The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571
--
Tony Sayer

On 08/09/2015 08:24, tony sayer wrote:


The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

Probably it is.

But it's nothing new really, remember the 3 day week in the 70's?

There a more sophisticated methods of load shedding these days but if we
persist in closing coal fired power stations and not replacing the time
expired nuclear plants, it could become a reality for us.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
On 08/09/2015 08:24, tony sayer wrote:


The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

Probably it is.

But it's nothing new really, remember the 3 day week in the 70's?

But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

There a more sophisticated methods of load shedding these days but if we
persist in closing coal fired power stations and not replacing the time
expired nuclear plants, it could become a reality for us.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Seems to be better to spend vast sums on headline grabbing new projects
like HS2. Rather than invest in making sure a system which has worked well
in the past continues to work well.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/09/15 11:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
On 08/09/2015 08:24, tony sayer wrote:


The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

Probably it is.

But it's nothing new really, remember the 3 day week in the 70's?

But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

well yes, if you mean the generally socialist attitude towards energy
and the attempts to bring it totally under government control.

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government whose
policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political advantage.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 08:29:05 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

With the cheap availability of electronics it seems only sensible to roll out something like economy 7 country-wide. Then consumers will be motivated to spend an extra little on appliances that wait when appropriate for cheaper electricity. Fridges, freezers, washing machines and immersion heaters often can, and perhaps small appliances like battery chargers can play the same game.


NT

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

well yes, if you mean the generally socialist attitude towards energy
and the attempts to bring it totally under government control.

Far far better to leave it all to market forces and natural competition,
as now. Which is why our energy prices are so reasonable.

Which planet are you currently on, Turnip?

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government whose
policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can winkle
out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any of their
money when they will be given it anyway?

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/09/15 13:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

well yes, if you mean the generally socialist attitude towards energy
and the attempts to bring it totally under government control.

Far far better to leave it all to market forces and natural competition,
as now. Which is why our energy prices are so reasonable.

It isn't left to market forces, and thats why its so expensive

What planet are you on Dave?


Which planet are you currently on, Turnip?

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government whose
policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can winkle
out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any of their
money when they will be given it anyway?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment
they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says
'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers,
lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out
of the market


Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social
purposes. As usual it results in a total ****up.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government
whose policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political
advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can
winkle out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any
of their money when they will be given it anyway?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment
they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says
'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Well quite. They want a subsidy. Hardly market forces.

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers,
lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out
of the market

Wot no subsidy?


Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social
purposes. As usual it results in a total ****up.

And the free market works oh so well in S Africa...

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 16:10:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government
whose policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political
advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can
winkle out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any
of their money when they will be given it anyway?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment
they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says
'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Well quite. They want a subsidy. Hardly market forces.

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers,
lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out
of the market

Wot no subsidy?


Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social
purposes. As usual it results in a total ****up.

And the free market works oh so well in S Africa...

Like everything in Africa, its squeezed financially until the pips squeak. So not a very good comparison.


NT

On 08/09/15 16:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government
whose policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political
advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can
winkle out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any
of their money when they will be given it anyway?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment
they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says
'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Well quite. They want a subsidy. Hardly market forces.

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers,
lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out
of the market

Wot no subsidy?


Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social
purposes. As usual it results in a total ****up.

And the free market works oh so well in S Africa...

Well of course it is NOT a free market - it is a nationalised energy
supply company. Ruin by that bastion of socialism... the ANC...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskom


"Eskom is a South African electricity public utility, established in
1923 as the Electricity Supply Commission (ESCOM) by the government of
South Africa in terms of the Electricity Act (1922). It was founded by a
parliamentary act, namely the Electricity Act of 1922, which allowed the
Electricity Control Board to appoint Hendrik Johannes van der Bijl as
the Chairman of the Board.[5] The company was also known by its
Afrikaans name Elektrisiteitsvoorsieningskommissie (EVKOM). The two
acronyms were combined in 1986 and the company is now known as Eskom.
Eskom represents South Africa in the Southern African Power Pool.

