On Monday, 20 June 2016 12:01:07 UTC+1, jjjuu78 wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , jjjuu78
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...

If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed.

Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

There's easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a
leadership election.

Yes, but not enough to replace Cameron with Boris
or any of the others in favour of leaving, because the
bulk of the Tory MPs dont want Britain to leave.

Dear oh Dear Woddles, you really don't know your arse from a hole in
the ground.

We'll see...

Who'll see jjjuu78 or woddles difficult to tell.



We'll see...

same again.


Even sillier than you usually manage.

Simples.

Wrong, as always.

Exactly.

On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 20/06/16 17:05, Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!
He has a heart?


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:35:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Boris is Boris.

A clever politician with just enough nous to realise there's more to
politics than winning elections.

You know the saying about Stephen Fry? That he's a stupid person's idea
of a clever person?

That's Boris, but even more so.

On 20/06/16 17:17, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:35:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Boris is Boris.

A clever politician with just enough nous to realise there's more to
politics than winning elections.

You know the saying about Stephen Fry? That he's a stupid person's idea
of a clever person?

That's Boris, but even more so.

No, I think Boris is a stupid persons idea of a stupid person.



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!

The reason his heart isn't in it most likely, is because whatever
he says, he realises he'll only be furthering the career of
one Old Etonian over another.

Basically, to me Corbyn has always looked as though he never
really expected to be elected in the first place, never mind
knowing what he actually intended to do once there.


michael adams

....

On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 18:01:44 +0100, michael adams wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!

The reason his heart isn't in it most likely, is because whatever
he says, he realises he'll only be furthering the career of
one Old Etonian over another.

Basically, to me Corbyn has always looked as though he never
really expected to be elected in the first place, never mind
knowing what he actually intended to do once there.


Rabbit in the headlights?
--
Jim S

On 20/06/16 18:07, Jim_S wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 18:01:44 +0100, michael adams wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!

The reason his heart isn't in it most likely, is because whatever
he says, he realises he'll only be furthering the career of
one Old Etonian over another.

Basically, to me Corbyn has always looked as though he never
really expected to be elected in the first place, never mind
knowing what he actually intended to do once there.


Rabbit in the headlights?

Oh, he has a huge following in the ******ati. He stands there and tells
them how he's going to create Utopia out of thin air and moral
aspirations, and right all societies wrongs, and they cheer him on and
leave all virtuous and right minded.

When it comes to Moral Masturbation, Corbyn is yer man!

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum required.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs? Enough to
defeat the government? Ok not on that bill, because Labia would would
with the Tories.

But on something else?

Would Corbyn risk electoral obliteration by forcing (with rebel tories)
a vote of no confidence and so on?

And if an election were forced, how would UKIP fare? With a substantial
portion of the tory party now in their ranks.

Boris Johnson, Next leader of UKIP?

They have raised a wind, and they may yet reap a whirlwind.

This issue will not go away. In 40 years it hasn't gone away.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Oh, he has a huge following in the ******ati. He stands there and tells them how he's
going to create Utopia out of thin air and moral aspirations, and right all societies
wrongs, and they cheer him on and leave all virtuous and right minded.

When it comes to Moral Masturbation, Corbyn is yer man!

But at least he's been paid for it.

And out of the taxes you'd be paying yourself, if your income was sufficient.

And so unlike these essays of yours. Paragraph after paragraph of
largely incomprehensible drivel launched into cyberspace for the benefit
an uncomprehending, unappreciative and largely non-existent audience.


michael adams

....

On 20-Jun-16 6:24 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

Not what some of the electorate hoped for, but this is how our democracy
works. The people vote, based upon their expectations, after which
parliament decides what they actually get.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

Why should any? If they couldn't achieve what they wanted as part of the
party in power, what advantage would they hope to gain by moving to a
minority party?

Enough to
defeat the government? Ok not on that bill, because Labia would would
with the Tories.

But on something else?

Would Corbyn risk electoral obliteration by forcing (with rebel tories)
a vote of no confidence and so on?

And if an election were forced, how would UKIP fare? With a substantial
portion of the tory party now in their ranks.

It would depend upon whether the electorate voted for the party they
traditionally supported or for the incumbent. However, a substantial
number of seats for UKIP would simply make it more likely that Labour
would form the next government. Is that what you are hoping for?

Boris Johnson, Next leader of UKIP?

He would probably go with anybody who offers him the leadership.


They have raised a wind, and they may yet reap a whirlwind.

This issue will not go away. In 40 years it hasn't gone away.

If it goes away for another 40 years, I probably won't be in a position
to care.


