I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

TIA

Jim

Jim wrote:
I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to
thinking about my portable air con unit that is for the home and
getting that regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or
not).
Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they
seem to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to
outside to push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time
fills up with water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day
on average) and the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold
as an air con unit but it is not air good as the one with the water
tank so i guess it's more of a room cooler just IMO you understand,
what i need to know is how often should i re-gas the first unit (the
one that collects water) and any idea what the cost would be, or
should i just bin it when it dies and buy another one which seems a
huge waste of money IMO
Maybe you could ask your daddy to re-post that?

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:52:31 +0000, Jim
wrote:

I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

TIA

Jim

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 09/01/16 22:43, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:52:31 +0000, Jim
wrote:

I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

TIA

Jim

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?


mechanical shock and vibration, and corrosion


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:52:31 +0000, Jim
wrote:

I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

TIA

Jim

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

probably because the seals are subject to vibration and a much wider range
of temperatures than found in fridge. Also, seals dry out if the system
isn't used for significnt lengths of time which, judging by many of the
posts, is quite common. My last car, which I kept for 11 years, never
needed regasing - but then I keep the aircon switched on.

--
Please note new email address:

On Saturday, 9 January 2016 22:43:12 UTC, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 20:52:31 +0000, Jim
wrote:

I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

TIA

Jim

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

The reason is that domestic fridges have hermetic compressors and are totally sealed.
Car compressors have a shaft emerging which is driven off the engine. (Called semi-hermetic)
There is invariable a tiny gas leak on shaft seal.
As the system ages, cracks appear in various flexible pipes associated with the system also.

Non-automotive compressors of this type have a refrigerant gas reservoir which offsets this problem somewhat until the reservoir is depleted.

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 22:43:01 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all? Vehicle
aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

Because fridges and freezers are in use all day, every day, so the seals
don't dry out and shrink.

Adrian wrote in :

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 22:43:01 +0000, Graham. wrote:

I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all? Vehicle
aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

Because fridges and freezers are in use all day, every day, so the seals
don't dry out and shrink.


There are no seals in the same way that a car has a seal. The motor is
welded into the the pressurised system.

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

Generally because fridge etc units have the motor integral with the
compressor, so nowhere to leak.

Car compressors tend to be belt driven, and it's that shaft seal which
leaks. And of course the flexible pipes to the heat exchangers because the
engine moves around. Again in a fridge it is usually one rigid unit.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Graham. explained on 09/01/2016 :
I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all?
Vehicle aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

Fridges and freezers are sealed, house, office and car a/c's having
externally driven moving parts using seals. The seals leak, you loose
the gas.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 13:45:48 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Graham. explained on 09/01/2016 :
I would like to know why air con units need regasing at all? Vehicle
aircons seem to need regasing almost as a matter of routine,
but fridges and freezers generally don't. Why?

Fridges and freezers are sealed, house, office and car a/c's having
externally driven moving parts using seals. The seals leak, you loose
the gas.

Still "No Cigar". More accurately, a fridge or freezer avoids the need
for rotary seals around drive shafts. Only static seals being required to
allow the driving energy to be transferred to the compressor
(electricity).

Also, the joint seals in the heat exchanger circuits aren't subjected to
the much higher vibration levels found in a vehicle's AC system so can
use more reliable brazed joints, eliminating the inherent weakness of
flexible joints typically required in a vehicle's AC system.

Compared to AC (car or home/office) fridges and freezers have extremely
modest heat pumping demands and are (relatively) over-engineered to avoid
the need for regassing as a routine maintenance procedure throughout
their service life.

The temperature controlled environment of a fridge or freezer is
extremely well insulated to reduce running costs, unlike the controlled
environments typical of AC systems (energy leaky homes, offices and car
interiors containing energy emitting sources - people and equipment).

--
Johnny B Good

After serious thinking Johnny B Good wrote :
Still "No Cigar". More accurately, a fridge or freezer avoids the need
for rotary seals around drive shafts. Only static seals being required to
allow the driving energy to be transferred to the compressor
(electricity).

Which is pretty much what I said !

