Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...


--
Adrian C

On 31/05/16 13:17, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...


Well since they are firmly wedded to android, what do you think if the
next batch come with Linux Mint pre-installed?

And the lord knows who many dollars of fees they would have paid to
Microsoft, goes to a third party company to support it?




--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:57 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...

Wonder if Samsung will pay the upgrade fee once it is no longer free?



--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:57 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...

The problem appears to be incompatible Broadcom wifi cards - an issue that MS and Broadcom need to sort
out between them - if it is possible to do so. However, the problem may be one that can't be resolved.
Broadcom seem to specialise in wifi chipsets that have compatibility problems. I have encountered numerous
examples of Linux installations that have to be tweaked post-installation because of driver issues with
Broadcom wifi cards. To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was introduced before
2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at least 6 years old at the time Win 10 was introduced, which
turns out to be incompatible. It's unfortunate but not particularly unusual that some old hardware doesn't run on
a later OS. This is not a scandal or a major oversight by MS, just "one of those things". What now needs to
happen (if it hasn't already) is that, until a solution is found, the Win 10 install routine needs to check for this
and refuse to install if an incompatible wireless card is detected. Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to
run Win 10 need to swap out their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

--
Tony
'09 FJR1300, '07 Street Triple OMF#24

On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'



--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 31/05/2016 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.


Remove

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheros-AR5.../dp/B00DUQTBX8

and fit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-7260-.../dp/B00N7474CS

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid
it...

+1

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

I've never seen a laptop where wireless is not provided by a plug-in card of
some description. (Although they may exist.) Changing them is not usually
too difficult - I do it all the time to avoid the few remaining chip-sets
that are hard to get working in Linux.

An alternative would be one of the tiny USB wireless devices; these do work
quite well.

Much better to use something other than W10 of course!

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

On 31/05/16 15:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/05/2016 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid
it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.


Remove

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheros-AR5.../dp/B00DUQTBX8


and fit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-7260-.../dp/B00N7474CS




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/05/2016 15:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Well I have swapped them in Fujitsu, dell, samsung, toshiba and lenovo
laptops so I guess yours are too old to have modern stuff.

On Tue, 31 May 2016 16:05:42 +0100, dennis@home
wrote:

On 31/05/2016 15:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Well I have swapped them in Fujitsu, dell, samsung, toshiba and lenovo
laptops so I guess yours are too old to have modern stuff.

I don't think he has *ever* taken a laptop to bits because every
laptop (of the many) I have has an add-on WiFi card. Even my Fujitsu
Q550 X86 tablets have them!

Here is a little 'Where's Wifi' game for him (on a 27" iMac, being
it's the same as in many laptops):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0for%20TNP.jpg

The reason I've had to change the cards on many laptops was (in
*every* case) to placate Linux.

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC)
TMack wrote:

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was
introduced before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at
least 6 years old at the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out
to be incompatible.

Those sounds like the words of a MSFT apologist. MSFT is pushing the
WinX "upgrade" on everything since Windows 7, which launched September
2009, so they /really/ need to be sure they support common hardware from
then if they're going to maintain any credibility (some would say that
horse has already bolted).

On Tue, 31 May 2016 15:10:27 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where
built in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

I thought laptops have mini-PCI or mini-PCI-Express slots for that sort
of thing.

On 31/05/2016 18:04, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2016 15:10:27 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where
built in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

I thought laptops have mini-PCI or mini-PCI-Express slots for that sort
of thing.

IME Wifi is put on a separate module. (Dell and HP).

On Tue, 31 May 2016 15:10:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid
it...

I didn't suggest otherwise.

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

I have never found an example of a laptop or notebook that didn't have a removable wireless card. It will
involves some disassembly to get to it but they are removable and can be replaced. I have done quite a few
replacements over the years. They are usually found in mini pcie slots. For example, AFAIK the Samsung NP-
R590 referred to in the article has one of these:
http://www.zlectronic.com/crms/bigpi.../37694_3_z.jpg

--
Tony
'09 FJR1300, '07 Street Triple OMF#24

On 31/05/2016 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

Use a USB wifi dongle? Personally networking via USB makes my skin
crawl, but if needs must...

