Thought I'd be the odd one out and post a d-i-y question.

Need to fix a load of 38mm treated batten to exterior brick and block
walls. There is not much imposed load ... these are battens onto which
will be fixed wood cladding.

Wall has earth on one side so brickwork is wet .... will fit a dpc
between batten and wall to help.


Battens will vary depending on wall height, between 400 & 600mm high

Looking for a good fixing screw that will last ..... had thought of 2 of
these per batten ...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-cou...100-pack/49120

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

Anybody any comments as to best approach and what screws ...

On 7/6/2016 12:22 PM, rick wrote:
Thought I'd be the odd one out and post a d-i-y question.

Need to fix a load of 38mm treated batten to exterior brick and block
walls. There is not much imposed load ... these are battens onto which
will be fixed wood cladding.

Wall has earth on one side so brickwork is wet .... will fit a dpc
between batten and wall to help.


Battens will vary depending on wall height, between 400 & 600mm high

Looking for a good fixing screw that will last ..... had thought of 2 of
these per batten ...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-cou...100-pack/49120


However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

Anybody any comments as to best approach and what screws ...

Don't know how well these will tolerate wet in the long term although
with multiple fittings per batten I would have thought they would be
pretty secure.

If you've never used them, Multi Monti bolts are pretty good. They need
an accurate pilot hole, but one thing they are good for is that you can
go quite close to the edge of a brick in safety. They are normally easy
to remove and replace (handy in one of my applications where I once
needed to take a trellis fixing down once to allow materials to be
passed over a boundary wall). They seem to have effective plating.

On 06/07/2016 12:22, rick wrote:

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.

It actually says: "These fixings are no good for battens as the screw
part sticks through the top of what you are fixing. You need a flush
fixing for battens, so good quality countersunk screws and wall plugs
will work best."

However, the DeWalt ones you linked to are countersunk, so that
particular point is not an issue.

On 7/6/2016 12:45 PM, GB wrote:
On 06/07/2016 12:22, rick wrote:

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.

It actually says: "These fixings are no good for battens as the screw
part sticks through the top of what you are fixing. You need a flush
fixing for battens, so good quality countersunk screws and wall plugs
will work best."

However, the DeWalt ones you linked to are countersunk, so that
particular point is not an issue.


OK I read that different .. thought poster had issue with the fact that
the screw would have treads in the batten ... and that was the issue.
Could result it not pulling wood tight against brickwork maybe ?

The Monti variant in other reply has unthreaded portion (bolt rather
than screw) .. and that should negate that issue.

On 7/6/2016 12:38 PM, newshound wrote:

Multi Monti bolts are pretty good. They need
an accurate pilot hole, but one thing they are good for is that you can
go quite close to the edge of a brick in safety. They are normally easy
to remove and replace (handy in one of my applications where I once
needed to take a trellis fixing down once to allow materials to be
passed over a boundary wall). They seem to have effective plating.

These ones ? .... is that right?

http://www.tradefixdirect.com/nails-...untersunk-head

On Wednesday, 6 July 2016 12:22:11 UTC+1, rick wrote:

Thought I'd be the odd one out and post a d-i-y question.

Need to fix a load of 38mm treated batten to exterior brick and block
walls. There is not much imposed load ... these are battens onto which
will be fixed wood cladding.

Wall has earth on one side so brickwork is wet .... will fit a dpc
between batten and wall to help.


Battens will vary depending on wall height, between 400 & 600mm high

Looking for a good fixing screw that will last ..... had thought of 2 of
these per batten ...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-cou...100-pack/49120

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

Anybody any comments as to best approach and what screws ...

stainless or brass then.


NT

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:22:00 +0100, rick
wrote:

snip

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

I would normally go for a std plug and SS screw myself, that way the
screw won't rust away (and no coating to damage) or expand and crack a
brick etc.

Being as the load will be in shear they don't need to be any thicker
than you can get in a suitable (long) length?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jtyr79n

Cheap enough to go for more / batten?

