I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg



--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

LOL
That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable
so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the
mower plugged into that.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:39:40 +0100, "bm" wrote:

snip

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

LOL
That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable
so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the
mower plugged into that.


I've seen that done between a loft power ring and the socket on the
landing (13A plug top both ends of a mains lead) and whilst it 'works'
and 'safe' ... as long as you unplug the landing end *first* it's not
to be recommended for use anywhere! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 16/04/16 18:20, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:39:40 +0100, "bm" wrote:

snip

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

LOL
That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable
so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the
mower plugged into that.


I've seen that done between a loft power ring and the socket on the
landing (13A plug top both ends of a mains lead) and whilst it 'works'
and 'safe' ... as long as you unplug the landing end *first* it's not
to be recommended for use anywhere! ;-)

Cheers, T i m


Ah - the Jesus Cord....

ARW wrote:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg



Darwin test when lampholder is earthed to "neutral"?

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:44:36 +0100, Capitol wrote:

ARW wrote:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg



Darwin test when lampholder is earthed to "neutral"?


I would hazard a guess that it may pass through the odd testing
regime. :-)


Was on an MOD site some years back and if you replace the connector
with a bit of 5A chockstrip, the only difference was the style of lamp
and the "do not use after" label on the plug.

The cable ran into a cupboard and out the other side!


The company that tests our stuff now are so much better. Earth bond
tests at 1kV according to the paperwork.

AB

Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.
Why not just write what it was and what happened?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg



--
Adam

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7c/HTH.jpg


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.
Why not just write what it was and what happened?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg



--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7c/HTH.jpg

You're a very naughty boy.

On Sunday, 17 April 2016 10:03:46 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7c/HTH.jpg

ALT text for Brian: hand making rude gesture with single finger.

Owain

Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.

Oddly, I found it perfectly usable.

Why not just write what it was and what happened?

Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a
thousand words.

I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

Tim

On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.

Oddly, I found it perfectly usable.

Why not just write what it was and what happened?

Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a
thousand words.

If you're not blind.

Brian is.

I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.

Oddly, I found it perfectly usable.

Why not just write what it was and what happened?

Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a
thousand words.

If you're not blind.

Brian is.

I believe that most posters are well aware that Brian's favourite colour is
corduroy.

Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette


I made a post to uk.d-i-y not to uk.blind.******s.


--
Adam

Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.

Oddly, I found it perfectly usable.

Why not just write what it was and what happened?

Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a
thousand words.

If you're not blind.

Brian is.

Duh. Please read the whole post before saying anything silly.


I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette

The web has come along way since the inception of Usenet and whilst links
to pictures and websites was once not approved of due to slow internet
speeds, now it is routine to post such things. It's a clock that's not
gonna get turned back I'm afraid.

Brian can whine but unfortunately for him, links to sites and pictures are
now "normal".

Tim

On 17/04/16 21:01, Tim+ wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.

Oddly, I found it perfectly usable.

Why not just write what it was and what happened?

Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a
thousand words.

If you're not blind.

Brian is.

Duh. Please read the whole post before saying anything silly.


I DID read the whole ****ing post!


I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette

The web has come along way since the inception of Usenet and whilst links
to pictures and websites was once not approved of due to slow internet
speeds, now it is routine to post such things. It's a clock that's not
gonna get turned back I'm afraid.

Rather the contrary - on mobile devices with poor data links, it's as
relevant now as it was then.


Brian can whine but unfortunately for him, links to sites and pictures are
now "normal".

Tim




In case you had not noticed, NNTP != "the web".

And links to pictures are fine - but it's nice to add a bit of
explanation as text - eg "can I expect this to be SFW (work)"?

Clearly Adam's post is SFW, but I'm replying to you in general.

Tim+ wrote:

I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

But Usenet is a text only medium so there's not much alternative to
text is there?

--
Chris Green
·

wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all
USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner.

But Usenet is a text only medium so there's not much alternative to
text is there?


Um, obviously I've been imagining those web links to photos and other
sites.

Tim

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:38:06 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot.
Why not just write what it was and what happened?
Brian

You didn't miss anything, Brian. They were just a bunch of badly framed
photos showing in line cord connectors with 13 amp plugs demonstrating
unsafe wiring practice (twin core bell wire in one case and a male in
line connector wired to a 13 amp plug in another).

--
Johnny B Good

En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

Ahh, a widowmaker.

Classy.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

Ahh, a widowmaker.

Classy.

My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits.
Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked
like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames.

Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago
and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal
replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a
whole house rcd.

When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S
or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters
afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped
and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness.
The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much
bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and
inevitably fell and buggered his hip.

I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they
couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

Ahh, a widowmaker.

Classy.

My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits.
Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked
like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames.

Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago
and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal
replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a
whole house rcd.

When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S
or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters
afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped
and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness.
The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much
bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and
inevitably fell and buggered his hip.



I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they
couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted.

So why did the RCD trip? The lamp (bulb) is not connected to earth,


--
Adam

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

Ahh, a widowmaker.

Classy.

My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits.
Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked
like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames.

Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago
and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal
replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a
whole house rcd.

When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S
or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters
afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped
and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness.
The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much
bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and
inevitably fell and buggered his hip.

I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they
couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted.



My childhood house was built in the year I was born, 1953 and we
had a pair of those glass shell chrome framed wall-lights in the
hall. We also had the matching triple-shell ceiling light, but
oddly this was fitted in my mum and dad's bedroom.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sunday, 17 April 2016 10:47:34 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

Ahh, a widowmaker.

Looks like a prototype stun gun set to kill.

In article ,
says...

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

I got involved with Cable TV at about the time that a large roll-out was
imminent and worked with a group of ex-BT guys who had no knowledge of TV.

One was known universally, from his senior manager down as Elsie ...

The Telco side of CATV is different to BT because one large Switch (aka
exchange) feeds a very large geographical area which means that there is a
lot of fibre-fed intelligence in the street - remember, this was over 20
years ago, long before broadband internet - with only the connection to the
local subscribers being on copper.

All of this kit is provided with battery back-up to maintain service in the
event of a power cut but, if the cut is prolonged, a portable generator is
used. Planning for this is where Elsie came in.

In Elsie's mind, the generator would be plugged into the street cabinet, so I
heard him proposing one day that that a Commando socket would be fitted to
the equipment with a plug on the cable from the generator to plug into it!

Of course, another plug would be required in the mains input which would
automatically become live when the power was resumed ...

When I tackled him on this, he genuinely didn't understood my concern and it
took all morning to finally convince him of the error of his ways!

I was always puzzled by his name - I certainly didn't see any indication that
it referred to his sexuality - until his manager explained it to me one day.
It dated back to his BT days and wasn't Elsie at all but LC - short for Lazy
C**t ...!

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2016-04-16, ARW wrote:

I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg

I was interested as it was powering this

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg

which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg

And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg

I suspected after the first one that that might be the punchline.
Those things are fine if you fit them the right way around, though,
aren't they?

In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.

It came in on a fan heater to a repair event in Reading a month or
two back. Fan heater was quite old but a very high quality metal one
which you'd never find today. It had a high quality MK plug, but I
did instantly notice the live pin was very slightly out of alignment
and the plug top had very slight scalding visible.

However, I started by assuming there was a fault in the fan heater,
and opened it up to inspect. Couldn't see anything wrong inside or
any reason for it to have blown its fuse - as I said, it was much
better quality than anything you would find today.

Then turned my attention to the plug. Inside, it initially looked
burned around the fuse ends, but on closer inspection, this was
mostly vapourised copper. It was only when I popped the fuse out
that I noticed you could see right down the centre of the ceramic
tube, because the arc had eaten away the fuse wire, before
continuing to vapourise the fuse caps into a plasma. It was only
at this point the the owner exaplained the arcing was from the plug
and not the heater, and it didn't stop until they plucked up the
courage to reach nearby and flick off the switch at the socket.

Anyway, the fuse was not to BS1362 or kitemarked - it was probably
an old fuse predating mandatory conformance to relevant British
Standards which was introduced sometime around 1970. There was no
evidence it had ever been sandfilled either (which is there to
quickly quench the arc which happens as the wire fuses).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.



--
Les

In article ,
Big Les Wade wrote:
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.

Something that measures insulation and earth continuity. An old fashioned
"Megger" would me fine. However expensive boxes that say "Pass" or "fail"
are easier to use.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 08:56:55 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
Big Les Wade wrote:
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.

Something that measures insulation and earth continuity. An old fashioned
"Megger" would me fine. However expensive boxes that say "Pass" or "fail"
are easier to use.

The even more expensive ones can produce a sticker and record the info so you can print it out later and use it as a stock checker too.



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 20/04/16 08:37, Big Les Wade wrote:
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.