--
Chris

On Tue, 31 May 2016 18:01:26 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC)
TMack wrote:

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was
introduced before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at
least 6 years old at the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out
to be incompatible.

Those sounds like the words of a MSFT apologist. MSFT is pushing the
WinX "upgrade" on everything since Windows 7, which launched September
2009, so they /really/ need to be sure they support common hardware from
then if they're going to maintain any credibility (some would say that
horse has already bolted).

Whilst that horse had the chance to bolt several times over the years
(and the Linux donkey jump into it's place) it hasn't happened yet and
doesn't look likely to. ;-(

GNU / Linux is and has always been in an even worse position re
drivers because of how few manufacturers don't cater for it and how
few men_in_sheds there are reverse engineering the more important ones
(and / or doing so fully and effectively when they do).

Don't get me wrong, I'd be using Linux more if it worked (fully) on
the hardware I happen to have (I'm not going out buying stuff
specifically for Linux) and if it ran more of the things *I* want and
need to use.

However, if you actually buy something that has been tested to be
'Linux compatible' and you are happy with the (limited) range of
software available for it (and don't still have to run Windows, on raw
iron / dual boot / VM to cover the stuff Linux can't) or just use your
PC as a web terminal (and don't own an iPod/Phone and want to use the
iTMS etc) then you could be equally serviced running Linux.

I must have 6 x P4 spec machines here I need to get rid of and it
would be an ideal position for me to be able to stick say Mint 17 on
them and give them away ... if only Mint 17 would run on them and
anyone would want them with Linux. ;-(

And I think it says something that you can't give a free OS away
pre-installed on free hardware! (And I've tried). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 31 May 2016 18:01:26 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC)
TMack wrote:

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was
introduced before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at
least 6 years old at the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out to
be incompatible.

Those sounds like the words of a MSFT apologist. MSFT is pushing the
WinX "upgrade" on everything since Windows 7, which launched September
2009, so they /really/ need to be sure they support common hardware from
then if they're going to maintain any credibility (some would say that
horse has already bolted).

I am no great fan of Windows or MS. However, I like to add a bit of balance to discussions. I am not
particularly outraged to find that Win 10 has problems with some old hardware, particularly when that
hardware is a wifi card with a Broadcom chipset. As I said, I have experienced lots of hassle in the past with
Broadcom chipsets under Linux too.

FWIW. it's arguable how "common" the problem wifi cards are. They aren't all that common. However,
Samsung appear to have used quite a lot of them - probably because they were cheap. Unfortunately they
were/are both cheap and nasty. They didn't work well with 8.1 and they seem to have fundamental problems
with Win 10. Samsung, Broadcom and MS will have to try to sort it out because they all bear some
responsibility. However, I doubt that they will be in a rush to do so because it's old hardware and they are
more interested in contemporary stuff.

I have great sympathy with anyone caught out by the MS push to get Win 10 on everything. However, I
suspect that MS would rather bear the cost of a few ****ed-off punters for the sake of further rolling out their
30GB spyware/keylogger. Possibly those Samsung owners should be grateful that it doesn't run on their PCs.
As for me, I have killed Cortana permanently, switched off all the data logging options and installed Classic
Shell. I am quite happy with the remaining parts of Win 10.

--
Tony
'09 FJR1300, '07 Street Triple OMF#24

On 31/05/2016 15:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 15:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/05/2016 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid
it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Modern laptops (read anything 5 years old or less) almost always have
their WiFi module as a plug in internal unit.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Modern laptops (read anything 5 years old or less) almost always have
their WiFi module as a plug in internal unit.

Five years? Make that fifteen!

On Tue, 31 May 2016 19:31:22 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Modern laptops (read anything 5 years old or less) almost always have
their WiFi module as a plug in internal unit.

Five years? Make that fifteen!

+1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#MINI-CARD

Cheers, T i m

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 31/05/2016 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/16 14:58, TMack wrote:
Meanwhile, Samsung owners desperate to run Win 10 need to swap out
their Broadcom cards for something that is compatible.

1/. Who is that desperate? Most people I know are struggling to avoid
it...

2/. How do you change the wifi card on an integrated laptop where built
in wifi is standard? And there are no 'card slots'

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.

BULL****.

Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

BULL****.

I have swapped a few of them in the past to get faster WiFi.

