Bob wrote:
....

Overall, sounds about right -- I don't know the exact wording of the
rules, but in essence they are prohibited from adding more Freon to a
system that is leaking. The "go ahead if have a down payment" is a
tactic I've not run into (but then again, I've not replaced a unit in 15
years, either).

I'd get second opinions/bids on the replacement, including asking about
the sizing, ductwork, etc. It isn't necessarily a problem w/ the
inside/outside units, but it quite possible the previous replacement
"went cheap" causing that. It, of course, would be possible to find out
how well they're matched by looking up each, but what's the point? You
need, in all likelihood at that age, a new system and it's pretty much a
cheapout way to do it w/o replacing both.

As for brands, there are many quality units and as has been said here
more often than possible to count, the installation is at least as
critical as the unit itself. I would avoid the low-end units like
Goodman, etc., however, as there is a reason they are what they are and
CR reliability data indicates they are at the bottom of the heap.

--

But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he would put Freon in for us.

That is B/S, call out another company.



--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com
"Bob" wrote in message ...
I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb
about AC units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the
unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably
well, but have had several service calls in the last four or five
years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was
doing but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had
several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and
he doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he
said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other
in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system
to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch
return duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said
it was not legal. He said he and the company he works for could
loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he
would put Freon in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer,
which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we
would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not.
That is their business policy, which they are entitled to, but as a
consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new
return duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at
$7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same
items but only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to $8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of
the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I
certainly wasn't going to commit to spending that much money without
getting some knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I was
charged $149 for the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I
could so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx

But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he would put Freon in for us.

That is B/S, call out another company.


--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com

Exactly.

First off, if it was "illegal to put Freon in" and they're offering to
do the illegal if you commit to having them replace the whole unit then
you can't trust them since they are offering to break the law if you do
further business with them.

Secondly, it is not "illegal to put Freon in" as they claimed. It is
perfectly legal for them to locate and repair the leak in the system and
then put Freon in the system. It is also legal for them to put Freon in
without repairing the leak if the leak is very small, so the system only
looses a couple percent of the charge per year (there are specific EPA
figures for this).

So the company / tech in question is unquestionably lying about the
Freon issue and can't be trusted regarding the other claims about the
system.

Pete C.

I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb
about AC units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the
unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably
well, but have had several service calls in the last four or five
years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was
doing but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had
several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and
he doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he
said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other
in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system
to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch
return duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said
it was not legal. He said he and the company he works for could
loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he
would put Freon in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer,
which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we
would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not.
That is their business policy, which they are entitled to, but as a
consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new
return duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at
$7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same
items but only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to $8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of
the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I
certainly wasn't going to commit to spending that much money without
getting some knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I was
charged $149 for the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I
could so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx

"Bob" wrote in message
...
: I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb
: about AC units and really need some good advice.

CY: There is a small chance you'll get some good advice on this
list. Very small.
:
: Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found
the
: unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
: built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked
reasonably
: well, but have had several service calls in the last four or
five
: years.

CY: Ok, so it's had some maint. And so far, not too bad.
:
: We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what
he was
: doing but he bad-mouthed everything about the system.

CY: Any tech who bad mouths, needs to be escorted off the
property.

He had
: several issues:
: - Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit
and
: he doesn't know if they are matched.

CY: Not very experienced fellow, eh?

: - The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and
he
: said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The
other
: in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.

CY: Based on what?

: - There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the
system
: to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

CY: Did he check it with his beeper? Check superheat?

:
: His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20
inch
: return duct from the hall filter.

CY: Reaching for your wallet, eh?

:
: He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he
said
: it was not legal. He said he and the company he works for
could
: loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new
unit, he
: would put Freon in for us.
: I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose
his
: license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His
answer,
: which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down,
that we
: would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might
not.

CY: Reaching for your wallet, again? Incidentally, when I took my
EPA test it was legal to add freon to any system less than 50
pound freon capacity. After two grand, you really think he's
gonna come back?


: That is their business policy, which they are entitled to, but
as a
: consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

CY: Listen to your instincts about this guy.

:
: As far as prices go:
: A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new
: return duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced
at
: $7,400.
:
: A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the
same
: items but only had a two year labor and five year parts
warranty.
:
: A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to
$8,000.
:
: Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude
of
: the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy.
I
: certainly wasn't going to commit to spending that much money
without
: getting some knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I
was
: charged $149 for the one hour service call and he left.

