My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4
years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water
flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the
sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I
tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to
buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?
--
Dave Baker

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

I'm now thinking the well water is so acidic it's killed all the copper
pipe

pH test?

If it's that acidic, can't see it doing you much good.

Dave Baker wrote:

I'm now thinking the well water is so acidic it's killed all the
copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the entire house in plastic
pipe. However both failures were at soldered joints.

Flux left on soldered joints?

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 09:31:50 UTC+1, Dave Baker wrote:

My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4
years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water
flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the
sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I
tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to
buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

What do the water test results say?


NT

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html

On 29/06/16 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html

Beware. At leasts one person had their water supply tested as=n was told
that their property was condemned because it dint meet H & S


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 29/06/2016 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html


I finally found the water test results from when I bought the house. Ph
was 7.0 so not acidic. Looks liked bad soldering then.

--
Dave Baker

On 6/29/2016 10:35 AM, Dave Baker wrote:
On 29/06/2016 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html


I finally found the water test results from when I bought the house. Ph
was 7.0 so not acidic. Looks liked bad soldering then.


If it was sufficiently acidic to be dissolving copper, I think I would
expect you to see other signs of it, for example green deposits at small
leak sites or in limescale.

On 29/06/2016 10:35, Dave Baker wrote:
On 29/06/2016 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html


I finally found the water test results from when I bought the house. Ph
was 7.0 so not acidic. Looks liked bad soldering then.

Could it have frozen, or can the pipes move/vibrate?

Cheers
--
Syd

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 09:31:50 UTC+1, Dave Baker wrote:
My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4
years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water
flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the
sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I
tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to
buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?
--
Dave Baker

Rain/groundwater in non-limestone/chalk areas is always acidic.
The answer is plastic pipe. The glued stuff is best.
If you have a copper hot water tank, that will probably be ****ed as well.

The whole lot (except central heating, assuming it has been treated) IS likely ****ed.
Take a few bits of pipe out and check, likely gone to green gunge.
It's the dissolved CO2 in the water that does it.
Had the identical problem myself.

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 15:34:56 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 09:31:50 UTC+1, Dave Baker wrote:
My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4
years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water
flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the
sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I
tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to
buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?
--
Dave Baker

Rain/groundwater in non-limestone/chalk areas is always acidic.
The answer is plastic pipe. The glued stuff is best.
If you have a copper hot water tank, that will probably be ****ed as well.

The whole lot (except central heating, assuming it has been treated) IS likely ****ed.
Take a few bits of pipe out and check, likely gone to green gunge.
It's the dissolved CO2 in the water that does it.
Had the identical problem myself.

If it was lying unshielded from limestone or cement there is a problem with that too but lots of neglected properties are time bombs for new tenants due to freezing and thawing unnoticed

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 29/06/16 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html

Beware. At leasts one person had their water supply tested as=n was told
that their property was condemned because it dint meet H & S


Then get it tested without telling them where it was from.

--
Adam

If it was sufficiently acidic to be dissolving copper, I think I would
expect you to see other signs of it, for example green deposits at small
leak sites or in limescale.

AIUI, limescale is the result of alkaline water, and is dissolved by acid.

Here are pics of the leaking T joint I hacksawed out of the loft. The
top 22mm pipe had corroded to nothing and just fell out of the joint. It
was tolerably thick on one side of the pipe but wafer thin on the other.
Is this bad soldering, too much flux or water corrosion? I'm colourblind
so whether this is green corrosion is beyond me but hopefully someone
can tell from the pics. Sorry they aren't better quality.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2eps...9#.V3VK46Jv8dV

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nvzevl&s=9#.V3VK9qJv8dV


--
Dave Baker

Dave Baker wrote:
Here are pics of the leaking T joint I hacksawed out of the loft. The
top 22mm pipe had corroded to nothing and just fell out of the joint. It
was tolerably thick on one side of the pipe but wafer thin on the other.
Is this bad soldering, too much flux or water corrosion? I'm colourblind
so whether this is green corrosion is beyond me but hopefully someone
can tell from the pics. Sorry they aren't better quality.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2eps...9#.V3VK46Jv8dV

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nvzevl&s=9#.V3VK9qJv8dV



That's some serious corrosion! Oddly, it doesn't look like it's ever been
soldered though. I wonder if chronic leakage has accelerated the corrosion?

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

On 29/06/2016 11:21 AM, newshound wrote:
On 6/29/2016 10:35 AM, Dave Baker wrote:
On 29/06/2016 10:16, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:31:47 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?

You might find http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf useful.

It might be worth having the water supply tested if this has not been
done. See
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/drin...lity/index.htm Local
authority environmental health may be able to help - otherwise a list
of private laboratories is at
http://www.dwi.gov.uk/private-water-...oratories.html


I finally found the water test results from when I bought the house. Ph
was 7.0 so not acidic. Looks liked bad soldering then.


If it was sufficiently acidic to be dissolving copper, I think I would
expect you to see other signs of it, for example green deposits at small
leak sites or in limescale.


Also, earlier signs of acidic water(if drinking water) would be skin
problems and ill health.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:06:31 -0000 (UTC), Tim+
wrote:


That's some serious corrosion! Oddly, it doesn't look like it's ever been
soldered though. I wonder if chronic leakage has accelerated the corrosion?