Remove

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheros-AR5.../dp/B00DUQTBX8

and fit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-7260-.../dp/B00N7474CS

On 31/05/2016 19:31, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Modern laptops (read anything 5 years old or less) almost always have
their WiFi module as a plug in internal unit.

Five years? Make that fifteen!

I was deliberately being a little conservative, however 15 may be
pushing it a bit. Many of the separate card solutions then were
proprietary and not interchangeable. Quite a few of the early 2000's
machines did not yet have WiFi as standard IIRC.

(or even ethernet for that matter; I remember buying a new Dell
Lattitude about that time, and had to buy a modem and ethernet on a 3Com
PCMCIA card!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 14:58:59 UTC+1, TMack wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:57 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was introduced
before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at least 6 years old at
the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out to be incompatible.
It's unfortunate but not particularly unusual that some old hardware doesn't
run on a later OS. This is not a scandal or a major oversight by MS, just "one of those things".

So, obviously it won't run on Linux either. And yet?

If all those amateurs can do it... Not just one or two extremely good ones...

On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:18:21 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 14:58:59 UTC+1, TMack wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:57 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was introduced
before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at least 6 years old at
the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out to be incompatible.
It's unfortunate but not particularly unusual that some old hardware doesn't
run on a later OS. This is not a scandal or a major oversight by MS, just "one of those things".

So, obviously it won't run on Linux either. And yet?

If all those amateurs can do it... Not just one or two extremely good ones...

I do rememeber having problems with getting Linux working on some nefarious system once but then I got hold of Ultimate Edition and never had that experience again.

Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of thinking.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 2:47:03 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/05/2016 19:31, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

dennis@home wrote:

Very few laptops have the WiFi on the mainboard.
Most use a mini PCI card or similar.

No laptop I have ever dissassembled has this.

Modern laptops (read anything 5 years old or less) almost always have
their WiFi module as a plug in internal unit.

Five years? Make that fifteen!

I was deliberately being a little conservative, however 15 may be
pushing it a bit. Many of the separate card solutions then were
proprietary and not interchangeable. Quite a few of the early 2000's
machines did not yet have WiFi as standard IIRC.

(or even ethernet for that matter; I remember buying a new Dell
Lattitude about that time, and had to buy a modem and ethernet on a 3Com
PCMCIA card!)


Wow, ancient history! I remember colleagues and I using laptops the size, weight and shape of a couple of paving slabs with PCMCIA modems to dial in to customers' servers and running pcAnywhere. Ah, happy times, said nobody, ever.

On 01/06/16 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:18:21 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 14:58:59 UTC+1, TMack wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:57 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

Advice for Samsung laptop or PC owners... "Don't upgrade to Windows 10"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05..._samsung_fail/

Whoops ...

To be fair to MS, the Broadcom hardware that is incompatible was introduced
before 2010. So...we have a wireless chipset that was at least 6 years old at
the time Win 10 was introduced, which turns out to be incompatible.
It's unfortunate but not particularly unusual that some old hardware doesn't
run on a later OS. This is not a scandal or a major oversight by MS, just "one of those things".

So, obviously it won't run on Linux either. And yet?

If all those amateurs can do it... Not just one or two extremely good ones...

I do rememeber having problems with getting Linux working on some nefarious system once but then I got hold of Ultimate Edition and never had that experience again.

Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of thinking.

That's cos linux drives a cart and horse through most DRM.

Sadly not e-books though. I have almost given up the thought of buying
ebooks, because reading them is so difficult and anyway, you don't 'own'
them. You just rent them it seems.


Meanwhile, on a happier note,. its now established that Windows is more
malicious than a virus....

Ransomware.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06...re_no_way_out/

I wonder how long before the rush to Linux gets under way...

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:14:30 -0700 (PDT), Weatherlawyer
wrote:

snip

I do rememeber having problems with getting Linux working on some nefarious system once but then I got hold of Ultimate Edition and never had that experience again.

Googles

If it's this http://ultimateedition.info/ the guy seems to have been
smoking some pretty strong stuff! ;-)

I'm not sure I really get what UE is (other than yet another Linux
respin)?


Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth is tha silliness about.

