dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
Capitol wrote

Yes its down *half* of what the pound is against the dollar.

That's just the start.

I hope not cos if the pound drops by twice as much we will need a bail
out from the EU and we won't get one.

Pound already halfway back against the dollar.

Meanwhile BP says 'OK, if that's the way it is, we will stay in the UK,
and adapt to it'

Some investment banks are already moving jobs out.
Morgan Stanley have announced the move of 2000 jobs to
Ireland/Frankfurt.

Well we know who was behind.....then

More paranoia?

Apparently since the poll closed lots of people in the uk have been
putting "whats the EU" into google.

Bet that was mostly tourists who want
to know what all the fuss is about.

Which just shows that the vote was not about leaving the EU in many
peoples minds.

You dont know that those were entitled to vote.

There has been a big spike in "how to buy bitcoins and gold".

Hardly surprising given that those do spike with instability.

There has also been a lot of searches for how to emigrate.

No loss to Britain if those do emigrate.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

On 24/06/16 15:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In ,
Tim wrote:

Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

We will just have to wait and see.



Plenty of them moved 1000's of jobs to India before. And then moved them
back.

Is India in the EU now? You live and learn.



Gawd.


What I said was that businesses move jobs on a whim or a fad and they
just as easily move them again (sometimes back) later.

Gawd.

The point was investment banks etc *have* to have premises in the EU to
trade in the EU. If the UK no longer has access to that market, just why
would they need to keep premises here? Perhaps as well as in the EU?



MS could just as easily be creating more jobs in England in the next 10
years when/if it decides maybe a non EU European presence might be
useful.

Great. 10 years isn't long to wait. England could be a third world country
by then.



Only if we don't control immigration!

michael adams wrote:
wrote in message ...

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Turn you down, did they ?

Was this before they explained that before applying you'd need a good first
degree and an MBA under your belt - four years in total along with a loan
of around £40-£50k.

Or maybe you never even got that far.

Did the receptionist call a security guard and have you escorted
off the premises?

Which can make some people bitter, I suppose.


michael adams

...





Well, the city dealing room daughter didn't have any of those
qualifications and still pulled in well over 100K a year some 20 years
ago. Mind you she did have to work up to 24hrs a day sometimes, but hard
work is normal if you want the rewards.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

I'd suggest you look at Aberdeen at the moment. Lots of restaurants etc
closing down due to the low oil prices so oil types losing their jobs. And
the housing market has crashed too. Worked stopped on new builds.

It doesn't take a degree in economics to work out why.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:49:12 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/06/16 13:02, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:08:23 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

snip

Now I'll have to wait in hope the pound recovers before I buy the
remaining parts for my 3D printer from Germany but also before the
import duties / Vat go back on. ;-(

You are already paying someone's VAT

I am? See, shows how little I know about it all ...

Well... The EU is not about paying no VAT. It's about not being done
twice for VAT (or being done twice and having to claim back one or the
other).

Ah, ok.

I'm all for treaties to make trading easier. But not treaties that then
tell us how we may and may not apply our own VAT.

Fair enough.

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.

No one has enough intellect to be sure - not even the politicians and
university academics - the fact you clearly thought about it more than
shows your vote was (or would have been) qualified.

Thanks, and that is the problem for me, I *couldn't* vote without more
and compelling facts either way. Every point raised here on any of the
TV debates or ITRW was countered by someone else in a way that was (to
me) equally credible.

The reason you and I should vote is not that we can gauarantee the best
outcome (no one can be sure). It's because WE get to live with the result.

Yeahbut (and thanks for your vote of confidence), I *really* don't
have a clue, even now, what is the best for me, let alone my family,
the UK or Europe (because if Europe prospers the chances are, so will
everything else down the line).

Sure - "OUT" is risky. But I think it's good for Britain to take a risk
and get off its butt and start trying to figure out its place in the
world.

Yes, but when out I don't think we will have the same bargaining
power, probably won't be able to get as good a deal if we wanted in
again (if they would let us) and could (as it looks) start the
slippery slope that could do quite some damage (to the EU that we are
still part of for the next 2+ years). All this when America is about
to elect a new president and Russia and North Korea are playing silly
beggars. Is now a good time to be de-stabilising what we have over
here (even if it's not perfect)?

Staying "IN" for me just meant years more whining about how the
EU were shafting us one way or another.

From whom though? See, in my everyday life I never hear mention of the
EU or any real issues to do with it.

