On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:30:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

It depends on where the current flows, there are no muscles in the hand
to contract just nerves, the hand control muscles are in the forearm so
if the current goes up the arm you will get sudden contractions and pain
from that.

Medicine's not really your strong suit, is it?

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:48:21 +0100, RayL12 wrote:


As for the slow electric shock build up, you think it may be skin
moisture build-up?

That's the only thing I can think of that would explain it.

On Sunday, 3 July 2016 11:29:19 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
What manner of wall socket is it even possible to stick your fingers in?
What do you mean by "uncovered"?

MK (and some others) used to do rather nice surface 13A sockets with the contacts and gubbins mounted on the baseplate which screwed to the wall, and the shutter was on the inside of the front cover which fitted on to the base.

Owain

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 00:47:25 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

The skin on your fingers must be unusually thicker than most and very
likely drier. There is some conduction but since most of the volt drop
must be across the high resistance skin barrier, what little current is
flowing must be building up heat which must be causing higher
evaporation from the sub-dermal layer which I surmise raises the water
content in the relatively thick and drier outer epidermal layer
increasing its conductivity to accelerate the heat build up which you
seem to be sensing rather than the expected effect on the nerves due to
electrical excitation normally described as a tingling or electric
shock.

That sounds incredibly scientific and entirely plausible. I reckon you're
wasting your skills clearing out blocked lavs. ;-)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 00:50:46 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Having seen the other replies, I have a feeling you'll like mine the
best. :-)

I do. I do, I do, I do!

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:48:29 -0700, harry wrote:

The 240V AC is only the rms ("average") voltage, the peak voltage is
much higher.

Yes, 339V I believe.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you touch can
discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge builds up and then
sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks far
more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:29:17 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

What manner of wall socket is it even possible to stick your fingers in?
What do you mean by "uncovered"?

Tim

Uncovered as in removed completely with the bare wires sticking out. Very
sloppy on my part I must admit. But there's only me living here so it's
not like I have kids to worry about.

On 03/07/2016 13:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you touch can
discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge builds up and then
sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks far
more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

Do you have any difficulty getting touch screens to respond to your touch?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

On 03/07/16 13:12, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:30:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

It depends on where the current flows, there are no muscles in the hand
to contract just nerves, the hand control muscles are in the forearm so
if the current goes up the arm you will get sudden contractions and pain
from that.

Medicine's not really your strong suit, is it?

Dense hasn't got a strong suit.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

John Rumm wrote:
On 03/07/2016 13:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you touch can
discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge builds up and then
sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks far
more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

Do you have any difficulty getting touch screens to respond to your touch?



I had about 18 months of reduced "touch screen touchiness" after a cold
injury to my fingers. I presume damage to the autonomic nerves in my
fingers reduced their sweatiness, and hence conductivity.

Tim

--
Trolls and troll feeders go in my killfile

John Rumm wrote:
On 03/07/2016 13:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you touch
can
discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge builds up and then
sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks far
more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

Do you have any difficulty getting touch screens to respond to your
touch?



Almost always unless I wet my fingers!

On 03/07/2016 13:12, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:30:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

It depends on where the current flows, there are no muscles in the hand
to contract just nerves, the hand control muscles are in the forearm so
if the current goes up the arm you will get sudden contractions and pain
from that.

Medicine's not really your strong suit, is it?


Perhaps you want to explain what you think is wrong with what I said?

On 03/07/2016 13:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you touch can
discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge builds up and then
sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks far
more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

For years, my partner suffered lots of static shocks when no-one around
her did. They reduced considerably when treated for long-standing (but
hitherto unrecognised) hypothyroidism. When I became hypothyroid, I
started to get them as well. Now, with treatment, we are both just about
"normal" - occasionally she or I might get one, but not especially
frequently or severely.

--
Rod

On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:22:20 +0100
polygonum wrote:

On 03/07/2016 13:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:11:17 +0100, polygonum wrote:

Perhaps the poorer conduction of dry skin is what makes static
discharges unpleasant - that is, if nice and wet, whatever you
touch can discharge readily, whereas when very dry, the charge
builds up and then sharply discharges?

An interesting suggestion. I *do* suffer badly from static shocks
far more than most people and have always wondered why that is.

For years, my partner suffered lots of static shocks when no-one
around her did. They reduced considerably when treated for
long-standing (but hitherto unrecognised) hypothyroidism. When I
became hypothyroid, I started to get them as well. Now, with
treatment, we are both just about "normal" - occasionally she or I
might get one, but not especially frequently or severely.