Reset or set. I bought a new DVDRW for a laptop I was sorting for a
mate and the *drive* needed setting for the right DVD region (like
many DVDs and players are, not just those running Windows).

No version of Linux bothers with that sort of thinking.

I don't think I've ever tried to play a DVD on a Linux box and
especially not a BluRay. Can you play Blurays on Linux OOI?

Does UE support the iTunes Music Store and playing Windows games,
Photoshop and my vehicle diagnostics software do you know please?

I have Linux (dual boot) on nearly all my hardware so have a pretty
good idea of what works (especially OOTB), what sort_of_works (network
printers that will print but not scan) and what simply doesn't work,
or can't be made work unless you are willing to take up programming as
a new hobby or interest.

So, what worries me, is just how bad does Windows have to get
(according to some) before Linux becomes a real / viable option for
the masses? I mean, it's free (of cost, few care about any other
type), works (to some degree and that's getting better) on most std
hardware and has support for most of the basic software (WEB browsers,
Email, Office apps etc). The *problem* is it doesn't (and never likely
to) have support for things millions (billions?) of people need like
iTunes (to access the iTMS) and real MS Office (for people working
together and need change control) and some of the more specialist
hardware and software.

Being 'free' (of cost) doesn't seem to be a real draw for anyone I've
offered Linux to (supplied and installed for free) and many that I
have given Linux to with it all running and working as well as it can
(eg, No iTunes support) carry on using Windows because (they tell me)
'they prefer it' and often for some little thing that is important to
them they can't do or get going.

So it seems it's a bit like lawnmower racing. Very few know about it
and most of those who do aren't interested in it (watching or trying)
but those who are into it are or become fanatical advocates, on one
hand, trying to introduce the sport to others but on the other, not
willing to really offer to help others get started or want to share
their minority interest hobby with anyone else.

If I had the time or interest to get one going, I'd probably enjoy it,
if only for one race. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 08:40:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip


I wonder how long before the rush to Linux gets under way...

Yeah, me too. After all, it's been around a while now, it's free (of
cost) and getting easier to install on most (reasonably modern)
hardware and many of the mainstream distros (like Ubuntu and Mint),
comes with a pretty comprehensive suite of apps that should cover the
needs of most, and doesn't need as much AV software etc.

Now, there have been several instances where Linux could have
increased it's userbase, Windows ME, Vista, W8,8.1 and even W10 but
over and over, nothing seems to change. ;-(

The only way I can see it getting a foothold amongst ordinary computer
users (most of whom have no interest in computers or programming) this
late in the (desktop / laptop) game is or it to be available in a
generic form 'The Linux' [1] that is officially supported by most of
the hardware manufacturers and software developers and available at a
*much* reduced cost on pre installed machines.

Only then (or maybe not even then) some people might be bothered to
take a look, but as soon as someone finds they can't run iTunes or
their GPS / mobile phone software, or even MS Office for that matter
and especially their favourite PC game, they will be asking the likes
of me to install Windows 10 on it instead. ;-(

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

March 2003, Linux 2.2%
March 2016, Linux 5.5% (and seems to have been stuck around 5% since
2010).

Cheers, T i m

[1] And it won't of course because all the 'geeks' will have a fit
because it goes against the whole open / free / forked_beyond_belief
concept that has been holding Linux back for so long.

John Rumm wrote:
I was deliberately being a little conservative, however 15 may be
pushing it a bit. Many of the separate card solutions then were
proprietary and not interchangeable. Quite a few of the early 2000's
machines did not yet have WiFi as standard IIRC.

'Centrino' was the first major push for wifi in laptops - that was 2003.
I've definitely swapped out the wireless card on a 2004 Centrino laptop.

Theo

On 02/06/2016 11:22, Theo wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
I was deliberately being a little conservative, however 15 may be
pushing it a bit. Many of the separate card solutions then were
proprietary and not interchangeable. Quite a few of the early 2000's
machines did not yet have WiFi as standard IIRC.

'Centrino' was the first major push for wifi in laptops - that was 2003.
I've definitely swapped out the wireless card on a 2004 Centrino laptop.

Yup that was a complete chipset solution so more standardised than
previously. (even if Intel did get into trouble with the advertising
regulators for neglecting to mention the whole "work anywhere" bit was
only true when near a WiFi network!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Five years? Make that fifteen!

