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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Nice PAT test fail
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg -- Adam |
#2
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Nice PAT test fail
"ARW" wrote in message ... I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg LOL That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the mower plugged into that. |
#3
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Nice PAT test fail
On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:39:40 +0100, "bm" wrote:
snip http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg LOL That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the mower plugged into that. I've seen that done between a loft power ring and the socket on the landing (13A plug top both ends of a mains lead) and whilst it 'works' and 'safe' ... as long as you unplug the landing end *first* it's not to be recommended for use anywhere! ;-) Cheers, T i m |
#4
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Nice PAT test fail
On 16/04/16 18:20, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:39:40 +0100, "bm" wrote: snip http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg LOL That's similar to a neighbour of mine, needed to extend his lawnmower cable so used a cable with 13A plugs on both ends plugged into a multiplug and the mower plugged into that. I've seen that done between a loft power ring and the socket on the landing (13A plug top both ends of a mains lead) and whilst it 'works' and 'safe' ... as long as you unplug the landing end *first* it's not to be recommended for use anywhere! ;-) Cheers, T i m Ah - the Jesus Cord.... |
#5
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Nice PAT test fail
ARW wrote:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Darwin test when lampholder is earthed to "neutral"? |
#6
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Nice PAT test fail
On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:44:36 +0100, Capitol wrote:
ARW wrote: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Darwin test when lampholder is earthed to "neutral"? I would hazard a guess that it may pass through the odd testing regime. :-) Was on an MOD site some years back and if you replace the connector with a bit of 5A chockstrip, the only difference was the style of lamp and the "do not use after" label on the plug. The cable ran into a cupboard and out the other side! The company that tests our stuff now are so much better. Earth bond tests at 1kV according to the paperwork. AB |
#8
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Nice PAT test fail
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7c/HTH.jpg
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message ... Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "ARW" wrote in message ... I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg -- Adam |
#9
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Nice PAT test fail
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#10
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Nice PAT test fail
On Sunday, 17 April 2016 10:03:46 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7c/HTH.jpg ALT text for Brian: hand making rude gesture with single finger. Owain |
#11
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Nice PAT test fail
Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Oddly, I found it perfectly usable. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. Tim |
#12
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Nice PAT test fail
On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote: Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Oddly, I found it perfectly usable. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. If you're not blind. Brian is. I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette |
#13
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Nice PAT test fail
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
... On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote: Brian Gaff wrote: Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Oddly, I found it perfectly usable. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. If you're not blind. Brian is. I believe that most posters are well aware that Brian's favourite colour is corduroy. Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette I made a post to uk.d-i-y not to uk.blind.******s. -- Adam |
#14
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Nice PAT test fail
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote: Brian Gaff wrote: Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Oddly, I found it perfectly usable. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. If you're not blind. Brian is. Duh. Please read the whole post before saying anything silly. I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette The web has come along way since the inception of Usenet and whilst links to pictures and websites was once not approved of due to slow internet speeds, now it is routine to post such things. It's a clock that's not gonna get turned back I'm afraid. Brian can whine but unfortunately for him, links to sites and pictures are now "normal". Tim |
#15
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Nice PAT test fail
On 17/04/16 21:01, Tim+ wrote:
Tim Watts wrote: On 17/04/16 19:53, Tim+ wrote: Brian Gaff wrote: Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Oddly, I found it perfectly usable. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Because that would take a lot longer and sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. If you're not blind. Brian is. Duh. Please read the whole post before saying anything silly. I DID read the whole ****ing post! I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. Well, there is that - OTOH, there's no harm in a bit of Netiquette The web has come along way since the inception of Usenet and whilst links to pictures and websites was once not approved of due to slow internet speeds, now it is routine to post such things. It's a clock that's not gonna get turned back I'm afraid. Rather the contrary - on mobile devices with poor data links, it's as relevant now as it was then. Brian can whine but unfortunately for him, links to sites and pictures are now "normal". Tim In case you had not noticed, NNTP != "the web". And links to pictures are fine - but it's nice to add a bit of explanation as text - eg "can I expect this to be SFW (work)"? Clearly Adam's post is SFW, but I'm replying to you in general. |