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Jim wrote:

what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

Air con units are like fridges and shouldn't need regassing as the motor
is sealed in with the freon. Car systems have the drive force external
to the pump which requires seals around the shaft that can allow leakage.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

what i need to know is how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one
that collects water) and any idea what the cost would be, or should i
just bin it when it dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of
money IMO

Air con units are like fridges and shouldn't need regassing as the motor
is sealed in with the freon. Car systems have the drive force external to
the pump which requires seals around the shaft that can allow leakage.

Whenever my car aircon has needed regassing, it's due to minor leaks in the
pipes and the compression fittings to the heat exchanger etc, not because of
leaks in the compressor. The last time I had it done, I needed a new heat
exchanger (a wiggly pipe with fins, like the normal radiator) which had
corroded because on this car it never got washed clean of winter road salt.

But two regassings (and a new heat exchanger) in 8 years is probably not too
bad. At least the place where I get it done uses a UV-visible dye in the gas
which allows them to trace leaks very easily. They also charge the system
with air (plus dye) first of all, so I'm not paying for new freon until they
know that the system is free of leaks.

In article ,
"NY" writes:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

what i need to know is how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one
that collects water) and any idea what the cost would be, or should i
just bin it when it dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of
money IMO

Air con units are like fridges and shouldn't need regassing as the motor
is sealed in with the freon. Car systems have the drive force external to
the pump which requires seals around the shaft that can allow leakage.

They're not sealed as well as a fridge, due to the need for assembling
them on a production line, the need for flexible hose couplings, etc.

Magnetic shaft couplings for things like water pumps have existed for
very many decades, to avoid the need for shaft seals. I was surprised
to hear that car compressors didn't use them, although maybe they'd be
too big for the shaft power required.

Whenever my car aircon has needed regassing, it's due to minor leaks in the
pipes and the compression fittings to the heat exchanger etc, not because of
leaks in the compressor. The last time I had it done, I needed a new heat
exchanger (a wiggly pipe with fins, like the normal radiator) which had
corroded because on this car it never got washed clean of winter road salt.

It can be pierced by stones through the radiator grill when driving
at speed - that's a common failure.

But two regassings (and a new heat exchanger) in 8 years is probably not too
bad. At least the place where I get it done uses a UV-visible dye in the gas
which allows them to trace leaks very easily. They also charge the system
with air (plus dye) first of all, so I'm not paying for new freon until they
know that the system is free of leaks.

There is a requirement to fix all leaks before refilling with many of
the refrigerant gasses used.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Jim writes:
I saw DerbyBorn's post on air con for his car and it got me to thinking
about my portable air con unit that is for the home and getting that
regassed (sorry don't even know if that is a word or not).

Anyway I have 2 portable air con units both about 8000BTU but they seem
to work in a different way, both have pipes leading out to outside to
push out the hot air but one has a tank that over time fills up with
water and needs to be emptied now and then (once a day on average) and
the other has NO water tank of any kind it was sold as an air con unit
but it is not air good as the one with the water tank so i guess it's
more of a room cooler just IMO you understand, what i need to know is
how often should i re-gas the first unit (the one that collects water)
and any idea what the cost would be, or should i just bin it when it
dies and buy another one which seems a huge waste of money IMO

Some of them evaporate all the water on the condensor (hot element),
and thus blow it out as vapour up the elephant trunk to the outside.
I have a large portable one which works that way. Although it has a
tiny tank, normally nothing makes it into the tank as it's all been
evaporated on the condensor. This actually makes the condensor more
efficient too.

I don't actually use this anymore as I installed a proper split system
10+ years ago. Portable ones which have only an external outlet and
not an external inlet are not efficient, as they are forcing outside
air to be drawn into the house at the same rate they blow air out of
the elephant trunk, so the unit will be half fighting with itself.

Regassing - I don't know. Last time I asked, it was just over £100
to get one regassed at this time of year (and much more in the
summer, although it's often impossible to get anyone out as the
weather starts warming because they all get much more lucrative work
with businesses whose aircon didn't work when switched on for the first
time that year). Much of that was the call-out charge and the time
spent standing around with a vacuum pump on the system to dry it out.
You might be able to do better if you can take it to the company to be
done, and they can leave it on a vacuum pump whilst doing something
else. They're not supposed to regass without finding and fixing the
leak first. If they really can't find a leak, they are supposed to add
a fluorescent dye so the leak can be found next time.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]