The utility is the largest producer of electricity in Africa,[citation
needed] is among the top seven utilities in the world in terms of
generation capacity and among the top nine in terms of sales.

Eskom operates a number of notable power stations, including Kendal
Power Station, and Koeberg nuclear power station in the Cape Province,
the only nuclear power plant in Africa. The company is divided into
Generation, Transmission and Distribution divisions and together Eskom
generates approximately 95% of electricity used in South Africa.

*Due to the South African governments attempted privatisation of Eskom
in the late 1990s, Eskom's requests for budget to build new stations
were denied. President Thabo Mbeki said in December 2007 that this was
an error, and it is now adversely affecting the South African economy.

On December 11, 2014 it was announced that President Jacob Zuma had
assigned Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa to oversee the turnaround of
three state owned companies namely Eskom, the South African Airways, and
the South African Post Office€�, all of which were in dire straits.[25]

On January 15, 2015 Eskom's then CEO Tshediso Matona admitted that
Eskom's policy to "Keep the Lights on" meant that power station
maintenance was neglected for years, and that South Africans will have
to get used to electricity blackouts for the next four to five years*"

So once again we have the lefty brain making stuff up out of thin air to
satisfy his prejudices, when in fact it actually totally contradicts his
position.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 08/09/15 19:35, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 16:10:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where
viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government
whose policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political
advantage.

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can
winkle out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any
of their money when they will be given it anyway?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment
they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says
'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Well quite. They want a subsidy. Hardly market forces.

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers,
lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out
of the market

Wot no subsidy?


Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social
purposes. As usual it results in a total ****up.

And the free market works oh so well in S Africa...

Like everything in Africa, its squeezed financially until the pips squeak. So not a very good comparison.


No, it isn't a fee market, its a nationalised industry


NT



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 11:05:04 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
On 08/09/2015 08:24, tony sayer wrote:


The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

Probably it is.

But it's nothing new really, remember the 3 day week in the 70's?

But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity supplies to three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The public didn't swallow it, that's why the Tories lost the election in 1974, and they still blamed the miners and took it out on them in the 1980's pit closures.

There a more sophisticated methods of load shedding these days but if we
persist in closing coal fired power stations and not replacing the time
expired nuclear plants, it could become a reality for us.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Seems to be better to spend vast sums on headline grabbing new projects
like HS2. Rather than invest in making sure a system which has worked well
in the past continues to work well.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/09/15 08:35, Jaffna Dog wrote:
PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity supplies to
three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The public didn't
swallow it, that's why the Tories lost the election in 1974, and they
still blamed the miners and took it out on them in the 1980's pit
closures.


As an example of how to rewrite history to fit bigotry and prejudice
this has to be one of the finest examples every produced.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Wednesday, 9 September 2015 09:51:13 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/09/15 08:35, Jaffna Dog wrote:
PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity supplies to
three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The public didn't
swallow it, that's why the Tories lost the election in 1974, and they
still blamed the miners and took it out on them in the 1980's pit
closures.


As an example of how to rewrite history to fit bigotry and prejudice
this has to be one of the finest examples every produced.


The unions did not make the decision to restrict supply to a three-day week, Ted Heath did for political reasons, and it backfired. Continuous supply could have been maintained until coal stocks at power stations were exhausted, and then sections of the grid around oil and nuclear plants could have been islanded, and the North Scotland Hydro-Electric run independently from the rest of the Grid.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 10/09/15 08:38, Jaffna Dog wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 September 2015 09:51:13 UTC+1, The Natural
Philosopher wrote:
On 09/09/15 08:35, Jaffna Dog wrote:
PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity
supplies to three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The
public didn't swallow it, that's why the Tories lost the election
in 1974, and they still blamed the miners and took it out on them
in the 1980's pit closures.