Or indeed it has never been soldered. It wouldn't be the first time a
pipe and fittings have been assembled and the plumber has been
distracted and forgotten to complete the job by heating them. The
flux, especially the older non water soluble acid ones, can seal the
fitting moderately well.

On 30/06/2016 18:06, Tim+ wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
Here are pics of the leaking T joint I hacksawed out of the loft. The
top 22mm pipe had corroded to nothing and just fell out of the joint. It
was tolerably thick on one side of the pipe but wafer thin on the other.
Is this bad soldering, too much flux or water corrosion? I'm colourblind
so whether this is green corrosion is beyond me but hopefully someone
can tell from the pics. Sorry they aren't better quality.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2eps...9#.V3VK46Jv8dV

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nvzevl&s=9#.V3VK9qJv8dV



That's some serious corrosion! Oddly, it doesn't look like it's ever been
soldered though. I wonder if chronic leakage has accelerated the corrosion?

Tim

Yep there's definitely no evidence of any solder in there. I reckon
whoever did it simply forgot that part of the joint. The other two sides
seem fine. I'm thinking flux and leakage over many years have corroded
the pipe but I'm going to check other parts of the system very carefully
in case it's all going.

--
Dave Baker

In article ,
Dave Baker wrote:
Yep there's definitely no evidence of any solder in there. I reckon
whoever did it simply forgot that part of the joint. The other two sides
seem fine. I'm thinking flux and leakage over many years have corroded
the pipe but I'm going to check other parts of the system very carefully
in case it's all going.

I'd guess, having your own supply, the pressure isn't that high?

--
*I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 09:44:13 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

I'm thinking flux and leakage over many years have corroded
the pipe but I'm going to check other parts of the system very carefully
in case it's all going.

Is a pressure test a viable option? Fill everything with water, isolate combi,
WCs, and pump up manually to 11 bar, or more? (Why 11? Well, the German regs
say test metal pipework at 1.1 times maximum design pressure, which is 10
bar...)

This might show any leaks, unsoldered joints, corroded bits -- but might also
provoke a later failures.


Thomas Prufer

On 01/07/2016 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave Baker wrote:
Yep there's definitely no evidence of any solder in there. I reckon
whoever did it simply forgot that part of the joint. The other two sides
seem fine. I'm thinking flux and leakage over many years have corroded
the pipe but I'm going to check other parts of the system very carefully
in case it's all going.

I'd guess, having your own supply, the pressure isn't that high?

The pressure vessel on the well pump is inflated to 30 psi. The pump
kicks in at anything less than this and switches off again at 40 psi
from memory so that's the most the pipework would ever see.
--
Dave Baker

On 01/07/2016 14:09, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 09:44:13 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

I'm thinking flux and leakage over many years have corroded
the pipe but I'm going to check other parts of the system very carefully
in case it's all going.

Is a pressure test a viable option? Fill everything with water, isolate combi,
WCs, and pump up manually to 11 bar, or more? (Why 11? Well, the German regs
say test metal pipework at 1.1 times maximum design pressure, which is 10
bar...)

This might show any leaks, unsoldered joints, corroded bits -- but might also
provoke a later failures.


Thomas Prufer

I have no equipment to perform a pressure test with but I'll certainly
be checking the soldered and compression joints that I can get to. Most
of it is actually under the floor of the house and I've already found
another bad leak down there that was flooding the sump. Hey ho.

--
Dave Baker

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 20:26:56 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

I have no equipment to perform a pressure test with but I'll certainly
be checking the soldered and compression joints that I can get to.

Around here (Germany), they are rentable -- 12 to 25 EUR/day. 1/2" thread, and a
"precision pressure gauge", whatever that may be...


Thomas Prufer

On 01/07/2016 8:40 PM, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 20:26:56 +0100, Dave Baker wrote:

I have no equipment to perform a pressure test with but I'll certainly
be checking the soldered and compression joints that I can get to.

Around here (Germany), they are rentable -- 12 to 25 EUR/day. 1/2" thread, and a
"precision pressure gauge", whatever that may be...


Thomas Prufer




Oddly enough, I'm on a chat site now talking German tech. If the
German's say it's precision, it is.

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 16:14:09 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 15:34:56 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 09:31:50 UTC+1, Dave Baker wrote:
My 24 year old country house has its own well water supply. I moved in 4
years ago. Last week a soldered joint in the loft failed and water
flooded the loft and brought part of the ceiling down. Looking under the
sump beneath the ground floor another soldered joint was spraying out. I
tested the broken joint in the loft and the pipe has corroded to
buggery. Nothing left of it. I'm now thinking the well water is so
acidic it's killed all the copper pipe and I'll have to replumb the
entire house in plastic pipe. However both failures were at soldered
joints. How to tell if the entire system is ****ed or just the soldered
joints?
--
Dave Baker

Rain/groundwater in non-limestone/chalk areas is always acidic.
The answer is plastic pipe. The glued stuff is best.
If you have a copper hot water tank, that will probably be ****ed as well.

The whole lot (except central heating, assuming it has been treated) IS likely ****ed.
Take a few bits of pipe out and check, likely gone to green gunge.
It's the dissolved CO2 in the water that does it.
Had the identical problem myself.

If it was lying unshielded from limestone or cement there is a problem with that too but lots of neglected properties are time bombs for new tenants due to freezing and thawing unnoticed

Drivel.
Copper and steel are protected in an alkaline environment.
http://www.copper.org/applications/p..._concrete.html