--
--

Colin Bignell

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how selfish
and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own personal gravy
trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

I can assure you that if the vote is Brexit, a majority of Tories will
suddenly find that after all they only said that out of solidarity to the
current leadership, and they really wanted out all along, and here are
their CVS and can they have a job in the new Eurosceptic cabinet...

IMO it is much more likely that they will stall and work out how
to remain in the EU even if the vote is Brexit by a small margin.

It is certainly possible that some might decide that Boris will be
replacing Cameron and so change their position to make it more
likely that Boris will pick them for cabinet, but IMO there is no
chance that the vote will be Brexit and certainly not by a margin
that will leave the Tories no option but to leave the EU with Boris
in charge.

*Except the UKIP and other Eurosceptic MEPS, who are essentially asking
you to vote them out of their jobs.

And who will become completely irrelevant in the unlikely event that
the Brexit vote prevails with a large enough margin to see the Tories
with no choice buy to do what the voters have said they should do.

What is actually going to happen is Brexit fails, all the **** and wind
dies down surprisingly quickly once the result is know, just like it did
with the Scottish referendum.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:36:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/06/16 22:12, polygonum wrote:
On 19/06/2016 22:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:56:51 +0100, DJC wrote:

If the margin's big enough he won't have a choice. He'll probably be
out
by conference season in any case.

I have nightmares about who his replacement would be. Osbourne's a coke
head, May's a female Hitler and I don't know what the **** Boris is.

A Turk.

Thought he was hungarian?


http://tinyurl.com/hwoykzj er...a bit mixed, there's even a bit of
Turkish in him. LOL. Bloody immigrants, get everywhere! :-)

He featured in one of the Who Do You Think You Are ? episodes
and one of the european kings is an ancestor, illegitimate spawn.

On 20/06/16 20:24, jjjuu78 wrote:
What is actually going to happen is Brexit fails, all the **** and wind
dies down surprisingly quickly once the result is know, just like it did
with the Scottish referendum.

You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment.


--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 12:35, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/06/16 21:56, DJC wrote:
On 19/06/16 19:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In the event of a Brexit victory

That's a cunning stunt. Half the reason for voting brexit gone at a
stroke.

If the margin's big enough he won't have a choice. He'll probably be
out
by conference season in any case.


Depends if there's enough will in the ToryParty to stab him in the back.


It's the Tory party, to quote Churchill, "the oposition are in
front of me, the enemy are behind me"! I'd give Camoron 10 minutes max
if Leave can win.

Incidentally, I'm puzzled by the opinion polls. These all show 50/50,
but the link here has very dfferent numbers:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/po...erons-11496039


Its important that people think its 50/50 to get a very big turnout. To
have 'remain' ahead would mean lots of soft remainers would stay in bed.

That's why the leave vote has to be whittled down from being ahead,
otherwise people would say 'well its a foregone conclusion'

People have to be made to feel that the last vote counts but that remain
is slightly ahead.


Frankly, I've been around a few decades, and one thing I think I can say
with certainty is that I have never seen such a bitter nasty and dirty
campaign as has been fought by the remainers.

And the EU, and the 'liberal press'


Irrespective of whether Britain is better in or out, the EU is absolutely
no longer an organisation I want to be part of, and the likes of the beeb,
the labour party, Camerons 'inners' and the MSM have gained nothing but
UTTER contempt from me.

Bet that will see them pouring from their windows
like lemmings as soon as they read this post.

Anything that gets us out from under these complete and utter ****S is
worth voting for.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/06/16 21:56, DJC wrote:
On 19/06/16 19:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In the event of a Brexit victory

That's a cunning stunt. Half the reason for voting brexit gone at a
stroke.

If the margin's big enough he won't have a choice. He'll probably be out
by conference season in any case.


Depends if there's enough will in the ToryParty to stab him in the back.


It's the Tory party, to quote Churchill, "the oposition are in
front of me, the enemy are behind me"! I'd give Camoron 10 minutes max if
Leave can win.

Incidentally, I'm puzzled by the opinion polls. These all show 50/50, but
the link here has very dfferent numbers:-

The pollsters will probably have built in a bias for the number of don't
knows who feel that they ought to turn up and vote, almost inevitably voting
"remain" as the less risk option.

Unlike a general election where the don't knows usually don't vote at all,
some of them will this time.

Leave possibly has to be 5 points ahead from the certain to vote category to
win on the day.

Of course, we don't know what raw figures the pollsters will have started
with to get their predicted 50-50

tim

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how selfish
and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own personal
gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

tim

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

None IMO, because UKIP would cease to exist if Britain
leaves the EU, it would have no purpose at all and would
lose all the funding it gets by having so many MEPs.

