If you have been using the HomeOwnersHub web site, you may have wondered
why a number of posters seem rather confused by some of the messages you
have been posting. Hopefully this post will make clear why this is
happening.

HomeOwnersHub (HOH) is one of a number of web sites that provide a
gateway to one or more USENET newsgroups. In this particular case it
connects to the USENET group "uk.d-i-y"

For details about this group, please read:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/about.html

For some background and links about usenet groups and how they are
normally used, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...up_access_tips


Like good comedy, Timing is everything
=======================================

Usenet groups are generally "ephemeral". Once a post has been sent to a
news server, it will be shared around the world with other news servers.
Depending on how busy the group is, and the storage space allocated by
the server to the group, each server may only store messages for a few
weeks or months before expiring them.

So when replying to a post, please take careful note of the date on
which it was posted. There is little point in making a response to a
post concerning a problem with someone's central heating, if the problem
occurred in 2006 - One, they have probably fixed it by now, and two,
most readers of your message won't be able to see what you are replying
to - so it will make little sense!

(Although many news servers won't retain posts to a group for an
extended period, once a post has been made and distributed to other
servers, you have to assume that its never going to go away completely -
there will always be a copy somewhere! You can't delete a message once
posted. There are also archives of past usenet postings, google for
example have groups.google.com that makes many years worth of posts to
this group searchable).


Quoting
=======

News reader software usually makes it easy to include in your message
parts of the post you are replying to. This is called "quoting". Careful
use of quoting - e.g. leaving in just enough of the original message in
place, will help readers follow the thread of the conversation. Note
that some users (especially sight impaired ones) will depend quite
heavily on this quoted content to make sense of postings. If you don't
include sensibly trimmed quoted content you will irritate many users who
won't know what you are replying to. (and including too much, will
irritate others!)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

If you have been using the HomeOwnersHub web site, you may have wondered
why a number of posters seem rather confused by some of the messages you
have been posting. Hopefully this post will make clear why this is
happening.

snip

Well said John but it doesn't seem to be showing up on the HomeOwnersHub
(yet) as a recent message. Hopefully it's just a question of time before it
propagates and not any jiggerypokery by the site admin.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

wrote:
My summary fwiw:

1. A lot of homeownershubbers are replying to questions asked in 2007 etc
- check the date first.

2. If you ask a question, be ready to come back with more info when asked
for it, or you likely won't get the help you seek.

3. Do yourself a real favour and use a more functional newsgroup
interface than homeownershub. Even the criticised Google groups interface
is hugely better - it actually works.

Do those and you'll probably get a warm helpful reception. (Homeownershub
is so broken that the usual response is just people peed off.)



Additionally, if you have a problem start a new thread with all the
relevant info relating to your problem rather than "piggy-backing" on to a
many years old message.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

My summary fwiw:

1. A lot of homeownershubbers are replying to questions asked in 2007 etc - check the date first.

2. If you ask a question, be ready to come back with more info when asked for it, or you likely won't get the help you seek.

3. Do yourself a real favour and use a more functional newsgroup interface than homeownershub. Even the criticised Google groups interface is hugely better - it actually works.

Do those and you'll probably get a warm helpful reception. (Homeownershub is so broken that the usual response is just people peed off.)


NT

On Monday, 18 April 2016 22:10:37 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

Well said John but it doesn't seem to be showing up on the HomeOwnersHub
(yet) as a recent message. Hopefully it's just a question of time before it
propagates and not any jiggerypokery by the site admin.

it should pop up in about 8 years then.


NT

Let's agree to use John's excellent wording, and post a timely
follow-up to each homeowners message as and when they occur, appending
our own sig instead of John's.

Inevitably there will be duplications due to propagation times, but
the aim will be single follow-up, not a flood.

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Tim+ wrote:

Additionally, if you have a problem start a new thread with all the
relevant info relating to your problem rather than "piggy-backing" on to a
many years old message.

The trouble is that the posters will be going straight to a thread page
via Google (the HOH indexes will doubtless be date sorted so 2007 stuff
isn't going to be directly found) and aren't going to see John's helpful
post. They'll see the posts neatly laid out and won't see any reason to
quote anything as "it's already there."

The bull/horns approach would be to sign up to HOH and try and get
John's post "stickied" or turned into useful info on the sign up page.