We used to have a dog who actually enjoyed the effect of touching us
with her nose behind our knees, and watching the resulting response as
the victim reacted to the shock. This was in Michigan in winters, so the
air indoors was dry and condusive to static charge. She appeared to
suffer no effects from the experience.

And I had a site boss once who had been struck by lightning, and
afterwards had no sense of hot or cold. He would sit there in winter in
his shirtsleeves, whereas everybody else was wrapped up in coats and
scarves.

--
Davey.

En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

I had about 18 months of reduced "touch screen touchiness" after a cold
injury to my fingers. I presume damage to the autonomic nerves in my
fingers reduced their sweatiness, and hence conductivity.

There's two types of touch screen, resistive (inferior) and capacitive.
Finger sweatiness would affect the response of the former, but not the
latter.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 12:21:55 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 00:47:25 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

The skin on your fingers must be unusually thicker than most and very
likely drier. There is some conduction but since most of the volt drop
must be across the high resistance skin barrier, what little current is
flowing must be building up heat which must be causing higher
evaporation from the sub-dermal layer which I surmise raises the water
content in the relatively thick and drier outer epidermal layer
increasing its conductivity to accelerate the heat build up which you
seem to be sensing rather than the expected effect on the nerves due to
electrical excitation normally described as a tingling or electric
shock.

That sounds incredibly scientific and entirely plausible. I reckon
you'd be wasting your skills clearing out blocked lavs. ;-)

There! fixed your post for you. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

Brian Gaff wrote

Yes indeed. However my original comment is about diabetes, as diabetic
neuropathy can reduce the feelings in extremities like fingers and toes,
so it pays to get it checked.

However I'm told by my doctor that most of us do not drink enough water.

But he doesn’t have any rigorous science to substantiate that claim.


"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
On 02/07/2016 20:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
A while ago I accidentally stuffed my fingers into an uncovered wall
socket and got a 240VAC shock (actual full 240 in this instance -
according to my Megger). But it wasn't a shock. It was a slowly building
tingle I wasn't even aware of to begin with, which slowly wormed its way
through my peripheral perceptions to eventually become fairly
unpleasant.

Could it be that you have very dry skin? Most of our innards (to use a
technical term) are rather wet more or less salt-solution so conduct
electricity very well, so most of the insulation that we get is from our
skin. Hence it is dangerous to work on live parts with wet hands.

My father, an electrician for some years, had even dryers skin than I
have so he needs to use hand cream rather often, and usually only got
mild shocks from touching 240v mains when his hands were dry.

I once used an AVO meter to measure the resistance of me and a few
friends with one hand gripping each eletrode, and found resistances that
varied over a couple of orders of magnitude. Clammy-handed people have
to be very careful with live mains, obviously.


--
Clive Page

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 12:33:45 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:29:17 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

What manner of wall socket is it even possible to stick your fingers
in?
What do you mean by "uncovered"?

Tim

Uncovered as in removed completely with the bare wires sticking out.
Very sloppy on my part I must admit. But there's only me living here so
it's not like I have kids to worry about.

It's the fact of there 'only being you living here', that might result
in 'only you dying here' is the worrying part of that last sentence. :-(

Of course, if you're a fatalist' (and all the signs point to that
possibility), you may not deem it as worrying a thought as most of the
rest of us might. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim+
escribió:

I had about 18 months of reduced "touch screen touchiness" after a cold
injury to my fingers. I presume damage to the autonomic nerves in my
fingers reduced their sweatiness, and hence conductivity.

There's two types of touch screen, resistive (inferior) and capacitive.
Finger sweatiness would affect the response of the former, but not the
latter.


iPhone. Isn't that capacitive? It was affected.

Tim

--
Trolls and troll feeders go in my killfile

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 16:55:11 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Perhaps you want to explain what you think is wrong with what I said?

"there are no muscles in the hand to contract just nerves, the hand
control muscles are in the forearm"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscles_of_the_hand

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 14:37:26 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Do you have any difficulty getting touch screens to respond to your
touch?

No.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 17:22:20 +0100, polygonum wrote:

For years, my partner suffered lots of static shocks when no-one around
her did. They reduced considerably when treated for long-standing (but
hitherto unrecognised) hypothyroidism. When I became hypothyroid, I
started to get them as well.

Curious! What could possibly account for that, I wonder?

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 18:58:09 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Of course, if you're a fatalist' (and all the signs point to that
possibility), you may not deem it as worrying a thought as most of the
rest of us might. :-)

You're an astonishingly perceptive individual I must say. You'd make a
great diagnostician.

En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

iPhone. Isn't that capacitive? It was affected.

Yes, it is. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 03/07/2016 19:00, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

I had about 18 months of reduced "touch screen touchiness" after a cold
injury to my fingers. I presume damage to the autonomic nerves in my
fingers reduced their sweatiness, and hence conductivity.