Enough to defeat the government?

Nope.

Ok not on that bill, because Labia would would with the Tories.

But on something else?

Nope.

Would Corbyn risk electoral obliteration by forcing (with rebel tories) a
vote of no confidence and so on?

He's not that stupid given he wants Britain to remain in the EU.

And if an election were forced,

It wouldnt be.

how would UKIP fare? With a substantial portion of the tory party now in
their ranks.

That wouldnt happen.

Boris Johnson, Next leader of UKIP?

He's not actually stupid enough to not realise that
with Britain out of the EU, there would be no UKIP.

They have raised a wind, and they may yet reap a whirlwind.

Fantasy. The referendum will be to stay, and all the ****
and wind will evaporate in days, just like it did when
the Scotland referendum produced the same result.

With a bit of luck a few like you might just hang themselves,
but that's about all that is likely to happen.

This issue will not go away.

Bet it does.

In 40 years it hasn't gone away.

Neither has the majority preference to be part of the EU.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

Oh, he has a huge following in the ******ati. He stands there and tells
them how he's going to create Utopia out of thin air and moral
aspirations, and right all societies wrongs, and they cheer him on and
leave all virtuous and right minded.

When it comes to Moral Masturbation, Corbyn is yer man!

But at least he's been paid for it.

And out of the taxes you'd be paying yourself, if your income was
sufficient.

And so unlike these essays of yours. Paragraph after paragraph of
largely incomprehensible drivel launched into cyberspace for the benefit
an uncomprehending, unappreciative and largely non-existent audience.

Corse nothing like that ever happens with yours, eh ?

On 20/06/16 23:45, jjjuu78 wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

None IMO, because UKIP would cease to exist if Britain
leaves the EU, it would have no purpose at all and would
lose all the funding it gets by having so many MEPs.

Well yes, but if Cameron et al are in the seat, its at least two years
before that happens, and if they look like dragging their feet...


Enough to defeat the government?

Nope.

There isnt a huge majority right now.

Ok not on that bill, because Labia would would with the Tories.

But on something else?

Nope.

Yep.

Neither has the majority preference to be part of the EU....

....been shown to actually exist. That's why we are having a referendum,
and if its a foregone conclsiuon why the dirt and smears and name
calling from remain?



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

On 21/06/16 00:16, jjjuu78 wrote:


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they
dont want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.
Bless!


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/2016 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
On 20/06/2016 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either.
Which is actually rather honest compared to the black and white
approaches of both sides.


I don't think it *is* honest. I think he really wants OUT but daren't
say so.

Nothing unusual in thinking people secretly agree with you even when
it's
obvious to all others they don't.

Rather the same as starting a speech 'I think I'm speaking for everyone
when I say...



Come on Dave - it's obvious his heart isn't in it!

The reason his heart isn't in it most likely, is because whatever
he says, he realises he'll only be furthering the career of
one Old Etonian over another.

Basically, to me Corbyn has always looked as though he never really
expected to be elected in the first place,

True.

never mind knowing what he actually intended to do once there.

He clearly does have some pretty firm ideas about what he wants to see
happen.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 23:45, jjjuu78 wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

None IMO, because UKIP would cease to exist if Britain
leaves the EU, it would have no purpose at all and would
lose all the funding it gets by having so many MEPs.

Well yes, but if Cameron et al are in the seat, its at least two years
before that happens,

That's not right. Britain is free to leave any time it likes.

and if they look like dragging their feet...

Any extension of the 2 years can only be by
mutual agreement and that isnt going to happen.

Enough to defeat the government?

Nope.

There isnt a huge majority right now.

Yes there is of MPs that dont want Britain to leave the EU.

Ok not on that bill, because Labia would would with the Tories.

But on something else?

Nope.

Yep.

Nope, there isnt anything else they care about.

Neither has the majority preference to be part of the EU....

...been shown to actually exist. That's why we are having a referendum,

Nope, the reason for the referendum was to shut
up those Tory MPs that wanted Britain to leave
the EU when the referendum had the voters say
that they wanted Britain to stay in the EU.

and if its a foregone conclsiuon why the dirt and smears and name calling
from remain?

Because that's how politics works. They all do
it, and you do too with socialists and socialism.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 21/06/16 00:16, jjjuu78 wrote:


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they
dont want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.
Bless!

What a stunning line in rational argument you have there.

I assume cunning stunt is a deliberate misspelling of what you really think
about him?