Now they're re not going to be
able to shaft us (and have us say thanks you sir, can I have some more)
- we are going to have to go out by ourselves and live with the result.

True.

And I feel quite optimistic about that.

Again, I'm not particularly bothered either way (ignorance is bliss
etc) and my only real concern is for our 25 year old daughter. She
(and her kind) are probably already going to have to pay quite a price
for the mess we and those before us have made and now this doesn't
look to make her life any easier, especially in the short term.



A further 15% of the population who are entitled to a vote aren't
registered to do so so the 6% bias to Leave was like being a 'World
Champion' ... where in fact you are only such because not everyone who
could be better was there on the day.

No comment on that I notice.

Not intentionally - I just ran out of time.

Ok, np. ;-)

So I'm guessing you are happy your
democratic decision is only chosen by a minority of the voting
population?

Majority.

No, of the voting population. 52% of those who voted voted out, 48% of
those who voted voted in, 28% of the population who could vote didn't
and 16% of the potentially votable population couldn't vote at all
(for whatever reason). So of the population we were taken out of the
EU by a minority and even of those who did vote, by a fairly small
margin (percentage wise).

If you mean the margin was a minority of the electorate, then that's
going to be tricky to avoid (and a bit suspect - like a stereotypical
USSR election with 100% votes for the party man).

I did (above) and yes, I'm not really talking about TRW here but what
you might see if you stepped back a couple of paces.


Again, I'm not blaming you for that or suggesting I have a better
solution (apart from the NOTA option on the ballot paper) and I know
that is how it works but I'd not really count such a close (and
potentially uneducated, unrepresentative) count as a clear indication
of anything.

And it is *very* obvious that a poll of all the people of the *United
Kingdom* in no way reflects the opinions of the individual kingdoms
(and why Scotland and possibly NI want out of us and back in the EU)?

Who assumed they would want the same things we want ffs?


Indeed - and if the Scots want to have another referendum to leave the
UK, that's up to them.

Yup .. but then what happens to the United Kingdom? I mean, it sorta
makes sense as we are an island that as 'an island' we can be a bit
flexible (same applies to Ireland as well to a lesser degree
(geographically)) but to then break off Scotland (and or Wales) ...

Opens up some thorny issues about the border with
England - but not impossible to resolve.

Or worse between Northern and Southern Ireland as at least we haven't
been fighting the Scots or Welsh for a few years now. ;-)

Now, with other EU states now threatening to leave (Netherlands and
France?) and all sort of other people waving their hands trying to get
in or out I believe it's all going to distract them (and indirectly
us) even further from moving forward but firefighting instead.

And think of all the paperwork of all the companies who can no longer
'sell' the fact that we are in the EU (eg, part of a bigger group)
where we all aim to work to common standards and rules (in the main)?

No, whilst I can see what the Leavers are saying and they may well
have some good and valid points, I'm just not sure that this was the
only way to fix stuff. Like wanting to get your broadband contract
cheaper, you generally only have to ask to speak to cancellations and
you often get a better deal, without having to go though all the
rigmarole of changing you ISP, DD, email etc. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

See above.

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Like, I've seen massive building works going ahead behind the scenes
(power supplies and other services laid in, access roads built etc)
long before the current local party / council have supposedly given
planning permission and the process still continues after the party in
power changes? Large groups of local homeowners protest, the work
carries on.

So, voting one way or another seems to make little difference (even
though their manifesto suggested otherwise) so many people just don't
bother (so much these days. Not the turnout as such, the effort they
put into deciding)?

Now, if whichever party got it could mean you seeing your family
slaughtered in front of you, then you just might be more keen to vote
and take more of an interest. [1]

So, with that in mind, handing the control over something so important
to the people (even on average) least likely to fully comprehend the
full consequences sounds pretty dangerous. (And after all, DC didn't
have to have a referendum on this right now did he?)

The only time you might ask the people to binary vote is if it's not a
matter of life or death (and I'm not saying us leaving the EU is that
but it might still be pretty serious (all around)).

Cheers, T i m

[1] I'm not suggesting that as a way of getting more people to vote or
take more of an interest in politics here in the UK btw. ;-)

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:38:31 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Friday, 24 June 2016 10:00:26 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
Pounds down against the dollar, shares are falling and the decision to
leave isn't even made(1).

Well with a falling pound the exports might go up but it will cost us
more for energy (paid for in dollars), electrical goods, food, etc.

If that leads to inflation the BoE will raise interest rates which is
good for me but it won't be good for mortgage payers.