CY: Try a different service company.

:
: Here are my questions:
: - Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?

CY: I really doubt it.

: - Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?

CY: Who can tell?

: - If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
: - Were his prices reasonable?

CY: I'd suggest talk with your friends and neighbors, see who
they call out.

:
: Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much
as I
: could so you guys could give a better opinion.

CY: Sounds like the guy was reaching for your wallet for quick
cash.

:
: Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

CY: You're welcome.
:
: Bob-tx
:
:
:

"Bob" wrote in message
...
I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb
about AC units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the
unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably
well, but have had several service calls in the last four or five
years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he
was doing but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had
several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and
he doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he
said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other
in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the
system to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch
return duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he
said it was not legal. He said he and the company he works for
could loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new
unit, he would put Freon in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer,
which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that
we would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might
not. That is their business policy, which they are entitled to,
but as a consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new
return duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at
$7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same
items but only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to
$8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of
the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I
certainly wasn't going to commit to spending that much money
without getting some knowledgeable opinions and some other bids.
So, I was charged $149 for the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I
could so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx

I realized after I sent this, that I didn't mention the unit size.
It is four ton.

Also, we have had another bid on a Trane unit. This service man
said the 16 inch duct was quite sufficient. Other than that, about
the same equipment except this is an R22 Freon while the first bid
was on a unit with 410A Freon. The second bidder said they have had
a lot of problems with the 410A units due to the higher pressure.

So, I'm a little more confused than I was. I have another company
coming out this afternoon. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again, Bob-tx

"Bob" wrote in message
...
I realized after I sent this, that I didn't mention the unit size. It is
four ton.

Also, we have had another bid on a Trane unit. This service man said the
16 inch duct was quite sufficient. Other than that, about the same
equipment except this is an R22 Freon while the first bid was on a unit
with 410A Freon. The second bidder said they have had a lot of problems
with the 410A units due to the higher pressure.

So, I'm a little more confused than I was. I have another company coming
out this afternoon. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again, Bob-tx


I just had a Trane heatpump installed this winter to replace a 20 year old
system. I went with the 22 instead of the 401A system. My thinking is the
same, the higher presssuer could cause more problems. They are phasing out
the 22 systems and may not be making any more of them, not sure. In a few
years the 22 gas is going to stop being made just as the r12 for the cars
have been. Think I would still like to have the proven 22 instead of the
newer 401. I may be wrong about that but just my feelings.

He should have been able to add some gas to your system. Think they are
giving you a bunch of BS. It may be all you need is gas for another 5 to 10
years. I sure would not do business with a company that would not gas a
system and then want a down payment for a new system and then offer to gas
the system.

"Bob" wrote in message
...
I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb about AC
units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the unit was
frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house built; it's in its
eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably well, but have had several
service calls in the last four or five years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was doing
but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and he
doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he said it
should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other in the master
bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system to
loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch return
duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said it was
not legal. He said he and the company he works for could loose their
license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he would put Freon
in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer, which I
believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we would go ahead
and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not. That is their business
policy, which they are entitled to, but as a consumer, it just struck me
wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new return
duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at $7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same items but
only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to $8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of the
company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I certainly
wasn't going to commit to spending that much money without getting some
knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I was charged $149 for
the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I could
so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx




1 Re-claim unit charge ( remove refrigerant )

2 Charge system to 150 psi ( 1000 kPa ) with dry nitrogen and leak test

3 Seal leak

4 Evacuate system to 500 microns for five hours and break vacuum with dry
nitrogen

5 Evacuate system to 300 microns and break vacuum with dry nitrogen

6 Evacuate system to 300 microns and charge unit ( replace refrigerant
charge )

7 The supply and return air ducts would have been correctly sized by the
original installer.

Bob wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
...


Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the
unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably
well, but have had several service calls in the last four or five
years.

We had a service man out here today. He had several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and
he doesn't know if they are matched. (He ought know, or find out!)
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he
said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches.

For a 4-Ton system I would go for the larger Air Return.

Air Filter Rack Sizing:
For efficient operation - Gross Return Air filter grille area: 200-sq.
ins. or more per ton, is required.
Keep air velocities through the filter(s) as low as possible. Filter
Grille(s) 350-FPM.

You probably need to eliminate the too small a furnace filter, & maybe
setup two Return Air Filter Racks to get the proper FPM velocity through
the Return Air Filter(s).

