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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
Disastrous for UK economy if we leave the EUSSR???????????????
Britain lost its ship building industry while in the EU Britain lost its aircraft industry while in the EU Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Britain lost its articulated truck industry while in the EU Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU Britain lost its steel industry while in the EU And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! |
#2
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
harry wrote
Disastrous for UK economy if we leave the EUSSR??????????????? Britain lost its ship building industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with South Korea getting its act into gear on ship building and leaving you lot for dead. There is still shipbuilding in the EU too. Britain lost its aircraft industry while in the EU More of your lies. Britain had enough of a clue to get involved with Airbus and it leaves what aircraft industry Britain had for dead. And that was possible due to the EU. Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the textile industry moving to much lower labour cost countrys like Bangladesh etc. Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. France does in fact do fine in that area and outside the EU too. Britain lost its articulated truck industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at artics. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the fact that coal mining was never going to be viable in Britain anymore and that was true LONG before the EU showed up. Britain lost its steel industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the fact that the steel industry was never going to be viable in Britain once China got its act into gear on that. And none of that **** will return if Britain leaves the EU. And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! That is true of what remains of the car industry. The rest of the world gave up on British cars LONG ago now. Only the EU is a viable market for what **** is still produced in Britain. |
#3
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ... harry wrote Disastrous for UK economy if we leave the EUSSR??????????????? Britain lost its ship building industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with South Korea getting its act into gear on ship building and leaving you lot for dead. There is still shipbuilding in the EU too. Britain lost its aircraft industry while in the EU More of your lies. Britain had enough of a clue to get involved with Airbus and it leaves what aircraft industry Britain had for dead. And that was possible due to the EU. Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the textile industry moving to much lower labour cost countrys like Bangladesh etc. Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. Actually that one is. We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat France does in fact do fine in that area and outside the EU too. Britain lost its articulated truck industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at artics. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Actually so do we just not with historic UK badges on the front,. Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the fact that coal mining was never going to be viable in Britain anymore and that was true LONG before the EU showed up. Decline was enhanced by the EU rules about "polluting" fuels which we have enacted with gusto. Other EU countries have been far slower to do this tim |
#4
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
"tim..." wrote in message ... "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... harry wrote Disastrous for UK economy if we leave the EUSSR??????????????? Britain lost its ship building industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with South Korea getting its act into gear on ship building and leaving you lot for dead. There is still shipbuilding in the EU too. Britain lost its aircraft industry while in the EU More of your lies. Britain had enough of a clue to get involved with Airbus and it leaves what aircraft industry Britain had for dead. And that was possible due to the EU. Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the textile industry moving to much lower labour cost countrys like Bangladesh etc. Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. Actually that one is. Nope. We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts Bull****. which have almost all been won by other European companies Because what they offered was much better. and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Nope, because they didnt offer anything of any value. Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat Have fun explaining why the frogs particularly have done so well outside their own country. France does in fact do fine in that area and outside the EU too. Britain lost its articulated truck industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at artics. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Actually so do we Nope, dont get within a bulls roar of what the krauts do. just not with historic UK badges on the front,. Not without those either. Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with the fact that coal mining was never going to be viable in Britain anymore and that was true LONG before the EU showed up. Decline was enhanced by the EU rules about "polluting" fuels which we have enacted with gusto. The British coal industry was long gone before any of that. Other EU countries have been far slower to do this Irrelevant to what sank the British coal industry. |