I've never seen him in a dress.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
In the event of a Brexit victory

That's a cunning stunt. Half the reason for voting brexit gone at a
stroke.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

jjjuu78 wrote:
What is actually going to happen is Brexit fails, all the **** and wind
dies down surprisingly quickly once the result is know, just like it did
with the Scottish referendum.

Mandy Rice Davies! You would say that wouldn't you! Scottish
independence is alive and well or the SNP would not have wiped out the
Liebor party and the rest. The next referendum is coming and I expect
the SNP to win. How they cope will be interesting.

On 21/06/16 09:53, Capitol wrote:
jjjuu78 wrote:
What is actually going to happen is Brexit fails, all the **** and wind
dies down surprisingly quickly once the result is know, just like it did
with the Scottish referendum.

Mandy Rice Davies! You would say that wouldn't you! Scottish
independence is alive and well or the SNP would not have wiped out the
Liebor party and the rest. The next referendum is coming and I expect
the SNP to win. How they cope will be interesting.

Actually, I don't

A lot of people with brains are questioning te economics of a scottish
separation.

Three things in particular have torpedoed Salmond's assurances.

(i) North sea oil and gas have nearly run out.
(ii) Fracking, Iran, and bits of Iraq have brought oil and gas prices down.
(iii) Salmond's fluff and ******** about renewable energy, depends on
him being able to sell Scottish windpower at UK subsidised prices. If
Scotland is a separate country, the rest of the UK would not have to pay
to subsidise it, and it would be exported at a total loss by scotland.
Renewable energy is massively loss making without someone else
subsidising it.

Then if Brexit happened, Scotland would have to apply for EU membership.

Even the total idiots in the EU wouldn't want to take on yet another
country that needs propping up financially, even to spite Britain.

Scotland, isolated without UK or EU membership, would collapse
economically.

And we would have to build a fence to stop scots migrating to Britain.
Nasty.

What Scotland really wants is Devo Max, and under a Libertarian style
UKIP or tory regime, they would get it.

Brexit could be very good for scotland indeed, if they but realised it.

And sacked Salmond and Sturgeon and got some competent politicians in
the SNP.




--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 21/06/16 09:53, Capitol wrote:
jjjuu78 wrote:
What is actually going to happen is Brexit fails, all the **** and wind
dies down surprisingly quickly once the result is know, just like it did
with the Scottish referendum.

Mandy Rice Davies! You would say that wouldn't you! Scottish
independence is alive and well or the SNP would not have wiped out the
Liebor party and the rest. The next referendum is coming and I expect
the SNP to win. How they cope will be interesting.

Actually, I don't

A lot of people with brains are questioning te economics of a scottish
separation.

Three things in particular have torpedoed Salmond's assurances.

(i) North sea oil and gas have nearly run out.
(ii) Fracking, Iran, and bits of Iraq have brought oil and gas prices
down.
(iii) Salmond's fluff and ******** about renewable energy, depends on him
being able to sell Scottish windpower at UK subsidised prices. If Scotland
is a separate country, the rest of the UK would not have to pay to
subsidise it, and it would be exported at a total loss by scotland.
Renewable energy is massively loss making without someone else subsidising
it.

Then if Brexit happened,

It won't, you watch.

Scotland would have to apply for EU membership.

And would be absolutely guaranteed to get it.

Even the total idiots in the EU wouldn't want to take on yet another
country that needs propping up financially, even to spite Britain.

How odd that they have with Albania, Serbia etc.

Scotland, isolated without UK or EU membership,

They wouldnt be without EU membership.

would collapse economically.

Nope, just fade back from what they manage now.

And we would have to build a fence to stop scots migrating to Britain.

How odd that that didnt happen with the Irish.

Nasty.

What Scotland really wants is Devo Max, and under a Libertarian style UKIP
or tory regime, they would get it.

There is no possibility what so ever of them ever voting for that.

Brexit could be very good for scotland indeed, if they but realised it.

And sacked Salmond and Sturgeon and got some competent politicians in the
SNP.

There aren't any in it.

On 21/06/16 11:00, jjjuu78 wrote:

And sacked Salmond and Sturgeon and got some competent politicians in
the SNP.

There aren't any in it.