Cheers, T i m

On 06/07/2016 13:01, rick wrote:
On 7/6/2016 12:45 PM, GB wrote:
On 06/07/2016 12:22, rick wrote:

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.

It actually says: "These fixings are no good for battens as the screw
part sticks through the top of what you are fixing. You need a flush
fixing for battens, so good quality countersunk screws and wall plugs
will work best."

However, the DeWalt ones you linked to are countersunk, so that
particular point is not an issue.


OK I read that different .. thought poster had issue with the fact that
the screw would have treads in the batten ... and that was the issue.
Could result it not pulling wood tight against brickwork maybe ?

The Monti variant in other reply has unthreaded portion (bolt rather
than screw) .. and that should negate that issue.


I would drill a clearance hole in the timber and then drill the concrete
through that.

Otherwise, are you planning to drill the timber with the masonry bit and
then go through into the concrete? That might work, I guess, but it's
not something I've tried.

On 06/07/2016 12:45, GB wrote:
On 06/07/2016 12:22, rick wrote:

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.

It actually says: "These fixings are no good for battens as the screw
part sticks through the top of what you are fixing. You need a flush
fixing for battens, so good quality countersunk screws and wall plugs
will work best."

However, the DeWalt ones you linked to are countersunk, so that
particular point is not an issue.


All you need is a Bosch multi material drill bit & some hammer fixings.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ill+Bit/p96753

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p24104?table=no





--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 7/6/2016 1:03 PM, rick wrote:
On 7/6/2016 12:38 PM, newshound wrote:

Multi Monti bolts are pretty good. They need
an accurate pilot hole, but one thing they are good for is that you can
go quite close to the edge of a brick in safety. They are normally easy
to remove and replace (handy in one of my applications where I once
needed to take a trellis fixing down once to allow materials to be
passed over a boundary wall). They seem to have effective plating.

These ones ? .... is that right?

http://www.tradefixdirect.com/nails-...untersunk-head

That's it. I've only used the hex headed version, don't recall seeing
those when I was shopping (some time ago)

On Wednesday, 6 July 2016 12:22:11 UTC+1, rick wrote:
Thought I'd be the odd one out and post a d-i-y question.

Need to fix a load of 38mm treated batten to exterior brick and block
walls. There is not much imposed load ... these are battens onto which
will be fixed wood cladding.

Wall has earth on one side so brickwork is wet .... will fit a dpc
between batten and wall to help.


Battens will vary depending on wall height, between 400 & 600mm high

Looking for a good fixing screw that will last ..... had thought of 2 of
these per batten ...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-cou...100-pack/49120

However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

Anybody any comments as to best approach and what screws ...

Stainless steel woodscrews. Available from Screwfix.
Plastic plugs.

On 7/6/2016 1:25 PM, T i m wrote:


I would normally go for a std plug and SS screw myself, that way the
screw won't rust away (and no coating to damage) or expand and crack a
brick etc.

Being as the load will be in shear they don't need to be any thicker
than you can get in a suitable (long) length?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jtyr79n



Was thinking of getting type which are part threaded .. usually if no
portion of the thread in the fixing it pulls to wall better ...

Not necessarily these - but this type:

http://tinyurl.com/hq9shd5

but maybe it isn't necessary, and fully threaded screws will be OK

Now this assumes I use Red rawlplugs these are 35mm long - and 90mm
screws.. not as long a fixing as I'd like, but if good holes & good
screws maybe it will be OK.
No high loads after all.

On 7/6/2016 2:01 PM, GB wrote:

I would drill a clearance hole in the timber and then drill the concrete
through that.

Otherwise, are you planning to drill the timber with the masonry bit and
then go through into the concrete? That might work, I guess, but it's
not something I've tried.


If I used concrete screws - would pre-drill timber first.

On 7/6/2016 4:23 PM, David Lang wrote:
On 06/07/2016 12:45, GB wrote:
=
All you need is a Bosch multi material drill bit & some hammer fixings.


http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p24104?table=no


Hammer fixings would work out expensive as I need around 400

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 22:49:29 +0100, rick
wrote:

On 7/6/2016 1:25 PM, T i m wrote:


I would normally go for a std plug and SS screw myself, that way the
screw won't rust away (and no coating to damage) or expand and crack a
brick etc.