On the other hand if we can't export more and the unemployment rate goes
up there will be a recession and the BoE will have to reduce interest
rates which will push up house prices.

(1) Of course Scotland didn't vote to leave so the SNP MPs will probably
vote for leaving as might a large number of other MPs so we may not
leave anyway.

As they say we may be in for interesting times.

Ah, so I'll pay my solar PV panels off sooner!

No, 'we' will pay your solar panels off sooner. ;-(

Assuming they are still there after the revolution. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And so
on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

It isn't trickle down. Clearly those highly paid people do spend much
of what they earn where they are working, if only on houses/flats but
also on stuff like cars and holidays, with the last two mostly outside
the country they are working in in the case of Britain.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 June 2016 13:49:18 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 13:02, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:08:23 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

snip

Now I'll have to wait in hope the pound recovers before I buy the
remaining parts for my 3D printer from Germany but also before the
import duties / Vat go back on. ;-(

You are already paying someone's VAT

I am? See, shows how little I know about it all ...

Well... The EU is not about paying no VAT. It's about not being done
twice for VAT (or being done twice and having to claim back one or the
other).

I'm all for treaties to make trading easier. But not treaties that then
tell us how we may and may not apply our own VAT.




So, 28% of the population didn't vote at all and of the 72% that did,

The biggest turnout in a full election since 1992 I believe, but quite
a
margin over recent general elections, despite there being a monsoon
over
many parts yesterday - that says something in itself.

True.

some

0.08%

Wow...


spoiled their papers and many would have beet tactical or just a
coin toss, voting because they (thought they) had to vote one way or
the other.

No, I think you have tried to merge the things there. *I* wasn't
splitting spoilt papers from coin ******* or tactical voters.

Sorry.


Few who voted actually know anything about politics in
general or could consider / understand the 'bigger picture' at all.

So you think the general public is unfit to be consulted?

As part of what we currently call 'democracy, no, of course not. Could
a vast majority of the great unwashed fully know and understand the
implications of their 'decision', then no *of course* and anyone who
thought otherwise would be deluded (IMHO).

Ask 100 voters at any polling station some *very basic* political
questions and see for yourself.

It's like asking your workforce if they want higher wages without
telling them (or giving the opportunity to find out) that doing so
will bankrupt the company. You have given a child a loaded gun to play
with.

Off you go -
you'll fit right in with the unaccountable bureaucrats in the EU.

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.

No one has enough intellect to be sure - not even the politicians and
university academics - the fact you clearly thought about it more than
shows your vote was (or would have been) qualified.

The reason you and I should vote is not that we can gauarantee the best
outcome (no one can be sure). It's because WE get to live with the
result.

Sure - "OUT" is risky. But I think it's good for Britain to take a risk
and get off its butt and start trying to figure out its place in the
world. Staying "IN" for me just meant years more whining about how the
EU were shafting us one way or another. Now they're re not going to be
able to shaft us (and have us say thanks you sir, can I have some more)
- we are going to have to go out by ourselves and live with the result.

And I feel quite optimistic about that.



A further 15% of the population who are entitled to a vote aren't
registered to do so so the 6% bias to Leave was like being a 'World
Champion' ... where in fact you are only such because not everyone
who
could be better was there on the day.

No comment on that I notice.

Not intentionally - I just ran out of time.

So I'm guessing you are happy your
democratic decision is only chosen by a minority of the voting
population?

Majority.

If you mean the margin was a minority of the electorate, then that's
going to be tricky to avoid (and a bit suspect - like a stereotypical
USSR election with 100% votes for the party man).


Again, I'm not blaming you for that or suggesting I have a better
solution (apart from the NOTA option on the ballot paper) and I know
that is how it works but I'd not really count such a close (and
potentially uneducated, unrepresentative) count as a clear indication
of anything.

And it is *very* obvious that a poll of all the people of the *United
Kingdom* in no way reflects the opinions of the individual kingdoms
(and why Scotland and possibly NI want out of us and back in the EU)?

Who assumed they would want the same things we want ffs?


Indeed - and if the Scots want to have another referendum to leave the
UK, that's up to them. Opens up some thorny issues about the border with
England - but not impossible to resolve.

They've had their referendum. End of story.

Certainly with Cameron gone, his replacement may not be too keen on another
referendum which might well see Scotland with a majority who want to leave
now.

And it looks unlikely that Cameron will give them another before
he leaves himself given that he didnt want them to leave.