#5
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 10:41:03 +0100, tim... wrote:
Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. Actually that one is. We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat So, basically, it's nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with how the UK government interprets "the rules"? Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Actually so do we just not with historic UK badges on the front,. The motor industry, at least as far as British ownership goes, was already pretty much dead and buried YEARS before the UK even joined the EC. Vauxhall was 100% owned by GM from 1925. Ford of Britain was never anything but majority owned by Ford US and by 1961 was 100% US owned. Ford gradually "rationalised" their European operations through the 1960s, and Ford Europe merged Ford of Britain into Ford Germany in 1967, based in Cologne. Rootes Group was fully owned by Chrysler from 1967, before being sold to PSA Peugeot Citroen in 1978. BL is a long saga of wolves being beaten from doors - from Morris/Austin/ Jaguar/Pressed Steel being pushed by the government to merging, as British Motor Holdings, in 1966 - before merger with Leyland Vehicles to form BLMC in 1968, turning into BL with nationalisation in 1975, then sale to BAe in 1984. The Honda tie-up was touted as being the saviour as far back as the late '70s, with the Honda Ballade being rebadged as the Triumph Acclaim in 1981, Jaguar was sold to Ford in 1984, the commercial vehicles were sold to DAF in 1987, and BAe sold the rest to BMW in 1994. So, when the UK joined the EC in 1975, three of the "big four" were US owned, while the fourth was being nationalised in yet another attempt to stop it going tits. UK car production was below 1m cars by 1980. In 2015, it was nearly 1.6m. In the next year or two, it's forecast to be the highest ever figure. |
#6
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 10:41:03 +0100, tim... wrote: Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. Actually that one is. We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat So, basically, it's nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with how the UK government interprets "the rules"? Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Actually so do we just not with historic UK badges on the front,. The motor industry, at least as far as British ownership goes, was already pretty much dead and buried YEARS before the UK even joined the EC. Vauxhall was 100% owned by GM from 1925. Ford of Britain was never anything but majority owned by Ford US and by 1961 was 100% US owned. Ford gradually "rationalised" their European operations through the 1960s, and Ford Europe merged Ford of Britain into Ford Germany in 1967, based in Cologne. Rootes Group was fully owned by Chrysler from 1967, before being sold to PSA Peugeot Citroen in 1978. BL is a long saga of wolves being beaten from doors - from Morris/Austin/ Jaguar/Pressed Steel being pushed by the government to merging, as British Motor Holdings, in 1966 - before merger with Leyland Vehicles to form BLMC in 1968, turning into BL with nationalisation in 1975, then sale to BAe in 1984. The Honda tie-up was touted as being the saviour as far back as the late '70s, with the Honda Ballade being rebadged as the Triumph Acclaim in 1981, Jaguar was sold to Ford in 1984, the commercial vehicles were sold to DAF in 1987, and BAe sold the rest to BMW in 1994. So, when the UK joined the EC in 1975, three of the "big four" were US owned, while the fourth was being nationalised in yet another attempt to stop it going tits. UK car production was below 1m cars by 1980. In 2015, it was nearly 1.6m. In the next year or two, it's forecast to be the highest ever figure. Yes, due to the UK being leaders in car design and exporting worldwide. Very little goes to the EU. |
#7
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
"Capitol" wrote in message o.uk... Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 10:41:03 +0100, tim... wrote: Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU. Actually that one is. We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat So, basically, it's nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with how the UK government interprets "the rules"? Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Nothing whatever to do with the EU, everything to do with Britain being completely ****ing hopeless at car manufacturing. Plenty of others in the EU do fine in that area. Actually so do we just not with historic UK badges on the front,. The motor industry, at least as far as British ownership goes, was already pretty much dead and buried YEARS before the UK even joined the EC. Vauxhall was 100% owned by GM from 1925. Ford of Britain was never anything but majority owned by Ford US and by 1961 was 100% US owned. Ford gradually "rationalised" their European operations through the 1960s, and Ford Europe merged Ford of Britain into Ford Germany in 1967, based in Cologne. Rootes Group was fully owned by Chrysler from 1967, before being sold to PSA Peugeot Citroen in 1978. BL is a long saga of wolves being beaten from doors - from Morris/Austin/ Jaguar/Pressed Steel being pushed by the government to merging, as British Motor Holdings, in 1966 - before merger with Leyland Vehicles to form BLMC in 1968, turning into BL with nationalisation in 1975, then sale to BAe in 1984. The Honda tie-up was touted as being the saviour as far back as the late '70s, with the Honda Ballade being rebadged as the Triumph Acclaim in 1981, Jaguar was sold to Ford in 1984, the commercial vehicles were sold to DAF in 1987, and BAe sold the rest to BMW in 1994. So, when the UK joined the EC in 1975, three of the "big four" were US owned, while the fourth was being nationalised in yet another attempt to stop it going tits. UK car production was below 1m cars by 1980. In 2015, it was nearly 1.6m. In the next year or two, it's forecast to be the highest ever figure. Yes, due to the UK being leaders in car design Like hell they are. and exporting worldwide. **** all cars made in Britain are exported world wide. Very little goes to the EU. Very little goes anywhere. A few Brits still buy them, but that's about it. |
#8
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
In article ,
tim... wrote: We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat Right. Does the EU moves the goalposts for the UK when it comes to bidding? Or is it the UK is incompetent at interpreting EU legislation? If the latter, how would leaving help that? We'd still need to meet EU regs when exporting to them. -- *Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#9
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , wrote: We are the only major European country that plays by the rules when tendering rail contracts which have almost all been won by other European companies and our national industry has all but collapsed because of it Other EU country game the rules to make sure that their home company wins bids for local work and hence keep the business afloat Right. Does the EU moves the goalposts for the UK when it comes to bidding? Or is it the UK is incompetent at interpreting EU legislation? If the latter, how would leaving help that? We'd still need to meet EU regs when exporting to them. We meet other countries rules without problems, we don't need to apply EU rules to everything if we are out. Can one of you remainers please make a positive case for staying? No, I thought not. |
#11
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote: I'm not so sure about Steel, though I do believe that we need to look at where the holes in the market are on this one and do stuff better or cheaper where we can. Besides, many countries do tend to dump things to weaken the home producers, seems to be a common thing. The Americans seem to have used trade tariffs to redress the balance. The other items you mention who compete from a less well paid country with poorer helth and safety do wrankle a lot with people but as you say has sod all to do with the EU. Odd, isn't it? Saudi has dumped large quantities of oil on the world market depressing the price dramatically. Decimating our North Sea oil industry. But everyone is happy because fuel prices are lower at the pumps. The same happens to steel, and people are up in arms. -- He who laughs last, thinks slowest* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#12
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , Brian wrote: I'm not so sure about Steel, though I do believe that we need to look at where the holes in the market are on this one and do stuff better or cheaper where we can. Besides, many countries do tend to dump things to weaken the home producers, seems to be a common thing. The Americans seem to have used trade tariffs to redress the balance. The other items you mention who compete from a less well paid country with poorer helth and safety do wrankle a lot with people but as you say has sod all to do with the EU. Odd, isn't it? Saudi has dumped large quantities of oil on the world market depressing the price dramatically. Decimating our North Sea oil industry. But everyone is happy because fuel prices are lower at the pumps. The same happens to steel, and people are up in arms. North sea oil is still viable even at these lower prices. You can shut down an oil well on a temporary basis, or reduce output. You can't do that with a blast furnace. |
#13
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
"Capitol" wrote in message o.uk... Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In , Brian wrote: I'm not so sure about Steel, though I do believe that we need to look at where the holes in the market are on this one and do stuff better or cheaper where we can. Besides, many countries do tend to dump things to weaken the home producers, seems to be a common thing. The Americans seem to have used trade tariffs to redress the balance. The other items you mention who compete from a less well paid country with poorer helth and safety do wrankle a lot with people but as you say has sod all to do with the EU. Odd, isn't it? Saudi has dumped large quantities of oil on the world market depressing the price dramatically. Decimating our North Sea oil industry. But everyone is happy because fuel prices are lower at the pumps. The same happens to steel, and people are up in arms. North sea oil is still viable even at these lower prices. You can shut down an oil well on a temporary basis, or reduce output. You can't do that with a blast furnace. Of course you can. |