ACCA Manual D specifies a maximum Return grille velocity of less than
500 ft per minute, 350-FPM is better,
and "a maximum supply outlet of less than 700 ft per minute, most use
500 or 600-FPM."
Filter mfg'ers should print the free air area of their clean filter on
the edge of the filter along with the pressure drop data.
The wrong kind of filters' as they load, can drop airflow below required
levels!

The other
in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the
system to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch
return duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he
said it was not legal. He said he and the company he works for
could loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new
unit, he would put Freon in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer,
which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that
we would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might
not. That is their business policy, which they are entitled to,
but as a consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new
return duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at
$7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same
items but only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to
$8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of
the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I
certainly wasn't going to commit to spending that much money
without getting some knowledgeable opinions and some other bids.
So, I was charged $149 for the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I
could so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give. Bob-tx


I realized after I sent this, that I didn't mention the unit size.
It is four ton.

Also, we have had another bid on a Trane unit. This service man
said the 16 inch duct was quite sufficient. Other than that, about
the same equipment except this is an R22 Freon while the first bid
was on a unit with 410A Freon. The second bidder said they have had
a lot of problems with the 410A units due to the higher pressure.

So, I'm a little more confused than I was. I have another company
coming out this afternoon. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again, Bob-tx


Before doing anything, have a manual J heat-gain heat-loss done so you
can size the hat & air equipment to the loads.
A 3-Ton AC might do the job, then the 16" Return would be adequate to
eliminate the duct retro expenses!
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

- udarrell

--
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT

http://www.udarrell.com/

http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
(My Airconditioning Links, Hunting Shooting, Angus Cattle, etc.)

http://www.udarrell.com/principled_a...ju stice.html

http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html

http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html

http://www.antiwar.com/ ***

Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!

"Bob" wrote in message
...
I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb about AC
units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the unit was
frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house built; it's in its
eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably well, but have had several
service calls in the last four or five years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was doing
but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and he
doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he said it
should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other in the master
bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system to
loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch return
duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said it was
not legal. He said he and the company he works for could loose their
license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he would put Freon
in for us.
I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer, which I
believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we would go ahead
and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not. That is their business
policy, which they are entitled to, but as a consumer, it just struck me
wrong somehow.

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new return
duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at $7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same items but
only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to $8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of the
company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I certainly
wasn't going to commit to spending that much money without getting some
knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I was charged $149 for
the one hour service call and he left.

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I could
so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx




MICRON ( Hg Mercury )

Atmospheric pressure is 101325 Pa ( 14.6959 psi ) and can support
a 760.002 mm ( 29.9213 inch ) coluum of Mercury ( Hg )
1 mm Hg = 133.322 Pa ( pressure )
0.001 mm = 1 Micron = 0.1333 Pa ( pressure ) 300 Microns = 40 Pa
Therefore 40 Pa of pressure remain in the system at completion of the
evacuation

Leak Test

There are many forms of leak testing

1 Liquid soap solution
2 Ultrasonic
3 Electronic
4 Ultra violet dye
5 Oil additives
6 Halide torch
7 Etc

Have a nice DAY

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:46:34 -0600, "Bob"
wrote:


I realized after I sent this, that I didn't mention the unit size.
It is four ton.

Also, we have had another bid on a Trane unit. This service man
said the 16 inch duct was quite sufficient. Other than that, about
the same equipment except this is an R22 Freon while the first bid
was on a unit with 410A Freon. The second bidder said they have had
a lot of problems with the 410A units due to the higher pressure.

So, I'm a little more confused than I was. I have another company
coming out this afternoon. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again, Bob-tx

I hope you greated the other contractors with your original set of
questions, Please fix my AC, instead of going straight to What will it
cost to replace it.

If you don't ask the first question, you'll never get the benefit of
their knowledge, and yuou'll never find out how much it is to fix it.

P&M

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:30:30 -0600, "Bob"
wrote:


Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of
the company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy.

Most liars and cheats are nice guys. Would they be able to cheat you
if they acted like Louis, the dispatcher in Taxi?

I'm serious.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:30:30 -0600, "Bob"
wrote:

I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb
about AC units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the
unit was frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house
built; it's in its eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably
well, but have had several service calls in the last four or five
years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was
doing but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had

I hate that style. It really turns me off.

several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and
he doesn't know if they are matched.

He may not have an encylopedic memory or memorize all the specs for
all brands, butthat

- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he
said it should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other
in the master bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system
to loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

Not surprising.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch
return duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said
it was not legal.