But if we see a raft of referendums in the EU now with some
of them seeing more countries leaving, it might be hard to
keep saying no to Scotland if they keep demanding another.

"harry" wrote in message
...


They've had their referendum. End of story.

The ungrateful *******s can have as many votes as it takes for them to get
"their" right answer, for all I care (and I suspect I am in the majority of
non-Scots!)

tim

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to his
dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite often get
it wrong too.

See above.

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

Another big problem, allegedly, is that a lot of the leave vote
were voting tactically and never actually expected to win.
They thought they'd show two fingers to the establishement
as a gesture, but given that they didn't even pretend to
understand the economic consequences, that was about it.

AIUIA without knowing any specifics, tactical voting
can often have unintended consequences. This has been
established by modelling typical voting behavior,
outcomes etc. In short how people are likely to behave
when they need to take how other people behave into
account and the possible consequences.

Years ago there was always a sense of shock and outrage
if immigration was even made an election issue as in
Smethwick in 1964.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smethw...neral_election

Now while the approach may have been more subtle nowadays whatever
anybody claims to the contrary immigration has been a big factor.
And while many people will decry Farage and all he stands for,
his short lived poster, and the result itself, will have
gone around the world.

While on the other hand trying to push immigration down
people's throats, and explaining what a good idea it all* is
to people who simply won't believe you, as Corbyn and some
others have done, is electoral suicide.

* i.e wouldn't immigrant doctors be doing an even better
job back home, treating people in their own ramshackle health
service ? And why aren't there enough home grown doctors
being trained to service the NHS ?


michael adams

....

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:14:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

I think it was a bit of the 'Grand National' or a big rollover on the
lottery ... people betting (voting) and having pools at work because
it was a 'big event'?

I saw a few houses with flag sized banners for 'Leave' (many modded to
read 'Love' g), like you see during one of those big 'Game of kicks'
tournaments. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:27:32 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

Another big problem, allegedly, is that a lot of the leave vote
were voting tactically and never actually expected to win.
They thought they'd show two fingers to the establishement
as a gesture, but given that they didn't even pretend to
understand the economic consequences, that was about it.

AIUIA without knowing any specifics, tactical voting
can often have unintended consequences. This has been
established by modelling typical voting behavior,
outcomes etc. In short how people are likely to behave
when they need to take how other people behave into
account and the possible consequences.

Years ago there was always a sense of shock and outrage
if immigration was even made an election issue as in
Smethwick in 1964.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smethw...neral_election

Now while the approach may have been more subtle nowadays whatever
anybody claims to the contrary immigration has been a big factor.
And while many people will decry Farage and all he stands for,
his short lived poster, and the result itself, will have
gone around the world.

While on the other hand trying to push immigration down
people's throats, and explaining what a good idea it all* is
to people who simply won't believe you, as Corbyn and some
others have done, is electoral suicide.

* i.e wouldn't immigrant doctors be doing an even better
job back home, treating people in their own ramshackle health
service ? And why aren't there enough home grown doctors
being trained to service the NHS ?

Good points, well said.

Cheers, T i m

On 24/06/2016 19:49, Andrew wrote:
On 24/06/2016 19:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/06/2016 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

Where do you think the cash comes from to pay McDonald's staff and other
services from if it isn't trickle down?

Certainly *not* from overpaid city gamblers. Do MacDonalds put
edible gold leaf on their burgers, or sell champagne at £250
a bottle to attract JP Morgan employees ?.


So where do they get it from then?

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
Now while the approach may have been more subtle nowadays whatever
anybody claims to the contrary immigration has been a big factor.
And while many people will decry Farage and all he stands for,
his short lived poster, and the result itself, will have
gone around the world.

It was also PC *not* to discuss immigration. Or to keep such discussions
to a polite minimum when it was patently obvious it was the single most
important point to many. For whatever reason.

While on the other hand trying to push immigration down
people's throats, and explaining what a good idea it all* is
to people who simply won't believe you, as Corbyn and some
others have done, is electoral suicide.

I really don't know that much about Corbyn. He gets so little media
coverage - or rather the media I see. But my impression is he doesn't tell
outright lies. Hence his bit about being 7/10 or whatever in favour of the
EU, while most of the leave brigade were 10/10 against. And it takes some
fool to believe EU membership had no advantages at all.

* i.e wouldn't immigrant doctors be doing an even better
job back home, treating people in their own ramshackle health
service ? And why aren't there enough home grown doctors
being trained to service the NHS ?