#14
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
That is true of what remains of the car industry. The rest of the world gave up on British cars LONG ago now. Only the EU is a viable market for what **** is still produced in Britain. Yeah, the **** that is Rolls Royce, Bentley, Maclaren, Atom, Range Rover, Jaguar and Morgan is seldom seen sold in America, the Middle East or Far East. |
#15
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
wrote in message ... That is true of what remains of the car industry. The rest of the world gave up on British cars LONG ago now. Only the EU is a viable market for what **** is still produced in Britain. Yeah, the **** that is Rolls Royce, Bentley, Maclaren, Atom, Range Rover, Jaguar and Morgan is seldom seen sold in America, the Middle East or Far East. Yep, anyone with even half a clue there buys German cars instead. And Rolls Royce is German in all but name now anyway. |
#16
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On 12-Jun-16 7:13 AM, harry wrote:
Disastrous for UK economy if we leave the EUSSR??????????????? Britain lost its ship building industry while in the EU The roots of that go a lot further back. The Upper Clyde Shipbuilders consortium, 1968-1971, was a failed attempt to compete overseas shipyards. One problem for the Clydebank being that the Clyde simply isn't wide enough to launch the largest modern ships. Britain lost its aircraft industry while in the EU According to 2015 government figures, we have a 17% share in the global aerospace market, making our aerospace industry the largest in Europe and second only to the USA worldwide. Aerospace is our eighth most important export. Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. Britain lost its rail rolling stock industry while in the EU That is an industry with very low profit margins - the most successful achieving 3-7%. We just couldn't compete in the field, but that has nothing to do with the EU. Britain lost its articulated truck industry while in the EU Again, we were not competitive. Britain lost most of its car industry while in the EU Vehicles are our fourth most important export, representing 9.2% of all exports. Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU In the 1960s it was already cheaper to ship coal from Australia than to dig out of the ground in the UK. Once the UK government decided that it would stop subsidising coal, its days were numbered. Again, nothing to do with the EU. Britain lost its steel industry while in the EU Blame the Chinese for that. However, the British government hasn't helped by blocking attempts by other EU countries to bring in higher tariffs on Chinese steel. And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! We still have many, just not some of those you have chosen to highlight. We are major manufacturers of machinery, pharmaceuticals, electronic equipment, chemicals and plastics, among others. -- -- Colin Bignell |
#17
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote:
Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". Umm, no. The entire world has changed. Globalisation has happened. What used to be really minor bit-players are now major world powers. That's nothing to do with the EU. Our membership of the EU has, arguably, helped to protect us from faring even worse. Britain lost its coal industry while in the EU In the 1960s it was already cheaper to ship coal from Australia than to dig out of the ground in the UK. Once the UK government decided that it would stop subsidising coal, its days were numbered. Again, nothing to do with the EU. And this is the exact same reality as the "Thatcher killed mining!" argument forgets. Coal mining jobs in the UK over time :- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/ UK_Coal_Mining_Jobs.png |
#18
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On 12/06/2016 09:49, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". The entire brexit campaign is based on speculation and lies, it has been from the start. You cannot believe anything they say as they have nothing to base their assumptions on. Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. |
#19
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:17:30 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". The entire brexit campaign is based on speculation and lies, it has been from the start. Of course. You cannot believe anything they say as they have nothing to base their assumptions on. Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. TBH, giving Harry, TurNiP, Capitol and the like the oxygen of publicity is probably one of the Remain camp's strongest tactics. |
#20
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On 12/06/2016 11:34, Adrian wrote:
TBH, giving Harry, TurNiP, Capitol and the like the oxygen of publicity is probably one of the Remain camp's strongest tactics. I hope so. -- Rod |
#21
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On 12/06/16 11:17, dennis@home wrote:
On 12/06/2016 09:49, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". The entire brexit campaign is based on speculation and lies, it has been from the start. Ah, I do love a proof by assertion first thin in te morning So says the proven liar ;-) You cannot believe anything they say as they have nothing to base their assumptions on. Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