I was deliberately being a little conservative, however 15 may be
pushing it a bit.

Looking back to when I bought the machine I was thinking of, yes it was
only 13 years ago.

Quite a few of the early 2000's machines did not yet have WiFi as
standard IIRC. (or even ethernet for that matter; I remember buying a
new Dell Lattitude about that time, and had to buy a modem and
ethernet on a 3Com PCMCIA card!)

My Latitude D800 had gigabit wired but only 11Mbps WiFi, I had to grey
import a bluetooth module for it, eventually it was upgraded to 54Mbps WiFi.

On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

Andy

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:39:09 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.


You still often have to jump though hoops to do 'everyday' stuff in
Linux though (and accept the restrictions).

http://www.howtogeek.com/240636/ever...edia-on-linux/

"None of these options are perfectly convenient, but it’s what we have
for now–and at least it (mostly) works."

Cheers, T i m

On 02/06/2016 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I
need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth
is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of
thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

The protection is built into the DVD drives themselves these days (RPC2
rather than RPC1). That means you can only set the region a limited
number of times before the drive permanently locks to the region.
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions
IMHO). There are also sites that carry modified firmware for lots of the
drives to make them RPC1.

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/06/16 00:04, John Rumm wrote:
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions IMHO)

I want aware that any drives had De-DRM hardware. It thoughyt it was all
done in software.

There is an issue with linux in that some distros say 'oh dear, we cant
supply the decrypt libs because its illegal, so you will have to find
them somewhere else' --- link to somewhere else

Anyway as far as I am concerned its all been a massive own goal.
The way I work is to buy the digital whatever, rip it by whatever means
are possible, and put it on my server where all my devices can get at it.

If they stop me doing that, I simply don't buy it at all.

DRM has made reading e-books less reliable than buying the paper. Pure
Ludditeism.



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 03/06/2016 00:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2016 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I
need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth
is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of
thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

The protection is built into the DVD drives themselves these days (RPC2
rather than RPC1). That means you can only set the region a limited
number of times before the drive permanently locks to the region.
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions
IMHO). There are also sites that carry modified firmware for lots of the
drives to make them RPC1.

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)



That's because they have to pay royalties to include it, unlike Linux
where they just point the user to somewhere they can steal it.

On 03/06/16 12:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/06/2016 00:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2016 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I
need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth
is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of
thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

The protection is built into the DVD drives themselves these days (RPC2
rather than RPC1). That means you can only set the region a limited
number of times before the drive permanently locks to the region.
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions
IMHO). There are also sites that carry modified firmware for lots of the
drives to make them RPC1.

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)



That's because they have to pay royalties to include it, unlike Linux
where they just point the user to somewhere they can steal it.

No, you don't steal the DE DRM program, anymore than you steal a key to
unlock your briefcase full of books.

The theft is arguably by the media companies who demand payment to let
you view their content, when you have already bought the right to do
just that.

The legal situation of ripping a DVD is very much not clear. The legal
situation of providing the tools to do it is much clearer. Its almost
certainly not against the law of the country you download it from or
here either.

It might be against Californian law, but what isn't?

I just realised I spent 5 minutes giving a sensible answer to dennis.
Before realising that as per usual, he's got the wrong end of the stick
completely and is al twitter and bisted about his fanboi OS, Winders,
being crap, as usual.



--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 03/06/2016 13:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/06/16 12:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/06/2016 00:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2016 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I
need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth
is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of
thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with
the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

The protection is built into the DVD drives themselves these days (RPC2
rather than RPC1). That means you can only set the region a limited
number of times before the drive permanently locks to the region.
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions
IMHO). There are also sites that carry modified firmware for lots of the
drives to make them RPC1.

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)



That's because they have to pay royalties to include it, unlike Linux
where they just point the user to somewhere they can steal it.

No, you don't steal the DE DRM program, anymore than you steal a key to
unlock your briefcase full of books.

If its not your key and you don't have permission to use it then you
have stolen it.
If you lose your car key you don't go out and steal someone else's, you
go and buy a new one. Well us honest folk do.


The theft is arguably by the media companies who demand payment to let
you view their content, when you have already bought the right to do
just that.