You would know if you did a C&G 2377-22 (IIRC)

Basically you need a PAT tester.
https://www.pattesters.co.uk/

I have done "sort of" PAT tests (not officially, just on my own stuff)
with a Megger 1552 - it's got enough functionality to perform an
insulation and earth continuity test

"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
...

What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance?

They wonder why they are doing it and why some company is paying for it.
It's a load of ******** just like the asbestos awareness course I have to
attend every year- which is now 3 hours long but it was just the same course
as last year when it only had to be 1 hour long - except we had a 2 hour
refreshment break this year half way thouigh the 3 hour course.


--
Adam

In article ,
Big Les Wade writes:
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.

You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important
part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do.
Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual
inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which
passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT
tester.

If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they
don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very
common.

There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken
over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited
in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing
which is typically performed in workplaces.
http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing

As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent
member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained
to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of
C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam
at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to
wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms
and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important
part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do.
Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual
inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which
passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT
tester.

If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they
don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very
common.

There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken
over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited
in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing
which is typically performed in workplaces.
http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing

As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent
member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained
to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of
C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam
at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to
wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms
and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician.

I've had a number of items pass visual then fail insulation test. Elements go leaky, crud builds up, and in one case dog pee was to blame.

Non electricians can do pat tests upto a point, but you do need some electrical/electronic knowledge to spot some of the less obvious gotchas.


NT

On 20/04/16 23:11, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Big Les Wade writes:
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article ,
"ARW" writes:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR

That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when
a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and
turns into an arc lamp.


What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is
it something that I can't do without special kit?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf

"In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff
can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and
training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing,
a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person
will need:
the right equipment to do the tests
the ability to use this test equipment properly
the ability to properly understand the test results"

What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told.

You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important
part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do.
Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual
inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which
passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT
tester.

If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they
don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very
common.

Indeed. I've done the first part of 2377 and most of it is "check for
damage and check the fuse". I've been meaning to give a mini session to
my colleagues.

And with Class II appliances there's not really much else you can do.
Class I needs an earth continuity test and an IR test.

There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken
over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited
in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing
which is typically performed in workplaces.
http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing

As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent
member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained
to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of
C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam
at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to
wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms
and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician.


And yet, I know a place (1000's employees) that doesn't have a PAT tech
resident. So booking tests is a faff, covers 200 items minimum and costs
accordingly. If you are serious about safety, a PAT test of a new Class
I appliance (at risk appliance, eg cooking item) should be no more than
a phone call away to the local chap who wanders round at a convenient
time in the next few days.

On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:




You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded).

How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply low voltage) and it's IEC lead.


If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they
don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very
common.

well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-)


As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent
member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained
to perform PAT testing.

yes we did that here.


They should complete both parts of
C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam
at the end).

I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than hours or days.

Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to
wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms
and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician.

I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:




You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded).

How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply
low voltage) and it's IEC lead.


If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't
know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common.

well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-)


As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of
staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT
testing.

yes we did that here.


They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two
consective days with the exam at the end).

I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than
hours or days.

Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing
the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an
electrician.

I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass
or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal.

but the tester (the person) has to carry out a visual test, too. Is the
cable damaged; is the cable properly secured at both ends; etc.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
whisky-dave writes:
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:




You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a
screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded).

How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply low voltage) and it's IEC lead.

A couple of mins, plus one more if it's a rewirable plug,
and assuming nothing needs fixing to make it pass.
There's also the management of PAT testing (record keeping,
pass/fail labels, etc), then add that on top, although some
PAT testers will do some of that for you, which can be a big
time saver if you are doing a lot of items.

Other things can vary with the quality of the tester. Better
ones will use 25A for the earth continuity test, in which
case it's done in a fraction of a second. Others will use
200mA, in which case it takes longer as you need to flex the
cable along its length to verify no partial earth connection
whilst it's passing 200mA.

If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they
don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very
common.

well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-)


As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent
member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained
to perform PAT testing.

yes we did that here.


They should complete both parts of
C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam
at the end).

I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than hours or days.

Maybe you can. The training is a day - I think the exam was
somewhere between 30 and 60 mins. You could in theory just do
the exam if you can find a testing centre which will enter you
for it without doing the training.

Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to
wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms
and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician.

I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal.

The certification is to make sure you understand the principles
and also the legal requirements you need to meet.
Some PAT tester vendor training just concentrates on how to use
the tester, but that is only a small part of PAT testing, as
explained earlier.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]