As an example of how to rewrite history to fit bigotry and
prejudice this has to be one of the finest examples every
produced.


The unions did not make the decision to restrict supply to a
three-day week, Ted Heath did for political reasons, and it
backfired. Continuous supply could have been maintained until coal
stocks at power stations were exhausted, and then sections of the
grid around oil and nuclear plants could have been islanded, and the
North Scotland Hydro-Electric run independently from the rest of the
Grid.


Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Have you considered a career in professional lying? Law or Marketing
would be perfect, or politics.

-- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your
heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your
hand is in someone else's pocket.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 10/09/15 09:23, Huge wrote:
On 2015-09-10, Jaffna Dog wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 September 2015 09:51:13 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/09/15 08:35, Jaffna Dog wrote:
PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity supplies to
three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The public didn't
swallow it, that's why the Tories lost the election in 1974, and they
still blamed the miners and took it out on them in the 1980's pit
closures.


As an example of how to rewrite history to fit bigotry and prejudice
this has to be one of the finest examples every produced.


The unions did not make the decision to restrict supply to a three-day
week, Ted Heath did for political reasons, and it backfired. Continuous
supply could have been maintained until coal stocks at power stations
were exhausted, and then sections of the grid around oil and nuclear
plants could have been islanded, and the North Scotland Hydro-Electric
run independently from the rest of the Grid.

Leaving huge swathes of the country with no power at all. Congratulations,
that's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read, anywhere. Yes,
Heath was an oleaginous lying ****, but not *that* stupid.


One of the good things about Corbynism is that the Lefty mentality has
gotten all bold and is crawling out from under stones, blinking in the
daylight and making its fatuous beliefs available for all to see.

Carry on chaps. People who dig their own graves are always efficient.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/09/15 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

It's another case of what happens when power is highly imbalanced. In
this case, it rested (unusually) with the state workforce across many
industries.

I don't blame them for taking what they could at the time - but in the
long term it gave enough impetus to the government to produce a lot of
union restricting legislature. About the only industry with any worker
power left is the trains now.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is a bloody disgrace.

There is a vast difference between Casual Labour and Zero Hours
contracts - principally where the latter seeks to "own" the employee
exclusively, but merely pay them for the hours it feels like.

I would love to see that tested in court, if an employee held 2 or more
zero hour contracts simultaneously and was subsequently fired because of it.

Part of the problem now is not that the unions are powerless, but that
most people are too apathetic to join one. What usually happens is the
good people bugger off to a better employer and the weaker (but not
necessarily useless) ones get left holding the ****ty end of the stick.

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/09/15 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head
and tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your
own doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to
your head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to
ransom'. But then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme
right wing.

It's another case of what happens when power is highly imbalanced. In
this case, it rested (unusually) with the state workforce across many
industries.

In which case they'd have been by far the highest paid workers in the
land. At the time of the 3 day week there was the usual pay freeze or
whatever in the public sector - while prices continued to escalate.
Difference today is that with the same sort of freeze on public sector
pay, there isn't the same price inflation.

I don't blame them for taking what they could at the time - but in the
long term it gave enough impetus to the government to produce a lot of
union restricting legislature. About the only industry with any worker
power left is the trains now.

Well quite. The majority (or rather those who could be bothered to vote)
were conned into thinking unions were the problem. Not bothered about the
underlying reasons for dreadful industrial relations. And of course those
industries with dreadful industrial relations went under at the same sort
of time as Thatcher's union legislation came in.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is a bloody disgrace.

There is a vast difference between Casual Labour and Zero Hours
contracts - principally where the latter seeks to "own" the employee
exclusively, but merely pay them for the hours it feels like.

I would love to see that tested in court, if an employee held 2 or more
zero hour contracts simultaneously and was subsequently fired because of it.

Part of the problem now is not that the unions are powerless, but that
most people are too apathetic to join one. What usually happens is the
good people bugger off to a better employer and the weaker (but not
necessarily useless) ones get left holding the ****ty end of the stick.