OTOH, HOH won't care as they want *their* site to get traffic and are
merely poaching UKDIY posts to bulk things up.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

I think this kind of thing has gone on since the start of the web. Most of
us who have been here a long time do remember a world where the internet had
no web sites at all.
Hard to imagine. I sometimes wish it still didn't!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

If you have been using the HomeOwnersHub web site, you may have wondered
why a number of posters seem rather confused by some of the messages you
have been posting. Hopefully this post will make clear why this is
happening.

snip

Well said John but it doesn't seem to be showing up on the HomeOwnersHub
(yet) as a recent message. Hopefully it's just a question of time before
it
propagates and not any jiggerypokery by the site admin.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

Yes many of these are not actually written to cope with anybody who uses
news clients as we do. I used to get moans about the top posting but the
people I speak to now seem to be split 450/50 about this. It very much
depends on how the system is being used.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
My summary fwiw:

1. A lot of homeownershubbers are replying to questions asked in 2007
etc - check the date first.

2. If you ask a question, be ready to come back with more info when asked
for it, or you likely won't get the help you seek.

3. Do yourself a real favour and use a more functional newsgroup interface
than homeownershub. Even the criticised Google groups interface is hugely
better - it actually works.

Do those and you'll probably get a warm helpful reception. (Homeownershub
is so broken that the usual response is just people peed off.)


NT

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:37:44 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

I think this kind of thing has gone on since the start of the web. Most of
us who have been here a long time do remember a world where the internet had
no web sites at all.
Hard to imagine. I sometimes wish it still didn't!
Brian

Not since the start, only since September 1993.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

John Rumm wrote:

If you have been using the HomeOwnersHub web site,


I've had a closer look at the site and it really is appallingly useless.
Apart from the inability to quote, and the arbitrary ranking of threads,
and the invitation to answer undated questions, answers given on Usenet are
either being picked up incredibly slowly or not at all.

I've tried searching for messages I've responded to with no luck so I
suspect the silence we hear from those responded to is because they're not
seeing replies.

The site's sole purpose seems to be advertising revenue. It has the
thinnest veneer of functionality just to get users.

Tim

On 19/04/2016 09:47, Tim+ wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

If you have been using the HomeOwnersHub web site,


I've had a closer look at the site and it really is appallingly useless.
Apart from the inability to quote, and the arbitrary ranking of threads,
and the invitation to answer undated questions, answers given on Usenet are
either being picked up incredibly slowly or not at all.

I've tried searching for messages I've responded to with no luck so I
suspect the silence we hear from those responded to is because they're not
seeing replies.

Actually it looks as if most of the recent threads on uk.d-i-y are
there. The one exception (for some unknown reason) is Jim's question
about sealing osb3 board. And this thread. Are they filtering messages
with HomeOwnersHub in the title?

On 19/04/2016 08:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes many of these are not actually written to cope with anybody who uses
news clients as we do. I used to get moans about the top posting but the
people I speak to now seem to be split 450/50 about this. It very much
depends on how the system is being used.

People are also more used to corporate email style these days, where top
posting and not editing the quoted section at all is common.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 19/04/2016 08:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes many of these are not actually written to cope with anybody who uses
news clients as we do. I used to get moans about the top posting but the
people I speak to now seem to be split 450/50 about this. It very much
depends on how the system is being used.

People are also more used to corporate email style these days, where
top posting and not editing the quoted section at all is common.

Yes. Also I suspect that the earlier message is only identified by
rather than coloured red as in my reader.

I came unstuck interleaving a response to a solicitor recently. A few
posts later, it became obvious he had not read my comments at all.

Has the benefit of reading messages not necessarily meant for your eyes
as some secretary fails to trim:-)



--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 19/04/2016 08:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes many of these are not actually written to cope with anybody who uses
news clients as we do. I used to get moans about the top posting but the
people I speak to now seem to be split 450/50 about this. It very much
depends on how the system is being used.

People are also more used to corporate email style these days, where
top posting and not editing the quoted section at all is common.

Yes. Also I suspect that the earlier message is only identified by
rather than coloured red as in my reader.

I came unstuck interleaving a response to a solicitor recently. A few
posts later, it became obvious he had not read my comments at all.


I mostly just top post in email nowadays, unless I'm
communicating with someone I know who will appreciate it :-)
Also, snipping, interleaving etc is a bit more faff on a
phone/tablet which where I read and send most emails nowadays.


In the end it's just a convention, it doesn't really bother me.
--
Chris French

Graham. Wrote in message:

Let's agree to use John's excellent wording, and post a timely
follow-up to each homeowners message as and when they occur, appending
our own sig instead of John's.

Inevitably there will be duplications due to propagation times, but
the aim will be single follow-up, not a flood.

Where are all these messages from HOH? I can't say I've noticed
anything , I wasn't aware of I until you all started talking
about it :-)

Though I think trying to do anything about it is a waste of time.
Just click on by.


--
--
Chris French

On 19 Apr 2016, Chris French grunted:

Where are all these messages from HOH? I can't say I've noticed
anything , I wasn't aware of I until you all started talking
about it :-)

Most of them seem to show up in my newsreader with the original post on the
thread titles as " " something-or-other, because they are replies to
posts or threads which vanished from my client and/or server many years
ago.

The other thing is a .sig like this:

posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...ir-575727-.htm


--
David