#22
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/06/16 11:17, dennis@home wrote: On 12/06/2016 09:49, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". The entire brexit campaign is based on speculation and lies, it has been from the start. Ah, I do love a proof by assertion first thin in te morning So says the proven liar ;-) You cannot believe anything they say as they have nothing to base their assumptions on. Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. He's a remainer, what else do you expect. None of them can come up with positive reasons for staying. |
#23
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On 12/06/16 11:17, dennis@home wrote:
Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. Its very revealing that you say that Dennis, because it shows exactly whey you are a remainer Emotional reasons. -- "Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) " Alan Sokal |
#24
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/06/16 11:17, dennis@home wrote: Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. Its very revealing that you say that Dennis, because it shows exactly whey you are a remainer Emotional reasons. No, it's stupidity! |
#25
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:24:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/06/16 11:17, dennis@home wrote: Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. Its very revealing that you say that Dennis, because it shows exactly whey you are a remainer Emotional reasons. "They will not believe anything positive about remaining..." AFAIC there *is* nothing positive about remaining. From "Der Spiegel": Falls die Briten gegen den Brexit stimmen, vielleicht sogar mit 55 oder 60 Prozent und nicht nur mit 50,01 Prozent, dann ist dies ein Mandat. Dann sollten die Briten so souverän sein, mit dem aufzuhören, was dem Rest Europas seit Jahren auf die Nerven geht: mit Sonderwünschen, Selbstmitleid und diesem elenden Gefeilsche um allerletzte Details. Translated:- Should the British vote against Brexit, perhaps by 55% or 60% rather than 50.1%, then that would be a mandate. Then the British should stop doing the things that have irritated the rest of Europe for years: special requests, self-pity and wretched haggling over every last detail. In other words: IF you remain in the EU, at some point you *will* have to toe the line. The New European Soviet - Mikhail Gorbachev http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/globa.../soviet-eu.htm WHY WE SHOULD LEAVE THE EU. Master Investor, economist and entrepreneur, Jim Mellon, argues Britain is better off leaving the "sinking ship" that is the European Union. If we stay in the EU, within 3-5 years Britain will be forced to deal with the devastating knock-on effects of a collapsing Euro and continental-wide depression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuOIjK86c4o |
#26
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
dennis@home wrote:
On 12/06/2016 09:49, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". The entire brexit campaign is based on speculation and lies, it has been from the start. You cannot believe anything they say as they have nothing to base their assumptions on. Most of them want out for emotional reasons and will believe anything negative anyone says about the EU because that supports their emotions. They will not believe anything positive about remaining because that goes against their emotions so any argument is a waste of effort. The best you can do is influence the undecided who may actually think about it unlike harry and friends. Where are the positive reasons for staying Denise? The latest neutral opinion poll apparently shows a 19 point lead for Brexit. Looking at the Daily Mirror readers poll this morning, it shows 75% for staying, but the readers letters are 100% for leaving! Rigged poll by Remain anyone? |
#27
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:09:43 +0100, Capitol wrote:
snip The latest neutral opinion poll apparently shows a 19 point lead for Brexit. Looking at the Daily Mirror readers poll this morning, it shows 75% for staying, but the readers letters are 100% for leaving! Rigged poll by Remain anyone? This looks to be taken from a fair few sources: https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/ Cheers, T i m |
#28
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sunday, 12 June 2016 09:49:09 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". That has about nothing to do with the reasons for brexit NT |
#29
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
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#30
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
On Sunday, 12 June 2016 12:27:14 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/06/16 12:22, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 12 June 2016 09:49:09 UTC+1, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". That has about nothing to do with the reasons for brexit Reason for brexit are pure rational cost benefit. I really hope not. Are we so lost as a society that people are in a rush to give away basic liberties in exchange for some gambley chance of a few percent income? To talk of it as a cost issue is truly missing the point. The EU doesn't work, and hugely disadvantages its member states,. The EU cant be changed from inside - we tried. Therefore we leave it. I don't mind 2 way arrangements that permit & ease trading. But I totally object to importing Europe's corrupt approach of banning things people need so people can be extorted. Borax, glyphosate etc etc. And I totally object to government without representation, which the EU is. NT |
