and the end stop ridge is not very big so the gutter can get past it. |
#16
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/2016 13:49, Phil L wrote:
John Rumm wrote: On 06/08/2016 10:09, Bob Minchin wrote: idea 3: how about notching the gutter at the ends where the coupling clips sit to the joint can slide but not slide out. Possibly in combination with lubricating the seals. Yup, small notches cut[1] into the top edge of the gutter such that the clips will clip in slightly easier, but are also then prevented from moving to the side much. It seems to be a common solution. [1] Half inch file would probably do the job nicely. Stopping a gutter from expanding and contracting isn't a good idea, it's still going to do it, but if notched out like this, it will simply pull itself out of the joint / outlet / corner. If it's notched at both ends so that it's fixed tight, it will snap the clip off the fascia. I have seen it done many times, and its not been a problem. The notch is a little wider than the clip, and the clip has some lateral give in it, so it can still expand and contract, its just much harder to pull right apart or "walk" itself persistently in one direction. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#18
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Creeping gutters
In article ,
Tim Watts writes: On 06/08/16 22:00, Andrew Gabriel wrote: Take it part and clean it, particularly the rubber seals which may have collected grit. You might need to replace the rubber - some guttering models have replacement rubbers available, otherwise buy whatever is the cheapest fitting and either swap the rubbers or swap the whole fitting. Grease the rubbers with silicone grease on assembly so the joints slide easily as they expand and contract. Couplers should be fixed to facia and spaced such that the gutter will never contract far enough to drop out. You might be able to find an installation leaflet online to tell you what that distance is for your model of gutter using standard guttering lengths. Hi Andrew, Apart from the grease, I did do most of that. There's a mark on the couplers that shows where the cut end should come - it is 10mm from a stop ridge to allow for expansion. Perhaps what's happening is that I only sprayed silicone lubricant on rather than grease - and the end stop ridge is not very big so the gutter can get past it. Silcone spray should be fine. If you assemble just using the guide markers, the guttering is at an unknown percentage of its max expansion. If it was at, say, 100% of its max expansion, it should really be assembled with the guttering to the stop ridge. OK, this is unlikely as it would be rather hot to handle, but you get the idea. I suspect max expansion depends on colour too. My brother had some black half-round guttering fitted, but it's white inside, which is to reduce the solar gain and expansion. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#19
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Creeping gutters
On 06/08/2016 09:32, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm getting a lot of trouble with two sections of gutters - the long (6m) straight sections down 2 sides of the house. These are made up of 2x 3m lengths of Brett deep plastic guttering (non round, more of a stepped square high flow). In the summer, one piece on each side walks along due to thermal expansion and contraction. One side comes out of its joint several times a year and the other managed 3 years in service until it popped. I could replace both sides with sections with shorter bits and more joints. But I was wondering if there were any other solutions? I was wondering if a small screw through one end of the joint to the fixed coupler might work - or whether that would just end up cracking the plastic. No such problems with our continuous aluminium gutters. Mike |
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