#16
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Nice PAT test fail
Tim+ wrote:
I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. But Usenet is a text only medium so there's not much alternative to text is there? -- Chris Green · |
#17
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Nice PAT test fail
wrote:
Tim+ wrote: I think you're being a bit, no, a *lot* unrealistic if you're expecting all USENET users to post in a visually impaired friendly manner. But Usenet is a text only medium so there's not much alternative to text is there? Um, obviously I've been imagining those web links to photos and other sites. Tim |
#18
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Nice PAT test fail
On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 08:38:06 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well how to write a post that is totally unusable. Thanks a lot. Why not just write what it was and what happened? Brian You didn't miss anything, Brian. They were just a bunch of badly framed photos showing in line cord connectors with 13 amp plugs demonstrating unsafe wiring practice (twin core bell wire in one case and a male in line connector wired to a 13 amp plug in another). -- Johnny B Good |
#19
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Nice PAT test fail
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Ahh, a widowmaker. Classy. -- (\_/) (='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging. (")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg |
#20
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Nice PAT test fail
On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Ahh, a widowmaker. Classy. My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits. Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames. Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a whole house rcd. When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness. The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and inevitably fell and buggered his hip. I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted. |
#21
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Nice PAT test fail
"Andrew" wrote in message
... On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Ahh, a widowmaker. Classy. My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits. Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames. Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a whole house rcd. When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness. The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and inevitably fell and buggered his hip. I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted. So why did the RCD trip? The lamp (bulb) is not connected to earth, -- Adam |
#22
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Nice PAT test fail
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 17/04/2016 09:44, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Ahh, a widowmaker. Classy. My fathers house was built in 1956, so no cpc in the lighting circuits. Lounge had 4 fantastic wall lights with glass diffusers that looked like shells (aka the petrol logos) and metal frames. Step mother decided 'they need replacement' about 10 years ago and commissioned an electrician to have some horrible curly metal replacements but being metal, and without a cpc he fitted a whole house rcd. When they got too old to buy proper bulbs they relied on M&S or Tesco own-brand 40w candle bulbs until one gloomy winters afternoon they turned on the lights, one cheap bulb popped and tripped the rcd, plunging the whole house into darkness. The offending bulb came apart in the holder, and after much bickering, elderly father tried to use step ladder and inevitably fell and buggered his hip. I suspect more elderly people die from falls (because they couldn't replace bulbs) than have ever been electrocuted. My childhood house was built in the year I was born, 1953 and we had a pair of those glass shell chrome framed wall-lights in the hall. We also had the matching triple-shell ceiling light, but oddly this was fitted in my mum and dad's bedroom. -- %Profound_observation% ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#23
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Nice PAT test fail
On Sunday, 17 April 2016 10:47:34 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg Ahh, a widowmaker. Looks like a prototype stun gun set to kill. |
#24
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
says... And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg I got involved with Cable TV at about the time that a large roll-out was imminent and worked with a group of ex-BT guys who had no knowledge of TV. One was known universally, from his senior manager down as Elsie ... The Telco side of CATV is different to BT because one large Switch (aka exchange) feeds a very large geographical area which means that there is a lot of fibre-fed intelligence in the street - remember, this was over 20 years ago, long before broadband internet - with only the connection to the local subscribers being on copper. All of this kit is provided with battery back-up to maintain service in the event of a power cut but, if the cut is prolonged, a portable generator is used. Planning for this is where Elsie came in. In Elsie's mind, the generator would be plugged into the street cabinet, so I heard him proposing one day that that a Commando socket would be fitted to the equipment with a plug on the cable from the generator to plug into it! Of course, another plug would be required in the mains input which would automatically become live when the power was resumed ... When I tackled him on this, he genuinely didn't understood my concern and it took all morning to finally convince him of the error of his ways! I was always puzzled by his name - I certainly didn't see any indication that it referred to his sexuality - until his manager explained it to me one day. It dated back to his BT days and wasn't Elsie at all but LC - short for Lazy C**t ...! -- Terry --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#25
