Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with whatever joist specs building regs require.

Many thanks,

JD

On 11/05/2016 16:40, wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.

Many thanks,

JD

I don't think there is a defined minimum, except at the head of a
staircase entering the loft.

From a personal point of view, it'd depend on what I wanted the room
for. Years ago my parents converted their loft into a computer room.
There was nowhere I (average height) could stand except in the dead
centre, but so what, it was fine for sitting at desk and freed up room
in the rest of the house. Equally, a low ceiling would be fine for a
space for children to keep and play with toys or for a hobby room. For a
bedroom, I'd be more worried about height, especially once you put a bed
in and find that there is no space around the bed where you can stand.

In article ,
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At one
side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the other
side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall human...
But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What percentage
of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell the place, I'd
like to be able to call the planned attic room an (official) 'bedroom'.
(And yes, the floor will be reinforced with whatever joist specs
building regs require.

I don't remember there being a legal requirement for a percentage of the
ceiling height being at or above the legal minimum.

You're more likely to have problems with the stairs and fireproofing
access than anything else.

--
*America is so advanced that even the chairs are electric.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/05/2016 16:40, wrote:

Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to

There is no required height for a room, only over a staircase (and that
is slightly relaxed for loft access)

make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell

It really comes down to common sense. If the room is useful and
workable, then its ok. One could say that 6'6" is a realistic minimum
for at least some of the room. Dwarf walls etc can go down to (much)
less - but the room will seem more "inhabitable" if you keep them no
lower than 4.5 to 5'

the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.

The floor, fire resistance, insulation and access will all need to meet
building regs for it to class as a proper bedroom.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/05/2016 22:31, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 08:40:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with whatever joist specs building regs require.

Many thanks,

JD


You ought to check the building regs before you start doing anything
serious, as I think you'll find that there's quite a lot more required
than simply height if you want to make it into a habitable room. Read
some of these links http://tinyurl.com/jhdh55n

+1

In case its any use, here is one I did "earlier" (like 12 years ago -
and the rules have changed a bit since then):

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 9:10:50 PM UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/05/2016 16:40, wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.

Many thanks,

JD

I don't think there is a defined minimum, except at the head of a
staircase entering the loft.

From a personal point of view, it'd depend on what I wanted the room
for. Years ago my parents converted their loft into a computer room.
There was nowhere I (average height) could stand except in the dead
centre, but so what, it was fine for sitting at desk and freed up room
in the rest of the house. Equally, a low ceiling would be fine for a
space for children to keep and play with toys or for a hobby room. For a
bedroom, I'd be more worried about height, especially once you put a bed
in and find that there is no space around the bed where you can stand.

Very helpful - thank you.
JD

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 1:04:02 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/05/2016 22:31, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 08:40:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with whatever joist specs building regs require.

Many thanks,

JD


You ought to check the building regs before you start doing anything
serious, as I think you'll find that there's quite a lot more required
than simply height if you want to make it into a habitable room. Read
some of these links http://tinyurl.com/jhdh55n

+1

In case its any use, here is one I did "earlier" (like 12 years ago -
and the rules have changed a bit since then):

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/


--
Cheers,

John.

Very helpful - thanks. You and the other responees have given me what I needed to know: ie., just enough to be able to decide on the rough roof dimensions, pitch etc.
JD

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:45:43 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At one
side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the other
side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall human...
But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What percentage
of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell the place, I'd
like to be able to call the planned attic room an (official) 'bedroom'.
(And yes, the floor will be reinforced with whatever joist specs
building regs require.

I don't remember there being a legal requirement for a percentage of the
ceiling height being at or above the legal minimum.

You're more likely to have problems with the stairs and fireproofing
access than anything else.

That's useful to know - thanks. I guess that will be down to choice of materials and won't affect dimensional constraints - so I've got what I need to know (just enough to do basic planning of the roof dimensions and pitch..

JD

wrote:

You're more likely to have problems with the stairs and fireproofing
access than anything else.