Being as the load will be in shear they don't need to be any thicker
than you can get in a suitable (long) length?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jtyr79n



Was thinking of getting type which are part threaded .. usually if no
portion of the thread in the fixing it pulls to wall better ...

True, but only if 1) You haven't first drilled a hole though the
batten that doesn't allow the screw thread to grip the batten [1] or
2) the batten is sufficiently soft and the wall fixing good enough to
pull the thread though the batten.

Not necessarily these - but this type:

http://tinyurl.com/hq9shd5

but maybe it isn't necessary, and fully threaded screws will be OK

I think either would be ok, noting the above etc.

Now this assumes I use Red rawlplugs these are 35mm long - and 90mm
screws.. not as long a fixing as I'd like, but if good holes & good
screws maybe it will be OK.

I'm sure it will, depending how sound the wall is etc. There is
nothing stopping you inserting a plug a little deeper, (or use those
long strip plugs you cut to length yourself?) as long as the batten is
snugged up to the wall.

No high loads after all.

Quite. Friction between the batten and the wall should stop any side
loads on the screws (if you have set the plugs in a bit deeper) and
the screws will be in shear anyway (so you could probably just 'hang'
the battens on screws that long with no plugs at all g).

If you are at all unsure, just put an extra screw or two in?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I have no issue using all threaded screws though battens like that
but I won't use full threaded screws (machine or wood) when the thing
being retained needs to rotate at all (unless it's in a bushing etc).

On 06/07/2016 22:52, rick wrote:
On 7/6/2016 4:23 PM, David Lang wrote:
On 06/07/2016 12:45, GB wrote:
=
All you need is a Bosch multi material drill bit & some hammer fixings.


http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p24104?table=no


Hammer fixings would work out expensive as I need around 400

£35?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 06/07/2016 12:22, rick wrote:
Thought I'd be the odd one out and post a d-i-y question.

Need to fix a load of 38mm treated batten to exterior brick and block
walls. There is not much imposed load ... these are battens onto which
will be fixed wood cladding.

Wall has earth on one side so brickwork is wet .... will fit a dpc
between batten and wall to help.


Battens will vary depending on wall height, between 400 & 600mm high

Looking for a good fixing screw that will last ..... had thought of 2 of
these per batten ...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-cou...100-pack/49120


However on a bit of Googling saw some comments such as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0LXQG3S8ko

That says you should not use these for batten fixing only plug & screw
method.


As batten is 38mm thinking of using 100mm screws as per link ... would
give a good 60mm fixing.

Anybody any comments as to best approach and what screws ...

I used countersunk frame fixers for similar job. Just drill right
through batten into wall, countersink, hammer in frame fixed.

Mike

On 06/07/2016 22:50, rick wrote:
On 7/6/2016 2:01 PM, GB wrote:

I would drill a clearance hole in the timber and then drill the concrete
through that.

Otherwise, are you planning to drill the timber with the masonry bit and
then go through into the concrete? That might work, I guess, but it's
not something I've tried.


If I used concrete screws - would pre-drill timber first.

Then the threaded shank wouldn't be an issue. Just make the clearance
hole big enough.

On 06/07/2016 16:23, David Lang wrote:


All you need is a Bosch multi material drill bit ....
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...ill+Bit/p96753


I've never used one of those, and I'm interested in how they work in
practice. Can you drill the wood part with the drill's hammer action on?
Can you get them with SDS fittings?

GB wrote:

David Lang wrote:

All you need is a Bosch multi material drill bit ....

I've never used one of those, and I'm interested in how they work in
practice.Can you drill the wood part with the drill's hammer action on?

I used them to drill through uPVC into brick/block for for frame
fixings, I'd say hammer off through wood, hammer on when you reach
brick, even if starting in brick I'd have hammer off and slow gear just
to avoid wandering at the start.

Can you get them with SDS fittings?

Not seen them.