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Nice PAT test fail
On 2016-04-16, ARW wrote:
I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC1.jpg I was interested as it was powering this http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC2.jpg which had a brass lampholder (needs an earth). http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC3.jpg And for the grand finale of **** ups (the picture says it all) we have http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:PATC4.jpg I suspected after the first one that that might be the punchline. Those things are fine if you fit them the right way around, though, aren't they? |
#26
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
"ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. It came in on a fan heater to a repair event in Reading a month or two back. Fan heater was quite old but a very high quality metal one which you'd never find today. It had a high quality MK plug, but I did instantly notice the live pin was very slightly out of alignment and the plug top had very slight scalding visible. However, I started by assuming there was a fault in the fan heater, and opened it up to inspect. Couldn't see anything wrong inside or any reason for it to have blown its fuse - as I said, it was much better quality than anything you would find today. Then turned my attention to the plug. Inside, it initially looked burned around the fuse ends, but on closer inspection, this was mostly vapourised copper. It was only when I popped the fuse out that I noticed you could see right down the centre of the ceramic tube, because the arc had eaten away the fuse wire, before continuing to vapourise the fuse caps into a plasma. It was only at this point the the owner exaplained the arcing was from the plug and not the heater, and it didn't stop until they plucked up the courage to reach nearby and flick off the switch at the socket. Anyway, the fuse was not to BS1362 or kitemarked - it was probably an old fuse predating mandatory conformance to relevant British Standards which was introduced sometime around 1970. There was no evidence it had ever been sandfilled either (which is there to quickly quench the arc which happens as the wire fuses). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#27
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Nice PAT test fail
Andrew Gabriel posted
In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. -- Les |
#28
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
Big Les Wade wrote: Andrew Gabriel posted In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. Something that measures insulation and earth continuity. An old fashioned "Megger" would me fine. However expensive boxes that say "Pass" or "fail" are easier to use. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
#29
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Nice PAT test fail
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 08:56:55 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article , Big Les Wade wrote: Andrew Gabriel posted In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. Something that measures insulation and earth continuity. An old fashioned "Megger" would me fine. However expensive boxes that say "Pass" or "fail" are easier to use. The even more expensive ones can produce a sticker and record the info so you can print it out later and use it as a stock checker too. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
#30
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Nice PAT test fail
On 20/04/16 08:37, Big Les Wade wrote:
Andrew Gabriel posted In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. You would know if you did a C&G 2377-22 (IIRC) Basically you need a PAT tester. https://www.pattesters.co.uk/ I have done "sort of" PAT tests (not officially, just on my own stuff) with a Megger 1552 - it's got enough functionality to perform an insulation and earth continuity test |
#31
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Nice PAT test fail
"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
... What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? They wonder why they are doing it and why some company is paying for it. It's a load of ******** just like the asbestos awareness course I have to attend every year- which is now 3 hours long but it was just the same course as last year when it only had to be 1 hour long - except we had a 2 hour refreshment break this year half way thouigh the 3 hour course. -- Adam |
#32
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
Big Les Wade writes: Andrew Gabriel posted In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do. Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT tester. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing which is typically performed in workplaces. http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#33
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Nice PAT test fail
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do. Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT tester. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing which is typically performed in workplaces. http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. I've had a number of items pass visual then fail insulation test. Elements go leaky, crud builds up, and in one case dog pee was to blame. Non electricians can do pat tests upto a point, but you do need some electrical/electronic knowledge to spot some of the less obvious gotchas. NT |