And of course young doctors often gain experience abroad too.
But you're right. Immigration is seen as an easy way of getting the skills
we need without the costs and bother of training. Exactly the same as a
firm poaching a skilled man from another where he might have served his
apprenticeship, while not doing any training themselves.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 25 June 2016 06:31:43 UTC+1, Jack Samuel wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 June 2016 13:49:18 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 13:02, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:08:23 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

snip

Now I'll have to wait in hope the pound recovers before I buy the
remaining parts for my 3D printer from Germany but also before the
import duties / Vat go back on. ;-(

You are already paying someone's VAT

I am? See, shows how little I know about it all ...

Well... The EU is not about paying no VAT. It's about not being done
twice for VAT (or being done twice and having to claim back one or the
other).

I'm all for treaties to make trading easier. But not treaties that then
tell us how we may and may not apply our own VAT.




So, 28% of the population didn't vote at all and of the 72% that did,

The biggest turnout in a full election since 1992 I believe, but quite
a
margin over recent general elections, despite there being a monsoon
over
many parts yesterday - that says something in itself.

True.

some

0.08%

Wow...


spoiled their papers and many would have beet tactical or just a
coin toss, voting because they (thought they) had to vote one way or
the other.

No, I think you have tried to merge the things there. *I* wasn't
splitting spoilt papers from coin ******* or tactical voters.

Sorry.


Few who voted actually know anything about politics in
general or could consider / understand the 'bigger picture' at all..

So you think the general public is unfit to be consulted?

As part of what we currently call 'democracy, no, of course not. Could
a vast majority of the great unwashed fully know and understand the
implications of their 'decision', then no *of course* and anyone who
thought otherwise would be deluded (IMHO).

Ask 100 voters at any polling station some *very basic* political
questions and see for yourself.

It's like asking your workforce if they want higher wages without
telling them (or giving the opportunity to find out) that doing so
will bankrupt the company. You have given a child a loaded gun to play
with.

Off you go -
you'll fit right in with the unaccountable bureaucrats in the EU.

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.

No one has enough intellect to be sure - not even the politicians and
university academics - the fact you clearly thought about it more than
shows your vote was (or would have been) qualified.

The reason you and I should vote is not that we can gauarantee the best
outcome (no one can be sure). It's because WE get to live with the
result.

Sure - "OUT" is risky. But I think it's good for Britain to take a risk
and get off its butt and start trying to figure out its place in the
world. Staying "IN" for me just meant years more whining about how the
EU were shafting us one way or another. Now they're re not going to be
able to shaft us (and have us say thanks you sir, can I have some more)
- we are going to have to go out by ourselves and live with the result..

And I feel quite optimistic about that.



A further 15% of the population who are entitled to a vote aren't
registered to do so so the 6% bias to Leave was like being a 'World
Champion' ... where in fact you are only such because not everyone
who
could be better was there on the day.

No comment on that I notice.

Not intentionally - I just ran out of time.

So I'm guessing you are happy your
democratic decision is only chosen by a minority of the voting
population?

Majority.

If you mean the margin was a minority of the electorate, then that's
going to be tricky to avoid (and a bit suspect - like a stereotypical
USSR election with 100% votes for the party man).


Again, I'm not blaming you for that or suggesting I have a better
solution (apart from the NOTA option on the ballot paper) and I know
that is how it works but I'd not really count such a close (and
potentially uneducated, unrepresentative) count as a clear indication
of anything.

And it is *very* obvious that a poll of all the people of the *United
Kingdom* in no way reflects the opinions of the individual kingdoms
(and why Scotland and possibly NI want out of us and back in the EU)?

Who assumed they would want the same things we want ffs?


Indeed - and if the Scots want to have another referendum to leave the
UK, that's up to them. Opens up some thorny issues about the border with
England - but not impossible to resolve.

They've had their referendum. End of story.

Certainly with Cameron gone, his replacement may not be too keen on another
referendum which might well see Scotland with a majority who want to leave
now.

And it looks unlikely that Cameron will give them another before
he leaves himself given that he didnt want them to leave.

But if we see a raft of referendums in the EU now with some
of them seeing more countries leaving, it might be hard to
keep saying no to Scotland if they keep demanding another.

Won't be long before the EUSSR suffers final financial collapse.
Sooner now they won't have our tit to suck on.

On Saturday, 25 June 2016 12:20:57 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to his
dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite often get
it wrong too.