That's useful to know - thanks. I guess that will be down to choice of materials and won't affect dimensional constraints

But you might have to alter existing ground floor ceiling and first
floor ceiling to achieve fire ratings, plus fire rated doors with
closers leading to hallways and stairs etc.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to

There is no required height for a room, only over a staircase (and that
is slightly relaxed for loft access)

Interesting. I had an existing attic room with proper staircase to it
enlarged. All under the control of an architect whose work is exceptional.

Bacisally, a full height window across the back wall to replace the
original tiny dormer and a flat roof to it - so giving a lot more floor
area, as well as plenty light. The front tapers down under the roof to
about 4ft high - just about OK for chests of drawers and using them if
you're careful not to bang your head.

Snag was by the time they'd installed the larger floor joists needed for
such a long span, they also had to raise the ceiling height. Making the
job vastly more expensive. (my guess was a structural engineer on his
first job. ;-))

I was told there was a legal minimum for any 'new' work.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:45:43 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements.
What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I
sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room
an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.

I don't remember there being a legal requirement for a percentage of
the ceiling height being at or above the legal minimum.

You're more likely to have problems with the stairs and fireproofing
access than anything else.

That's useful to know - thanks. I guess that will be down to choice of
materials and won't affect dimensional constraints - so I've got what I
need to know (just enough to do basic planning of the roof dimensions
and pitch..

If you want a reference and some interesting information see:

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/loft-...-design-guide/

The section on "Meeting the Regs: Ceiling Height" is nearly half way down
the page.

Hope this helps

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

On 12/05/2016 13:30, Alan Dawes wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:45:43 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements.
What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I
sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room
an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.

I don't remember there being a legal requirement for a percentage of
the ceiling height being at or above the legal minimum.

You're more likely to have problems with the stairs and fireproofing
access than anything else.

That's useful to know - thanks. I guess that will be down to choice of
materials and won't affect dimensional constraints - so I've got what I
need to know (just enough to do basic planning of the roof dimensions
and pitch..

If you want a reference and some interesting information see:

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/loft-...-design-guide/

The section on "Meeting the Regs: Ceiling Height" is nearly half way down
the page.

Hope this helps

That confirms what I thought. There is no minimum height, except over
the stairs.

wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.


As others have said, the height is more or less up to you, from a safety
point of view, fireproofing is your biggest headache.

All your downstairs and upstairs doors (into habitable rooms - not kitchen
or bathroom) will have to be changed to 1 hour firedoors, not so much of a
biggy, except the frames aren't suitable, which means you'll have to have
all the doors and frames in the house removed and new ones fitted, with
closers and intumescent strips.
All the ceilings in the house may have to have another layer of plasterboard
and be plastered, this is quite probably going to upset the decor in the
whole house, so make sure you factor these jobs into any costings etc before
you start.

On 12/05/16 21:54, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.


As others have said, the height is more or less up to you, from a safety
point of view, fireproofing is your biggest headache.

All your downstairs and upstairs doors (into habitable rooms - not kitchen
or bathroom) will have to be changed to 1 hour firedoors, not so much of a
biggy, except the frames aren't suitable, which means you'll have to have
all the doors and frames in the house removed and new ones fitted, with
closers and intumescent strips.
All the ceilings in the house may have to have another layer of plasterboard
and be plastered, this is quite probably going to upset the decor in the
whole house, so make sure you factor these jobs into any costings etc before
you start.



Are you sure? Or is it a recent change? I know of a 3rd storey attic
conversion that was done by the book a few years ago and non of this was
required.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/05/16 21:54, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements.
What percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I
sell the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room
an (official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.


As others have said, the height is more or less up to you, from a
safety point of view, fireproofing is your biggest headache.

All your downstairs and upstairs doors (into habitable rooms - not
kitchen or bathroom) will have to be changed to 1 hour firedoors,
not so much of a biggy, except the frames aren't suitable, which
means you'll have to have all the doors and frames in the house
removed and new ones fitted, with closers and intumescent strips.
All the ceilings in the house may have to have another layer of
plasterboard and be plastered, this is quite probably going to upset
the decor in the whole house, so make sure you factor these jobs
into any costings etc before you start.