Why not? If he's going to make a big claim like that, he ought to
have a good reason.

Because it's leaking? So find the leak.

He said he and the company he works for could
loose their license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he
would put Freon in for us.

For 2000 dollars, I'll come there and put freon in it. What city do
you live in?

I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer,
which I believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we
would go ahead and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not.
That is their business policy, which they are entitled to,

Not the lying part, they're not entitled to.

but as a
consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As an honest person, it's wrong to refuse to fill up something because
it's illegal and then fill it up if you put 2000 dollars down on a new
one. Is there an exception for that?

"Bob" wrote in message
...
I know a little bit about a lot of things, but I drop dead dumb about AC
units and really need some good advice.

Last night our central AC/heat pump quit cooling and I found the unit was
frozen. The unit was installed when we had the house built; it's in its
eleventh year. Has generally worked reasonably well, but have had several
service calls in the last four or five years.

We had a service man out here today. He seemed to know what he was doing
but he bad-mouthed everything about the system. He had several issues:
- Inside air handler is not the same brand as the outside unit and he
doesn't know if they are matched.
- The return air ducts are not big enough, one is 16 inches and he said it
should be at least 18 and preferably 20 inches. The other in the master
bedroom is 9 inches and he said that was okay.
- There is a Freon leak in the inside unit, which caused the system to
loose Freon which caused the freezing problem.

His recommendation was to replace both units and install a 20 inch return
duct from the hall filter.

He would not put Freon in our unit so it would cool because he said it was
not legal. He said he and the company he works for could loose their
license. But, if I'd give $2,000 down on a new unit, he would put Freon
in for us.

???????????????? SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Report him to the state attorney
general's office!

I asked if was not legal to put in Freon and he could loose his
license, why would he do it if I gave him money down. His answer, which I
believe is true was that by giving him $2,000 down, that we would go ahead
and put in the new unit. Otherwise, we might not. That is their business
policy, which they are entitled to, but as a consumer, it just struck me
wrong somehow.


Business policy is not law!

As far as prices go:
A Lennox system with ten year parts and labor warranty, the new return
duct, a new thermostat and four heat strips was priced at $7,400.

A Merit, a brand I never heard of, was $500 cheaper for the same items but
only had a two year labor and five year parts warranty.

A Maytag with a twelve / twelve warranty would run close to $8,000.

Here is what I decided. I somehow didn't care for the attitude of the
company, although the serviceman was a heck of a nice guy. I certainly
wasn't going to commit to spending that much money without getting some
knowledgeable opinions and some other bids. So, I was charged $149 for
the one hour service call and he left.


Teh same thing just happened to my daughter. They charged teh FREON system
and only charged $90! You got ripped off by a "heck of a nice guy." All
part of the scam!

Here are my questions:
- Is needing all these items replaced seem reasonable?
- Is his explanation of what is wrong sound reasonable?
- If I go ahead and get a new unit, what brands are best?
- Were his prices reasonable?


Go somewhere else. The fact that you needed several service calls in the
last 4 or 5 years shows you need a new unit. GO SHOPPING! Ask around!

Sorry this is so long, but I felt I needed to explain as much as I could
so you guys could give a better opinion.

Thanks in advance for reading and any advice you can give.

Bob-tx

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:31:34 -0500, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:




Go somewhere else. The fact that you needed several service calls in the
last 4 or 5 years shows you need a new unit.

I'd like to know the details of the problems and the service rendered,
and the charges. If he had hired the same guy he posted about, or
someone like him, to do these repairs, it might have only been one
problem never fixed, or made worse.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:46:55 -0400, mm
wrote:


but as a
consumer, it just struck me wrong somehow.

As an honest person, it's wrong to refuse to fill up something because
it's illegal and then fill it up if you put 2000 dollars down on a new
one. Is there an exception for that?

By which I meant, There might be an exceptino to that, but I don't
think this was it.

He was willing to fill it up now so you'd be comfortable and not call
or hire someone else, who might find the leak and fill it up.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:31:34 -0500, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:




Go somewhere else. The fact that you needed several service calls in the
last 4 or 5 years shows you need a new unit.

I'd like to know the details of the problems and the service rendered,
and the charges. If he had hired the same guy he posted about, or
someone like him, to do these repairs, it might have only been one
problem never fixed, or made worse.

True. Same repair by same guy is very suspicious. Same repair by many
different guys may mean a design flaw. etc. etc. etc.