Economics is a pseudo science.
A crystal ball would be as useful.
They never foresaw the bank collapse.
Useless *******s.
Common sense tells you that the EUSSR has unsustainable debt and it's banks are bankrupt.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...

On 24/06/2016 19:49, Andrew wrote:
On 24/06/2016 19:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/06/2016 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

Where do you think the cash comes from to pay McDonald's staff and other
services from if it isn't trickle down?

Certainly *not* from overpaid city gamblers. Do MacDonalds put
edible gold leaf on their burgers, or sell champagne at £250
a bottle to attract JP Morgan employees ?.


So where do they get it from then?

Do you eat at McDonalds?

On Saturday, 25 June 2016 01:12:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

I'd suggest you look at Aberdeen at the moment. Lots of restaurants etc
closing down due to the low oil prices so oil types losing their jobs. And
the housing market has crashed too. Worked stopped on new builds.

It doesn't take a degree in economics to work out why.

Been falling for two years. Why blame Brexit?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-slowdown.html

On Saturday, 25 June 2016 03:00:27 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:38:31 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Friday, 24 June 2016 10:00:26 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
Pounds down against the dollar, shares are falling and the decision to
leave isn't even made(1).

Well with a falling pound the exports might go up but it will cost us
more for energy (paid for in dollars), electrical goods, food, etc.

If that leads to inflation the BoE will raise interest rates which is
good for me but it won't be good for mortgage payers.

On the other hand if we can't export more and the unemployment rate goes
up there will be a recession and the BoE will have to reduce interest
rates which will push up house prices.

(1) Of course Scotland didn't vote to leave so the SNP MPs will probably
vote for leaving as might a large number of other MPs so we may not
leave anyway.

As they say we may be in for interesting times.

Ah, so I'll pay my solar PV panels off sooner!

No, 'we' will pay your solar panels off sooner. ;-(

Assuming they are still there after the revolution. ;-)


The first lot are in fact paid off.
The second lot will take longer.
So now I can run round in my Rolls Royce.

The revolution will come in the EUSSR.
People there are really ****ed off.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to his
dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite often get
it wrong too.

See above.

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade.

instead of the lies and false promises by the Remain brigade you mean?

Has Osborne announced the date of his punishment budget yet?

tim

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't.
On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

Another big problem, allegedly,

on no evidence at all

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 24/06/2016 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

Where do you think the cash comes from to pay McDonald's staff and other
services from if it isn't trickle down?

from normal people.

trickle down is supposed to come from the mega million pound salaries of
exces on the theory that if we enable them to earn three times mega millions
they will buy three times as much normal "stuff" creating three times as
many extra jobs.

But they don't, they just spend it on a house in a more upmarket area at a
price which has been artificially inflated above its real value because
there are all of these mega million pound execs with more money that they
deserve competing to buy it.

The only bit that has trickeled down to any normal person in this scenario
is the salesman in the estate agent.

tim

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Ah, so I'll pay my solar PV panels off sooner!

No, 'we' will pay your solar panels off sooner. ;-(

Assuming they are still there after the revolution. ;-)


The first lot are in fact paid off.

Cool, I'll be round to collect mine later.

The second lot will take longer.

Shame. ;-(

So now I can run round in my Rolls Royce.

;-)

The revolution will come in the EUSSR.
People there are really ****ed off.

I'm sure they are and can't say I blame them, considering some of the
things we have done. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually
don't. On the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade.

instead of the lies and false promises by the Remain brigade you mean?

Has Osborne announced the date of his punishment budget yet?

He left it to the Bank of England. Remind us now of how many billions they
spent supporting the pound? Makes the EU contribution seem like loose
change.

But did he say that budget would be introduced the day after the result?
There's plenty time...

--
*Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually
don't. On the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade.
Odd that they didn't believe in any promises made at general
elections, so not worth bothering to vote, but did with this one.

Another big problem, allegedly,

on no evidence at all

I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
T i wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:


snip


Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.


Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.


So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to his
dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite often get
it wrong too.


See above.


I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.



Oh, I do love a good loser!

dennis@home wrote:
On 24/06/2016 19:49, Andrew wrote:
On 24/06/2016 19:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/06/2016 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have
announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

Where do you think the cash comes from to pay McDonald's staff and
other
services from if it isn't trickle down?

Certainly *not* from overpaid city gamblers. Do MacDonalds put
edible gold leaf on their burgers, or sell champagne at £250
a bottle to attract JP Morgan employees ?.


So where do they get it from then?