Are you sure? Or is it a recent change? I know of a 3rd storey attic
conversion that was done by the book a few years ago and non of this
was required.

Without knowing the exact layout of his house, it's impossible to say, I've
only worked on newbuild where there's a loft room, but there are plenty of
rules for existing houses too:
https://www.labc.co.uk/sites/default...onversions.pdf
He will need firedoors on the landing and quite possibly downtairs too if
the staircase isn't enclosed.

Closers aren't required though

On 12/05/2016 21:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/05/16 21:54, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.


As others have said, the height is more or less up to you, from a safety
point of view, fireproofing is your biggest headache.

All your downstairs and upstairs doors (into habitable rooms - not
kitchen
or bathroom) will have to be changed to 1 hour firedoors, not so much
of a
biggy, except the frames aren't suitable, which means you'll have to have
all the doors and frames in the house removed and new ones fitted, with
closers and intumescent strips.
All the ceilings in the house may have to have another layer of
plasterboard
and be plastered, this is quite probably going to upset the decor in the
whole house, so make sure you factor these jobs into any costings etc
before
you start.



Are you sure? Or is it a recent change? I know of a 3rd storey attic
conversion that was done by the book a few years ago and non of this was
required.

ISTR recall the rules changed a bit after I did mine... I needed to do
fire doors on the new storey for all habitable rooms, and then only
add self closers for any doors on other storeys that opened onto the
escape route.

IIUC they changed it after, to no longer require the self closers, and
to also require 30 min fire doors on the other storeys for doors opening
onto the escape route. They also did away for the need for escape
windows on a conversion that extends beyond two storeys.

You still need 30 min fire protection to the ceiling of the second
storey, and mains interlinked smoke alarms on each storey.

For the fire doors there was a minimum depth of 25mm for the door stop -
there was no requirement for intumescent strips etc then - not sure
about now. (I used standard linings, but made up my own stops by ripping
down and thicknessing slices off a 8x3")

You also need three fire rated hinges per door.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/05/16 00:02, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/05/2016 21:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/05/16 21:54, Phil L wrote:
wrote:
Could anyone save me a headache and tell me how much head-room is
required in a room build within a pitched roof space? I am hoping to
make a room whose height varies because of the pitch of the roof. At
one side of the room, the wall will be about a metre tall, and the
other side of the room will have a wall that is taller than a tall
human... But I'd like to know what are the minimum requirements. What
percentage of the room needs to be taller than a human? When I sell
the place, I'd like to be able to call the planned attic room an
(official) 'bedroom'. (And yes, the floor will be reinforced with
whatever joist specs building regs require.


As others have said, the height is more or less up to you, from a safety
point of view, fireproofing is your biggest headache.

All your downstairs and upstairs doors (into habitable rooms - not
kitchen
or bathroom) will have to be changed to 1 hour firedoors, not so much
of a
biggy, except the frames aren't suitable, which means you'll have to
have
all the doors and frames in the house removed and new ones fitted, with
closers and intumescent strips.
All the ceilings in the house may have to have another layer of
plasterboard
and be plastered, this is quite probably going to upset the decor in the
whole house, so make sure you factor these jobs into any costings etc
before
you start.



Are you sure? Or is it a recent change? I know of a 3rd storey attic
conversion that was done by the book a few years ago and non of this was
required.

ISTR recall the rules changed a bit after I did mine... I needed to do
fire doors on the new storey for all habitable rooms, and then only add
self closers for any doors on other storeys that opened onto the escape
route.

IIUC they changed it after, to no longer require the self closers, and
to also require 30 min fire doors on the other storeys for doors opening
onto the escape route. They also did away for the need for escape
windows on a conversion that extends beyond two storeys.

You still need 30 min fire protection to the ceiling of the second
storey, and mains interlinked smoke alarms on each storey.

For the fire doors there was a minimum depth of 25mm for the door stop -
there was no requirement for intumescent strips etc then - not sure
about now. (I used standard linings, but made up my own stops by ripping
down and thicknessing slices off a 8x3")

You also need three fire rated hinges per door.


Wow.