#31
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
In article ,
wrote: On Sunday, 12 June 2016 09:49:09 UTC+1, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". That has about nothing to do with the reasons for brexit It's a common enough argument used by BREXIT. 'We don't need Europe - we can re-establish free trade areas with the likes of the old commonwealth.' A great deal of their reasoning seems to involve winding back the clock. 'Too many EU rules and regs' So it's fair to assume they'd want all of those cancelled and go back to what was before. Even if it meant our goods etc couldn't then be exported to the EU. -- *The beatings will continue until morale improves * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#32
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In , wrote: On Sunday, 12 June 2016 09:49:09 UTC+1, Adrian wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:44:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: Britain lost its textile industry while in the EU Which has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with cheap labour costs in third world countries. And this really does sum up the logic of much of the brexit campaign. "We were big and important before we joined the EU, so it must be the EU's fault". That has about nothing to do with the reasons for brexit It's a common enough argument used by BREXIT. 'We don't need Europe - we can re-establish free trade areas with the likes of the old commonwealth.' A great deal of their reasoning seems to involve winding back the clock. 'Too many EU rules and regs' So it's fair to assume they'd want all of those cancelled and go back to what was before. Even if it meant our goods etc couldn't then be exported to the EU. False logic again? |
#33
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
In article ,
Nightjar wrote: And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! We still have many, just not some of those you have chosen to highlight. We are major manufacturers of machinery, pharmaceuticals, electronic equipment, chemicals and plastics, among others. Harry doesn't understand the differenve between efficient UK industries etc which already do well within the EU, and those long since dead. So instead of wallowing in past glory, he needs to ask himself what effect leaving might have on those currently successful industries. And equally, on the financial sector, which is far more important to the UK than manufacturing. -- *Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#34
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On Sunday, 12 June 2016 11:34:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Nightjar wrote: And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! We still have many, just not some of those you have chosen to highlight.. We are major manufacturers of machinery, pharmaceuticals, electronic equipment, chemicals and plastics, among others. Harry doesn't understand the differenve between efficient UK industries etc which already do well within the EU, and those long since dead. So instead of wallowing in past glory, he needs to ask himself what effect leaving might have on those currently successful industries. And equally, on the financial sector, which is far more important to the UK than manufacturing. One reason they have died is the burden of regulation from the EUSSR. And also socialist restrictive practices. |
#35
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OT Industries we have lost since being in the EUSSR.
"harry" wrote in message ... On Sunday, 12 June 2016 11:34:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Nightjar wrote: And these REMAIN pillocks are still saying... Dont leave! You will risk losing our industries! We still have many, just not some of those you have chosen to highlight. We are major manufacturers of machinery, pharmaceuticals, electronic equipment, chemicals and plastics, among others. Harry doesn't understand the differenve between efficient UK industries etc which already do well within the EU, and those long since dead. So instead of wallowing in past glory, he needs to ask himself what effect leaving might have on those currently successful industries. And equally, on the financial sector, which is far more important to the UK than manufacturing. One reason they have died is the burden of regulation from the EUSSR. BULL****. The reason they died is because they were hopeless compared with their competitors or because they just arent viable in any modern first world country once the very low labour cost countrys got their act into gear. And also socialist restrictive practices. Even sillier than you usually manage. The Norwegian oil and gas and power generation industrys have done MUCH better than the British ones BECAUSE they had enough of a clue to have the govt do them and that has delivered MASSIVE wealth to that country because they it that way. Same with the French nuclear industry. |
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