Strangely enough, around here, people work for money and do a
pretty good job. Maybe that's why we have a can do ethic and don't have
significant unemployment.

On 25/06/16 15:12, tim... wrote:

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually
don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade. Odd that they
didn't believe in any promises made at general elections, so not worth
bothering to vote, but did with this one.

Another big problem, allegedly,

on no evidence at all



The only lies Dave wants you to believe are the ones he believes in


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

In article , tim...
wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 24/06/2016 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 17:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
Some investment banks are already moving jobs out. Morgan Stanley
have announced the move of 2000 jobs to Ireland/Frankfurt.

Oh,

so some city wanksters are going to lose their jobs

poor dears

Very good. And the places they spend their inflated salaries in? And
so on?


I've never been persuaded by the trickle-down argument.

Where do you think the cash comes from to pay McDonald's staff and
other services from if it isn't trickle down?

from normal people.

trickle down is supposed to come from the mega million pound salaries of
exces on the theory that if we enable them to earn three times mega
millions they will buy three times as much normal "stuff" creating three
times as many extra jobs.

But they don't, they just spend it on a house in a more upmarket area at
a price which has been artificially inflated above its real value
because there are all of these mega million pound execs with more money
that they deserve competing to buy it.

The only bit that has trickeled down to any normal person in this
scenario is the salesman in the estate agent.


and, usually, some people in the contract gardening business.











--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On 24/06/16 10:25, David Lang wrote:
On 24/06/2016 10:00, dennis@home wrote:
Pounds down against the dollar, shares are falling and the decision to
leave isn't even made(1).

It has been now. The money market is run by back street bookies, the
pound will recover in a week.

It probably will.


Some banker wakes up with a boil on his nads and the FTSE takes a dive.
It means nothing unless it is sustained.

It means nothing unless you also look at trading volumes
--
bert

In article , T i m
writes
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:00:27 +0100, dennis@home
wrote:

Pounds down against the dollar, shares are falling and the decision to
leave isn't even made(1).

Well with a falling pound the exports might go up but it will cost us
more for energy (paid for in dollars), electrical goods, food, etc.

Now I'll have to wait in hope the pound recovers before I buy the
remaining parts for my 3D printer from Germany but also before the
import duties / Vat go back on. ;-(

If that leads to inflation the BoE will raise interest rates which is
good for me but it won't be good for mortgage payers.

On the other hand if we can't export more and the unemployment rate goes
up there will be a recession and the BoE will have to reduce interest
rates which will push up house prices.

(1) Of course Scotland didn't vote to leave so the SNP MPs will probably
vote for leaving as might a large number of other MPs so we may not
leave anyway.

Un-united Kingdom when Scotland and NI leave?

As they say we may be in for interesting times.

So, 28% of the population didn't vote at all and of the 72% that did,
some spoiled their papers and many would have beet tactical or just a
coin toss, voting because they (thought they) had to vote one way or
the other. Few who voted actually know anything about politics in
general or could consider / understand the 'bigger picture' at all.

Just the sort of conversation one would expect to hear in the corridors
of power in Brussels.
Snip
--
bert

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 24/06/16 12:08, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/06/16 10:35, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:00:27 +0100, dennis@home
wrote:

Pounds down against the dollar, shares are falling and the decision to
leave isn't even made(1).

Well with a falling pound the exports might go up but it will cost us
more for energy (paid for in dollars), electrical goods, food, etc.

Now I'll have to wait in hope the pound recovers before I buy the
remaining parts for my 3D printer from Germany but also before the
import duties / Vat go back on. ;-(

You are already paying someone's VAT



So, 28% of the population didn't vote at all and of the 72% that did,

The biggest turnout in a full election since 1992 I believe, but quite a
margin over recent general elections, despite there being a monsoon over
many parts yesterday - that says something in itself.

some

0.08%

Wow...

spoiled their papers and many would have beet tactical or just a
coin toss, voting because they (thought they) had to vote one way or
the other. Few who voted actually know anything about politics in
general or could consider / understand the 'bigger picture' at all.

So you think the general public is unfit to be consulted? Off you go -
you'll fit right in with the unaccountable bureaucrats in the EU.


Dover is that way===

A further 15% of the population who are entitled to a vote aren't
registered to do so so the 6% bias to Leave was like being a 'World
Champion' ... where in fact you are only such because not everyone who
could be better was there on the day.

It was said that the Leave vote was a 'kick in the teeth for the
establishment' which may turn out to be them cutting off their (and
therefore our) noses off and little to do with the EU.