Well thats the only statement of yours one can possibly agree with


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 19/06/16 22:45, bert wrote:
The majority of MPs are in favour of remaining in.
The majority of MPs are in favour of keeping their jobs

There, fixed that for you.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

who suggested otherwise

The point is, if you want to rise in the ranks of government you have to
lick the boss' arse

if you don't, you remain on the back benched forever (unless you are lucky
enough to have previously licked the arse of someone who ousts the boss in
coup)

tim

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

None IMO, because UKIP would cease to exist if Britain
leaves the EU, it would have no purpose at all and would
lose all the funding it gets by having so many MEPs.



you seem to have missed that the premise is "we vote Leave and HMG ignores
that votes and keeps us in"

In that circumstance the UKIP would still be needed and probably see its
poll rating soar

tim

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 12:54:57 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

who suggested otherwise

The point is, if you want to rise in the ranks of government you have to
lick the boss' arse

You don't have to lick arse, money works too, so does status and power.

The EU couldn't(or didn't want to, or liked the idea of the tax and prestige generated) see the fiddles going on with the world cup.

They won't see it on their own doorstep.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 12:54:57 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they
dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

who suggested otherwise

The point is, if you want to rise in the ranks of government you have to
lick the boss' arse

You don't have to lick arse, money works too, so does status and power.

The EU couldn't(or didn't want to, or liked the idea of the tax and
prestige generated) see the fiddles going on with the world cup.

what's that got to do with back-bench MPs seeking to get cabinet jobs?

(or are you suggesting that the MPs have been bribed to campaign for remain
by being offered world cup tickets?)

tim

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

who suggested otherwise

The point is, if you want to rise in the ranks of government you have to
lick the boss' arse

But with the immense numbers of MPs, close to unique in the entire
world, that is the inevitable result for almost all MPs. The only gravy
train they will ever see is the most basic Westminster one.

if you don't, you remain on the back benched forever

And that is what almost all of them will ever do.

(unless you are lucky enough to have previously licked the arse of someone
who ousts the boss in coup)

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/06/16 18:16, Nightjar wrote:
On 19-Jun-16 10:20 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
....
If it's Leave and he tries to ignore it, he'll be removed. There's
easily enough MPs who wouldn't accept that who will force a leadership
election.

I think ignoring the vote would be the least likely of the options open
to him. What if he simply went ahead and introduced the legislation
needed to repeal the 1972 Act and, as is very possible, it gets voted
down in parliament? He would have done exactly what the referendum
required.


But not what the electorate wanted him to.

And that is where we get into interesting territory.

How many tories would leave and join UKIP, still as MPs?

None IMO, because UKIP would cease to exist if Britain
leaves the EU, it would have no purpose at all and would
lose all the funding it gets by having so many MEPs.



you seem to have missed that the premise is "we vote Leave and HMG ignores
that votes and keeps us in"

In that circumstance the UKIP would still be needed and probably see its
poll rating soar

But if there were enough deserters from the Tories, that would
see Britain leave the EU and UKIP cease to exist overnight.

I can't see even the stupidest Tory not being able to work
that out. There would be no way back to the Tories for them.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:
In the IMO unlikely event of a Brexit victory, with the bulk of Tory
MPs not in favour of leaving the EU,

The bulk of the Tory MPs are not in favour of staying in the EU

Have you asked them all, or simply guessing?

They are only saying that because they think Remain will win and they
want to back the winning side so that they will be rewarded with plum
jobs afterwards.

It's rather obvious Corbyn isn't 100% in favour of the EU either. Which is
actually rather honest compared to the black and white approaches of both
sides.

That's leftie flavoured honesty. Saying you are in favour of staying in
when in actual fact you are in favour of leaving.
--
bert

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
...

"jjjuu78" wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/06/16 23:01, jjjuu78 wrote:
Not when there is an overwhelming majority
of Tory MPs who dont want Britain to leave.

You have no evidence of that.

We will if the leave vote prevails.

There is only an overwhelming majority of Tory MPs who *say* they dont
want Britain to leave.

There is no point in them lying about that.

If this campaign has done anything, it should have showed you how
selfish and unprincipled politicians are when it comes to their own
personal gravy trains*.

Very few of them have any gravy train involved with the EU.

not from the EU

from the "boss" whose arse they licked

Very few MPs have any gravy train from any boss.

The only one they have is the most basic Westminster one.

who suggested otherwise

The point is, if you want to rise in the ranks of government you have to
lick the boss' arse

But with the immense numbers of MPs, close to unique in the entire
world, that is the inevitable result for almost all MPs. The only gravy
train they will ever see is the most basic Westminster one.

Whilst there might be 650 MP only half of them will be Tories and thus
likely to be invited

so that's 325 in the queue for performing the arse licking.

Out out that there are approx 120 government positions on offer so any one
MP has a 35% chance of getting one, and that's before you deduct all of the
has-beens who had their go in an earlier administration and "failed".

That isn't negligible,

tim