There's two types of touch screen, resistive (inferior) and capacitive.
Finger sweatiness would affect the response of the former, but not the
latter.

I was thinking primarily of capacitive (they have a hard feeling to the
resistive ones have a softer feel where the surface "gives" slightly as
you push on it).

I know of some people with very dry skin that have difficulty with
capacitive touch screens rather than resistive ones.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim+
escribió:

iPhone. Isn't that capacitive? It was affected.

Yes, it is. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time


Actually, I think it's just my failing memory. ;-)

It's suddenly come back to me that it was an old TomTom sat nav unit that
wouldn't play ball with me.

Tim

--
Trolls and troll feeders go in my killfile

On 03/07/2016 21:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 16:55:11 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Perhaps you want to explain what you think is wrong with what I said?

"there are no muscles in the hand to contract just nerves, the hand
control muscles are in the forearm"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscles_of_the_hand


So I meant the fingers.
None of those muscles can cause you to grip anything which is one of the
thing mentioned about just letting the point of contact go

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/07/16 13:12, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:30:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

It depends on where the current flows, there are no muscles in the hand
to contract just nerves, the hand control muscles are in the forearm so
if the current goes up the arm you will get sudden contractions and pain
from that.

Medicine's not really your strong suit, is it?

The question as to whether the hand contains muscles, is purely
a question of anatomy and physiology. Not of medicine which is the science and practice
of the diagnosis, treatment, and
prevention of disease.


Dense hasn't got a strong suit.

Well neither have yourself or Doom by the looks of things.

Not at least if knowing the meaning of simple English
words such as "anatomy" or "medicine" were to be made
an entry requirement.

While you may not be able to sue this private school
you attended for historical sex offences by teachers, on
present evidence you seem to have a good case for suing
for them for historical illiteracy at least.



michael adams

....

New Libertarianism consists essentially in scraping the barnacles
off the bottom of one of Philip Green's yachts; in the hopes
that some of his magic will rub off on you.

And maybe the price of a cup of tea.

On 04/07/2016 03:58, Tim+ wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim+
escribió:

iPhone. Isn't that capacitive? It was affected.

Yes, it is. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time


Actually, I think it's just my failing memory. ;-)

It's suddenly come back to me that it was an old TomTom sat nav unit that
wouldn't play ball with me.

The TomTom resistive display does need a little bit of "push" to
register a touch - its not as touch sensitive as modern capacitive
screens, and can't do multi touch either.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/07/2016 11:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/07/2016 03:58, Tim+ wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim+
escribió:

iPhone. Isn't that capacitive? It was affected.

Yes, it is. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time


Actually, I think it's just my failing memory. ;-)

It's suddenly come back to me that it was an old TomTom sat nav unit that
wouldn't play ball with me.

The TomTom resistive display does need a little bit of "push" to
register a touch - its not as touch sensitive as modern capacitive
screens, and can't do multi touch either.



Resistive screens don't care about the conductivity of what's touching
them as anyone who has used a biro as a stylus would be able to say.

Capacitive screens vary with technology.

My laptop has a wacom digitiser built in so that's another option.

I had a friend in the early 70's who was serious when he said, his
girlfriend, who would enjoy the sex they had, would orgasm any time up
to 3 hours later, but never during sex?


That's when she got round my place!

On 03/07/2016 10:54 AM, NY wrote:
"RayL12" wrote in message
...
(*) She had a number of medical peculiarities, some diagnosed in later
life. She had hypermobile joints (double-jointed) and she developed a
rare syndrome whereby her body continued to feel the effects of pain for
a long time after the stimulus was removed, to the extent that a surgeon
who needed to perform an important operation on her decided it was not
in her best interests for him to continue, as he could not guarantee
that she would not feel the pain of the incisions for many days after
the general anaesthetic had worn off.

I had a friend in the early 70's who was serious when he said, his
girlfriend, who would enjoy the sex they had, would orgasm any time up
to 3 hours later, but never during sex?

Interesting that the woman I knew said that she suffered from this too,
although I think in her case it was spontaneous rather than delayed
reaction to earlier sex. I remember her telling me how she had to keep a
straight face and act normally when she and her husband were being shown
round a new house by an estate agent and all of a sudden, with no
warning, she experienced "my own personal ecstasy" :-)


Haha! Something like a hammy 'Carry On...' actor?

On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 11:04:37 +0100, michael adams wrote:

The question as to whether the hand contains muscles, is purely a
question of anatomy and physiology. Not of medicine which is the science
and practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease.

I'm most awfully sorry. I had no idea that the subjects of anatomy and
physiology had been removed from the study of medicine. Silly me!