(Apparently) We are now the 6th largest economy in the world (down
one) and no one is giving us an AAA credit rating.


And Germany is now the 7th? Well they should have listened when we
voiced valid concerns.

I really do hope the grass will be greener and ideally before I die.

Cheers, T i m


Oh so you aren't going to get a rubber dinghy and migrate to France as
a refugee then?

Oh: I forgot. They are violently xenophobic aren't they, as well as
massively socialist. That sucks baby.


And given the opportunity would vote 53% out in a referendum
--
bert

In article , tim...
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm suggesting
most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the opportunity of
changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive vote because I have
enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know what would be best for
everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and that's all I've seen people
doing so far, given few have had any facts or can predict the future)
makes me no better than them. That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are a
few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to his
dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite often get
it wrong too.

See above.

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they are
stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to politics
we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make much of a
difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local / national
elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually don't. On
the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade.

instead of the lies and false promises by the Remain brigade you mean?

Has Osborne announced the date of his punishment budget yet?

tim


I don't think he's been seen since Friday morning.
--
bert

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:06:20 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

So, 28% of the population didn't vote at all and of the 72% that did,
some spoiled their papers and many would have beet tactical or just a
coin toss, voting because they (thought they) had to vote one way or
the other. Few who voted actually know anything about politics in
general or could consider / understand the 'bigger picture' at all.

Just the sort of conversation one would expect to hear in the corridors
of power in Brussels.

Yup, I'm sure there are quite a few 'switched on' people there who can
see the bigger picture.

They might send you a copy. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article , bert
wrote:
In article , tim...
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , T i m
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Quite the opposite. I'm not saying I know the answers, I'm
suggesting most 'ordinary people' don't either yet are given the
opportunity of changing it for everyone. I didn't make a positive
vote because I have enough intellect to be 100% sure I don't know
what would be best for everyone. Casting a coin toss vote (and
that's all I've seen people doing so far, given few have had any
facts or can predict the future) makes me no better than them.
That's (our) democracy though.


The so called economists don't know the future either.

Well, I'm happy to agree that not all of them do but I bet there are
a few who will get it pretty close.

So the view of the man in the street is as valid as anyone else's.

Wonder, since harry doesn't believe in experts as such, does he go to
his dustman when ill, rather than a doctor? After all, doctors quite
often get it wrong too.

See above.

I may be doing my fellow 'general public' a great disservice here but
I really don't think the majority have a clue. I'm not saying they
are stupid in general (far from it), just that where it comes to
politics we are too well off (comparatively) for any option to make
much of a difference (and I'm talking the more regular / common local
/ national elections here).

Another problem with the referendum is so many voted who usually
don't. On the basis of lies and false promises by the leave brigade.

instead of the lies and false promises by the Remain brigade you mean?

Has Osborne announced the date of his punishment budget yet?

tim


I don't think he's been seen since Friday morning.

and nor has Boris

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 24/06/2016 13:02, T i m wrote:

Ask 100 voters at any polling station some *very basic* political
questions and see for yourself.

The politicians on both sides had the opportunity for educating the
public but instead they presented a steam of half truths and bollox.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25/06/2016 15:11, tim... wrote:


instead of the lies and false promises by the Remain brigade you mean?

Has Osborne announced the date of his punishment budget yet?



A lot of politicians on the remain side were asked today when 'WW3'
would start or when the horrors of leavings would come about. I didn't
hear one straight answer. It seems now that you don't have to be a EU
member to also be a member of NATO or take part in police and terrorist
information co-operation etc. etc. etc.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On 24/06/16 13:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/06/16 13:24, dennis@home wrote:
On 24/06/2016 12:00, Capitol wrote:

Yes its down *half* of what the pound is against the dollar.

That's just the start.

I hope not cos if the pound drops by twice as much we will need a bail
out from the EU and we won't get one.

Pound already halfway back against the dollar.

Meanwhile BP says 'OK, if that's the way it is, we will stay in the UK,
and adapt to it'


http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/1...don-hq-despite
-brexit-vote

I suspect many more will follow suit. It might even be in, eg Google's
favour to have a major office in the EU and another next door, but
technically outside it. And they already work across multiple
jurisdictions, so one more won't hurt them.


Remember, the UK is VERY well connected, network wise, has a stable, if
sometimes inept system of government, is geographically convenient for
lots of places. So no big reason to be running away.
And has far more flexible labour laws than for example France or
Germany.
--
bert