#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Nice PAT test fail
On 20/04/16 23:11, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , Big Les Wade writes: Andrew Gabriel posted In article , "ARW" writes: I was not PAT testing but I did spot this today whilst doing an EICR That reminds me, must take a pic and upload of what happens when a 13A fuse (not claiming to conform to BS1362) fails to blow, and turns into an arc lamp. What do electricians actually *do* when they PAT-test an appliance? Is it something that I can't do without special kit? http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/fa...ce-testing.htm http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg236.pdf "In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training ... However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need: the right equipment to do the tests the ability to use this test equipment properly the ability to properly understand the test results" What equipment? What tests? We do not know. We are not told. You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). The most important part is the visual inspection, which you need to know how to do. Using the PAT tester comes right at the end and only if the visual inspection passes, but it's quite rare that an appliance which passes a formal visual inspection goes on to fail on the PAT tester. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. Indeed. I've done the first part of 2377 and most of it is "check for damage and check the fuse". I've been meaning to give a mini session to my colleagues. And with Class II appliances there's not really much else you can do. Class I needs an earth continuity test and an IR test. There are some notes here, started by a friend and then taken over by me, but I haven't finished them. They are also limited in scope to once-off testing, and don't cover periodic testing which is typically performed in workplaces. http://therestartproject.org/wiki/PAT_testing As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. And yet, I know a place (1000's employees) that doesn't have a PAT tech resident. So booking tests is a faff, covers 200 items minimum and costs accordingly. If you are serious about safety, a PAT test of a new Class I appliance (at risk appliance, eg cooking item) should be no more than a phone call away to the local chap who wanders round at a convenient time in the next few days. |
#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Nice PAT test fail
On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply low voltage) and it's IEC lead. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-) As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. yes we did that here. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than hours or days. Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal. |
#36
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote: On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote: You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply low voltage) and it's IEC lead. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-) As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. yes we did that here. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than hours or days. Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal. but the tester (the person) has to carry out a visual test, too. Is the cable damaged; is the cable properly secured at both ends; etc. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
#37
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Nice PAT test fail
In article ,
whisky-dave writes: On Wednesday, 20 April 2016 23:14:50 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote: You can do almost all of a PAT test without anything other than a screwdriver to open the plug (if not molded). How long would you say it would take to test say a bench power (supply low voltage) and it's IEC lead. A couple of mins, plus one more if it's a rewirable plug, and assuming nothing needs fixing to make it pass. There's also the management of PAT testing (record keeping, pass/fail labels, etc), then add that on top, although some PAT testers will do some of that for you, which can be a big time saver if you are doing a lot of items. Other things can vary with the quality of the tester. Better ones will use 25A for the earth continuity test, in which case it's done in a fraction of a second. Others will use 200mA, in which case it takes longer as you need to flex the cable along its length to verify no partial earth connection whilst it's passing 200mA. If you see someone start a PAT test by using a PAT tester, they don't know what they're doing, which is unfortunately very common. well if you got the equipment might as well use it ;-) As has been said, it was intended that a suitably competent member of staff in most companies would be able to be trained to perform PAT testing. yes we did that here. They should complete both parts of C&G 2377 (usually taught on two consective days with the exam at the end). I thought you could do an on-line version that took minutes ather than hours or days. Maybe you can. The training is a day - I think the exam was somewhere between 30 and 60 mins. You could in theory just do the exam if you can find a testing centre which will enter you for it without doing the training. Prerequisite knowledge would be knowing how to wire a plug, and knowing the difference between milliohms and megohms. They don't need to be an electrician. I thought the idea of the Testers (the machines not the user) was to pass or fail by giving a bleep or visual signal. The certification is to make sure you understand the principles and also the legal requirements you need to meet. Some PAT tester vendor training just concentrates on how to use the tester, but that is only a small part of PAT testing, as explained earlier. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
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