And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

They were offered and refused a 16.5% pay increase. Holding the country
to ransom is a fair description of attempting to strangle the economy by
closing down the power stations. The subsequent Labour government then
offered them 35% in 74 and a further 35% in 75.
Did you actually live through that period?

Yes and I managed much of the companies limited power availability to
optimise usage.
Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.

You've been swallowing the BBCs exaggerated figures of the numbers. For
many situations zero hours contracts are the only practical way of
giving flexibility to those who want to work part time. The recent court
ruling on holiday pay has protected one of their major employment
rights.

--
bert

On Thursday, 10 September 2015 12:28:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

Just what the national economy wants too


NT

On 10/09/15 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'.

Broadly, yes.

It has always mazed me how the Left can in the same sentence demonise a
corporation that has a de facto monopoly as a profiteering monster, and
praise a Union that has a de facto monopoly as 'all about democracy;'


But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

No, its a tool of the extreme left actually. Projection of this sort is
normal for people suffering from NPD, Dave.



Did you actually live through that period?


If you can call it living. Never been poorer or more miserable.


Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is of course the DIRECT result of minimum wage legislation brought
in by socialists.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 10/09/15 12:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

Which is why the Pro EU labour government decided to let so many in?

You are the master of doublethink.

In fact instead of Lefty****, let's welcome Doublethink Dave.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Thursday, 10 September 2015 10:46:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The term "zero hours contract" is a recent lefty invention.
They've always been there.

On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 11:43:32 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 08:29:05 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

With the cheap availability of electronics it seems only sensible to roll out something like economy 7 country-wide. Then consumers will be motivated to spend an extra little on appliances that wait when appropriate for cheaper electricity. Fridges, freezers, washing machines and immersion heaters often can, and perhaps small appliances like battery chargers can play the same game.


NT

It's called a smart meter.

On 11/09/2015 07:30, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 10 September 2015 10:46:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


The term "zero hours contract" is a recent lefty invention.
They've always been there.


The NHS bank system is and always has been a zero hours contract and the
NHS would struggle without it. Supply teachers are frequently on zero
hours too. Once you take these out of the number its a much smaller number.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to
your head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to
ransom'.

Broadly, yes.

It has always mazed me how the Left can in the same sentence demonise a
corporation that has a de facto monopoly as a profiteering monster, and
praise a Union that has a de facto monopoly as 'all about democracy;'

You've just made that up. But then your right wing pals dislike - at least
on paper - monopolies. Hence the con of giving the consumer 'choice'.
Oh - very few unions are the only one which covers and industry anyway. If
you have even followed the LT dispute.


But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

No, its a tool of the extreme left actually. Projection of this sort is
normal for people suffering from NPD, Dave.



Did you actually live through that period?


If you can call it living. Never been poorer or more miserable.

Quite. And of course you blamed it all on the unions. Wouldn't expect
anything else of you.


Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is of course the DIRECT result of minimum wage legislation brought
in by socialists.

Absolutely. You'd prefer they were paid even less. You really are one of
the most selfish people I've ever come across.

--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/09/15 12:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

Which is why the Pro EU labour government decided to let so many in?

Is that why the numbers have increased under this government? But perhaps
you consider it 'Lefty****' too. And it probably is relative to your
views.

You are the master of doublethink.

In fact instead of Lefty****, let's welcome Doublethink Dave.

--
*Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On 10/09/15 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and
tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own
doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your
head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But
then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

It's another case of what happens when power is highly imbalanced. In
this case, it rested (unusually) with the state workforce across many
industries.

I don't blame them for taking what they could at the time - but in the
long term it gave enough impetus to the government to produce a lot of
union restricting legislature. About the only industry with any worker
power left is the trains now.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is a bloody disgrace.

There is a vast difference between Casual Labour and Zero Hours
contracts - principally where the latter seeks to "own" the employee
exclusively, but merely pay them for the hours it feels like.

