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#1
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s -
which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. |
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#2
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
Adrian wrote:
We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s - which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. The DPC line is going to be flexible anyway. I'd strip the external render, then saw/drill out the cracked mortar joints and refill before re re-rendering |
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#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On 04/07/15 09:43, Capitol wrote:
Adrian wrote: We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s - which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. The DPC line is going to be flexible anyway. I'd strip the external render, then saw/drill out the cracked mortar joints and refill before re re-rendering And if the cracks look like they are through the entire wall the OP could add some resin stitches across the crack to stabilise it. |
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#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Saturday, 4 July 2015 09:33:13 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s - which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. a picture sure would help NT |
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#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 13:42:27 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
a picture sure would help Yep, today. |
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#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 08:35:08 +0000, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 13:42:27 -0700, tabbypurr wrote: a picture sure would help Yep, today. And here we go... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ghe5d8m88...A49lNBqyIEk1ha 9 pics, each about 6Mb, full-off-camera resolution. 0257 is the only external pic - there's three full 200l water butts in front of much of the wall. I've been out there and taken all the plaster off the inside. The bottom is indeed the DPC level. The visible top cracking was following a joint between plaster and plasterboard, and did more-or-less follow the level of the timber meeting the blockwork. Opinions and thoughts welcomed! My gut feel is that it's not as bad as I thought, and that raking as much loose as possible out, followed by basically just re-pointing, should be as good as I really need. The wall was somewhat less than fantastically built in the first place - it's not altogether vertical, leaning outwards in a Pisa-like fashion. |
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#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sunday, 5 July 2015 13:40:59 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 08:35:08 +0000, Adrian wrote: On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 13:42:27 -0700, tabbypurr wrote: a picture sure would help Yep, today. And here we go... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ghe5d8m88...A49lNBqyIEk1ha Some pictures explain it all. Some explain nothing. NT |
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#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 08:33:09 +0000, Adrian wrote:
We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s - which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. You could consider bracing the wall by using metal brackets where the wall goes round the corner. This is in addition to the rake and repoint. You could also check that the side of the doorframe is screwed into the block wall to provide support. Single block walls are not the most stable and rely on being tied into stronger things to stop them wobbling :-) If there is just a short run of wall which is taller than it is wide and all that is keeping it vertical is prayer and the mortar bond to the corner then it may well wobble a bit when disturbed. If you are also lining the wall, a few extra battens screwed to the wall in that area will also help stabilise things. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
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#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 08:33:09 +0000, Adrian wrote:
We've got an outbuilding - block-built, single-leaf, '70s or early '80s - which we're doing up at the moment. It's recently had the old, sloping and rough, concrete floor broken up and a new one poured. Doing that, though, one part of wall has developed some serious-looking cracks. It's not a long section, maybe 1.5m, between door and corner. The door frame goes all the way up to a heavy wooden lintel which runs most of the length of that side of the building - so there's no tie between this bit of wall and the rest of that side, just to the corner. The cracking's showing in the internal plaster, top and bottom, and the external render, bottom - the wood is visible externally, so the render ends where the cracking would show. The bottom line follows the DPC. The top line follows the top of the blockwork. The guys who were breaking the concrete up reckoned they could see the wall moving, but it "feels" solid. There's no cracking within plaster or render of the main body of the wall. What's the best way to deal with this? Seems there's three basic routes... * Ignore. It'll be fine... * Remove as much of the old mortar as possible and repoint. Will it being the DPC line make it more difficult? * Take the wall down and rebuild it, supporting the timber (and, obviously, the roof) in the process. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant. The outside of the wall's going to get re-rendered anyway, and the inside is going to be lined. Just to add - when we built The Mother of All Sheds I was concerned that the roof might get lifted by the wind in a storm. So we tied the wall plate (wood along the top of the wall on which the rafters rest) to the wall with straps. [From your photographs I thing the wood you are calling a lintel is actually a wall plate.] See: http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...er%20of%20all% 20Sheds/20150705_181942.jpg http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...er%20of%20all% 20Sheds/20150705_181917.jpg This is explained in more detail in http://www.selfbuildselfhelp.com/Adv...WallPlate1.htm This also ties the blockwork to the roof structure and helps to keep the wall in place and vertical. From your pictures I couldn't see any sign that the wall plate was tied to the wall. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