Glad I'm not building one! (Just tarting up an old one)

In message , Phil L
writes

Are you sure? Or is it a recent change? I know of a 3rd storey attic
conversion that was done by the book a few years ago and non of this
was required.

Without knowing the exact layout of his house, it's impossible to say, I've
only worked on newbuild where there's a loft room, but there are plenty of
rules for existing houses too:
https://www.labc.co.uk/sites/default...onversions.pdf
He will need firedoors on the landing and quite possibly downtairs too if
the staircase isn't enclosed.

Closers aren't required though

I've just hit this with a design for a chalet bungalow alteration with
an open staircase to a *gallery lounge*. Fire door and self closer on
landing access to bedrooms. Drawings currently with BC so we'll see.

--
Tim Lamb

On 13/05/2016 07:22, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/05/16 00:02, John Rumm wrote:

ISTR recall the rules changed a bit after I did mine... I needed to do
fire doors on the new storey for all habitable rooms, and then only add
self closers for any doors on other storeys that opened onto the escape
route.

IIUC they changed it after, to no longer require the self closers, and
to also require 30 min fire doors on the other storeys for doors opening
onto the escape route. They also did away for the need for escape
windows on a conversion that extends beyond two storeys.

You still need 30 min fire protection to the ceiling of the second
storey, and mains interlinked smoke alarms on each storey.

For the fire doors there was a minimum depth of 25mm for the door stop -
there was no requirement for intumescent strips etc then - not sure
about now. (I used standard linings, but made up my own stops by ripping
down and thicknessing slices off a 8x3")

You also need three fire rated hinges per door.


Wow.

Glad I'm not building one! (Just tarting up an old one)

Yours would sidestep most of the rules anyway since its not adding a
third storey.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/05/16 09:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 07:22, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/05/16 00:02, John Rumm wrote:

ISTR recall the rules changed a bit after I did mine... I needed to do
fire doors on the new storey for all habitable rooms, and then only add
self closers for any doors on other storeys that opened onto the escape
route.

IIUC they changed it after, to no longer require the self closers, and
to also require 30 min fire doors on the other storeys for doors opening
onto the escape route. They also did away for the need for escape
windows on a conversion that extends beyond two storeys.

You still need 30 min fire protection to the ceiling of the second
storey, and mains interlinked smoke alarms on each storey.

For the fire doors there was a minimum depth of 25mm for the door stop -
there was no requirement for intumescent strips etc then - not sure
about now. (I used standard linings, but made up my own stops by ripping
down and thicknessing slices off a 8x3")

You also need three fire rated hinges per door.


Wow.

Glad I'm not building one! (Just tarting up an old one)

Yours would sidestep most of the rules anyway since its not adding a
third storey.



Oddly the BCO did confirm I needed egress windows (which I was going to
do anyway - as well, it's just sensible).

On 13/05/2016 09:29, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/05/16 09:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 07:22, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/05/16 00:02, John Rumm wrote:

ISTR recall the rules changed a bit after I did mine... I needed to do
fire doors on the new storey for all habitable rooms, and then only
add
self closers for any doors on other storeys that opened onto the escape
route.

IIUC they changed it after, to no longer require the self closers, and
to also require 30 min fire doors on the other storeys for doors
opening
onto the escape route. They also did away for the need for escape
windows on a conversion that extends beyond two storeys.

You still need 30 min fire protection to the ceiling of the second
storey, and mains interlinked smoke alarms on each storey.

For the fire doors there was a minimum depth of 25mm for the door
stop -
there was no requirement for intumescent strips etc then - not sure
about now. (I used standard linings, but made up my own stops by
ripping
down and thicknessing slices off a 8x3")

You also need three fire rated hinges per door.


Wow.

Glad I'm not building one! (Just tarting up an old one)

Yours would sidestep most of the rules anyway since its not adding a
third storey.



Oddly the BCO did confirm I needed egress windows (which I was going to
do anyway - as well, it's just sensible).

I think they stopped insisting on that on higher storeys since they
figured the risk of climbing out onto a high roof, potentially in the
dark and the rain, was probably worse than taking your chances with a fire!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/