They own the copyright, its theirs to do as they want or do you think
everything is GPL? Do you steal other peoples software and other ideas too?


The legal situation of ripping a DVD is very much not clear. The legal
situation of providing the tools to do it is much clearer. Its almost
certainly not against the law of the country you download it from or
here either.

It might be against Californian law, but what isn't?

I just realised I spent 5 minutes giving a sensible answer to dennis.

It may be sensible to you but its also wrong.

Linux doesn't ship with a licensed DVD player as it wouldn't be free if
it did ship with a licensed DVD player. Then who would download it?

Its illegal in the UK to bypass DRM such as that on DVDs.

The linux distributors rely on the user downloading software and
committing the crime.

Not that anyone cares much as long as they don't rip it and upload it to
t'internet or car boot sales.

Before realising that as per usual, he's got the wrong end of the stick
completely and is al twitter and bisted about his fanboi OS, Winders,
being crap, as usual.

Looking at that bit of the post I think its easy to see who is bitter
and twisted and its not me.

On 03/06/16 15:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/06/2016 13:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/06/16 12:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/06/2016 00:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/06/2016 21:39, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/06/2016 22:14, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Here is a daft one concerning regional discs . Windows 7 tells me I
need to reset my computer to allow it to play region 2. What on earth
is tha silliness about. No version of Linux bothers with that sort of
thinking.

the story I heard was:

Hollywood spoke to MS, and asked them nicely if they'd help out with
the
regional protection scam. MS agreed.

The Linux guys response was short and Anglo-Saxon.

The protection is built into the DVD drives themselves these days (RPC2
rather than RPC1). That means you can only set the region a limited
number of times before the drive permanently locks to the region.
Obviously you can opt to let the drive fail to decrypt and do it in
software later these days (AnyDVD being one of the nicest solutions
IMHO). There are also sites that carry modified firmware for lots of
the
drives to make them RPC1.

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)



That's because they have to pay royalties to include it, unlike Linux
where they just point the user to somewhere they can steal it.

No, you don't steal the DE DRM program, anymore than you steal a key to
unlock your briefcase full of books.

If its not your key and you don't have permission to use it then you
have stolen it.


But oince I have downloaded it it ios my key and I do have permission to
use it

If you lose your car key you don't go out and steal someone else's, you
go and buy a new one. Well us honest folk do.


If I lose my car keys I Have the bloody locks changed.


The theft is arguably by the media companies who demand payment to let
you view their content, when you have already bought the right to do
just that.

They own the copyright, its theirs to do as they want or do you think
everything is GPL? Do you steal other peoples software and other ideas too?

They may own the copyright but that doesn't mean they own the copy.




The legal situation of ripping a DVD is very much not clear. The legal
situation of providing the tools to do it is much clearer. Its almost
certainly not against the law of the country you download it from or
here either.

It might be against Californian law, but what isn't?

I just realised I spent 5 minutes giving a sensible answer to dennis.

It may be sensible to you but its also wrong.

Linux doesn't ship with a licensed DVD player as it wouldn't be free if
it did ship with a licensed DVD player. Then who would download it?

Its illegal in the UK to bypass DRM such as that on DVDs.

No it isn't.

In the EU, if it isn't for commercial purposes, its not a crime.



The linux distributors rely on the user downloading software and
committing the crime.


There is no crime. Its legal to rip DVDs as long as you don't sell the
ripped copy in.

EU equivalent of law of Tort applies. No gain, no pain.


Not that anyone cares much as long as they don't rip it and upload it to
t'internet or car boot sales.

Before realising that as per usual, he's got the wrong end of the stick
completely and is al twitter and bisted about his fanboi OS, Winders,
being crap, as usual.

Looking at that bit of the post I think its easy to see who is bitter
and twisted and its me.



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 03/06/16 12:34, dennis@home wrote:

(MS have given up on DVD these days it seems - you don't even get a DVD
player program included with recent versions of windows)



That's because they have to pay royalties to include it, unlike Linux
where they just point the user to somewhere they can steal it.

Use of libdvdcss is free and not illegal here/EU. In the US the
situation is different as they observe software patents. In the event no
keys were stolen to create that software library which is widely used on
Linux and Windows. The ancient DeCSS is another matter.

--
Adrian C