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#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 17:51:00 +0000, David wrote:
So we tied the wall plate (wood along the top of the wall on which the rafters rest) to the wall with straps. That makes sense. [From your photographs I thing the wood you are calling a lintel is actually a wall plate.] Probably. But a bloody great big heavy one... From your pictures I couldn't see any sign that the wall plate was tied to the wall. No, it seems to be that nice Mr Isaac Newton alone who's keeping it there. |
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#11
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 17:14:46 +0000, David wrote:
You could consider bracing the wall by using metal brackets where the wall goes round the corner. Internally, the thicker section in the corner is somewhat less than resoundingly solid. Externally, I could certainly cope with a couple of big iron brackets. This is in addition to the rake and repoint. You could also check that the side of the doorframe is screwed into the block wall to provide support. It definitely is. The door and frame have only been there a couple of months. The old door frame was... less so. Much less so... In fact, it was mostly just leaning in place. Single block walls are not the most stable and rely on being tied into stronger things to stop them wobbling :-) If there is just a short run of wall which is taller than it is wide and all that is keeping it vertical is prayer and the mortar bond to the corner then it may well wobble a bit when disturbed. If you are also lining the wall, a few extra battens screwed to the wall in that area will also help stabilise things. Indeed. Thanks. My mind is considerably more at rest about the whole thing than it was. |
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#12
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 18:07:20 +0000, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 17:51:00 +0000, David wrote: So we tied the wall plate (wood along the top of the wall on which the rafters rest) to the wall with straps. That makes sense. [From your photographs I thing the wood you are calling a lintel is actually a wall plate.] Probably. But a bloody great big heavy one... From your pictures I couldn't see any sign that the wall plate was tied to the wall. No, it seems to be that nice Mr Isaac Newton alone who's keeping it there. I would suggest investigating galvanised wall straps - cheap as chips from your local builders' merchant and can give a degree of reassurance. Your main issue would be fixing them, as they hook over the wall plate and are usually fitted before the roof goes on. However hooking them over the top then screwing into the side of the wall plate should be a vast improvement anyway. Looking at your pictures makes me feel that my shed roof is over engineered. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
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#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 18:20:51 +0000, David wrote:
I would suggest investigating galvanised wall straps - cheap as chips from your local builders' merchant and can give a degree of reassurance. This kinda thing? http://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-r...trap-bend-500- x-100mm-pack-of-5/85398 Your main issue would be fixing them, as they hook over the wall plate and are usually fitted before the roof goes on. However hooking them over the top then screwing into the side of the wall plate should be a vast improvement anyway. I'm sure there'll be a way. Looking at your pictures makes me feel that my shed roof is over engineered. grin There is an alternative explanation... |
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#14
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
Opinions and thoughts welcomed! My gut feel is that it's not as bad as I thought, and that raking as much loose as possible out, followed by basically just re-pointing, should be as good as I really need. Can't do any harm. I'd spray with dilute pva before re-pointing |
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#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Dealing with a badly cracked wall
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 18:26:37 +0000, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2015 18:20:51 +0000, David wrote: I would suggest investigating galvanised wall straps - cheap as chips from your local builders' merchant and can give a degree of reassurance. This kinda thing? http://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-r...trap-bend-500- x-100mm-pack-of-5/85398 Your main issue would be fixing them, as they hook over the wall plate and are usually fitted before the roof goes on. However hooking them over the top then screwing into the side of the wall plate should be a vast improvement anyway. I'm sure there'll be a way. Looking at your pictures makes me feel that my shed roof is over engineered. grin There is an alternative explanation... Perhaps http://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-h...t-straps-1200- x-150mm-pack-of-10/74769 -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
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