No ;longer permitted
I would love to see that tested in court, if an employee held 2 or more
zero hour contracts simultaneously and was subsequently fired because
of it.

It has been and was sorted
Part of the problem now is not that the unions are powerless,
That was part of the solution
but that most people are too apathetic to join one. What usually
happens is the good people bugger off to a better employer and the
weaker (but not necessarily useless) ones get left holding the ****ty
end of the stick.

--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/09/15 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head
and tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your
own doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to
your head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to
ransom'. But then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme
right wing.

It's another case of what happens when power is highly imbalanced. In
this case, it rested (unusually) with the state workforce across many
industries.

In which case they'd have been by far the highest paid workers in the
land. At the time of the 3 day week there was the usual pay freeze or
whatever in the public sector - while prices continued to escalate.
Difference today is that with the same sort of freeze on public sector
pay, there isn't the same price inflation.

I don't blame them for taking what they could at the time - but in the
long term it gave enough impetus to the government to produce a lot of
union restricting legislature. About the only industry with any worker
power left is the trains now.

Well quite. The majority (or rather those who could be bothered to vote)
were conned into thinking unions were the problem. Not bothered about the
underlying reasons for dreadful industrial relations. And of course those
industries with dreadful industrial relations went under at the same sort
of time as Thatcher's union legislation came in.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


Which is a bloody disgrace.

There is a vast difference between Casual Labour and Zero Hours
contracts - principally where the latter seeks to "own" the employee
exclusively, but merely pay them for the hours it feels like.

I would love to see that tested in court, if an employee held 2 or more
zero hour contracts simultaneously and was subsequently fired because of it.

Part of the problem now is not that the unions are powerless, but that
most people are too apathetic to join one. What usually happens is the
good people bugger off to a better employer and the weaker (but not
necessarily useless) ones get left holding the ****ty end of the stick.

And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

Well it was Labour who opened the door to these large number of
immigrants.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/09/15 12:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of
any sort is just what big business wants.

Which is why the Pro EU labour government decided to let so many in?

Is that why the numbers have increased under this government? But perhaps
you consider it 'Lefty****' too. And it probably is relative to your
views.

The numbers are increasing because Labour enshrined the open door in EU
treaties. Hence the argument that the only way to control the flow is to
leave the EU.
You are the master of doublethink.

In fact instead of Lefty****, let's welcome Doublethink Dave.


--
bert

In article . com,
lid writes
On 11/09/2015 07:30, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 10 September 2015 10:46:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours
contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.


The term "zero hours contract" is a recent lefty invention.
They've always been there.


The NHS bank system is and always has been a zero hours contract and
the NHS would struggle without it. Supply teachers are frequently on
zero hours too. Once you take these out of the number its a much
smaller number.
Take out also th4 exaggeration caused by the fact that many people have
more than one zero hours contracts but these all get counted in the
figures quoted by the biassed BBC.
--
bert

In article ,
harry writes
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 11:43:32 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 08:29:05 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

With the cheap availability of electronics it seems only sensible to
roll out something like economy 7 country-wide. Then consumers will be
motivated to spend an extra little on appliances that wait when
appropriate for cheaper electricity. Fridges, freezers, washing
machines and immersion heaters often can, and perhaps small appliances
like battery chargers can play the same game.


NT

It's called a smart meter.
It's called a thermostat
--
bert

On Friday, 11 September 2015 23:54:14 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
harry writes
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 11:43:32 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 September 2015 08:29:05 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:

The shape of things to come to the UK?....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176571

With the cheap availability of electronics it seems only sensible to
roll out something like economy 7 country-wide. Then consumers will be
motivated to spend an extra little on appliances that wait when
appropriate for cheaper electricity. Fridges, freezers, washing
machines and immersion heaters often can, and perhaps small appliances
like battery chargers can play the same game.

It's called a smart meter.

It's called a thermostat

obviously it's neither


NT