It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and post
on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews arrived.

--
Adam

On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

Maybe but:

" ... ambulance crews said the 999 call was not made until 14:08."

"Crews from the West Midlands Ambulance Service arrived on the
scene at
14:35 ..."

27 minutes for the ambulance(s) to arrive. Nearly half an hour of
selfies... But isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 04/06/2015 19:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

Maybe but:

" ... ambulance crews said the 999 call was not made until 14:08."

"Crews from the West Midlands Ambulance Service arrived on the
scene at
14:35 ..."

27 minutes for the ambulance(s) to arrive. Nearly half an hour of
selfies... But isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

It certainly is. 8 mins for a Cat A (immediately life threatening) call
- assuming they knew it was one.

En el artículo o.uk,
Dave Liquorice escribió:

isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

Have you ever been to Alton Towers? It's not exactly urban.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 20:50:37 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

Have you ever been to Alton Towers? It's not exactly urban.

It's a damn site nearer manned emergency services than we are. I
should imagine that Ashbourne, Uttoxter, Cheadle have small manned
ambulance and fire stations. Stoke-on-Trent/Newcastle-under-Lyme is
only 12 miles away, those places will have all the toys.

Nearest, small, manned stations to us are over twenty miles away, 30+
to big stations. But when the roads are closed, as happens for a few
days every winter, getting in by road is just not possible or if it
is it'll on roads "passable with care by a 4x4 on winter tyres" and
take hours.

The NWAS tried to take away the old ambulance on CQC grounds until
the community pointed out that even in the summer in good weather the
average response time for an external ambulance was about 50 mins. We
now have one of the very few, if not the only, retained Ambulance in
the country. Paid for by NWAS and staffed by volunteers trained by
NWAS to Emergency Medical Technician 1. Which I think means they
should be able to keep you alive until the Dr/Paramedic arrives in a
GNAS helicopter. One of which is based just a few minutes flying time
away. But remember all the Air Ambulance Services are charities, not
part of the regional ambulance service or paid for by the regional
ambulance service or central government.

--
Cheers
Dave.

En el artículo o.uk,
Dave Liquorice escribió:

It's a damn site nearer manned emergency services than we are. I
should imagine that Ashbourne, Uttoxter, Cheadle have small manned
ambulance and fire stations. Stoke-on-Trent/Newcastle-under-Lyme is
only 12 miles away, those places will have all the toys.

1) the roads to Alton Towers are narrow and winding and will have been
full of cars containing people going to the park

2) they flew in an air ambulance. More than one, I think

3) once they get to the park, they have to navigate the park itself,
never mind the crowds, to get to the ride where the accident happened

27 minutes doesn't seem that bad to me, considering.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Fri, 5 Jun 2015 00:36:58 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

It's a damn site nearer manned emergency services than we are. I
should imagine that Ashbourne, Uttoxter, Cheadle have small manned
ambulance and fire stations. Stoke-on-Trent/Newcastle-under-Lyme
is
only 12 miles away, those places will have all the toys.

1) the roads to Alton Towers are narrow and winding and will have been
full of cars containing people going to the park

The roads into here are not much different. Full of people? Early
afternnon, Thursday, term time, middle of exam period?

2) they flew in an air ambulance. More than one, I think

But presumably not until the Ambulance Service had made their first
assesement?

3) once they get to the park, they have to navigate the park itself,
never mind the crowds, to get to the ride where the accident happened

27 minutes doesn't seem that bad to me, considering.

I suspect the clock would have stopped when the ambulance called in
to say they had arrived at the main gate. Not when they arrived at
the incident.

Negociating the park should be trivial, designated senior park staff
meet the ambulance and escourt them along a marshalled and
pre-planned route to the incident. All page one stuff of the H&S
handbook...

Crowds? Early afternoon, etc etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thursday, 4 June 2015 23:58:06 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 20:50:37 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

Have you ever been to Alton Towers? It's not exactly urban.

It's a damn site nearer manned emergency services than we are. I
should imagine that Ashbourne, Uttoxter, Cheadle have small manned
ambulance and fire stations. Stoke-on-Trent/Newcastle-under-Lyme is
only 12 miles away, those places will have all the toys.

I wonder why Alton Towers had no toys. But that makes you suppose a 12 mile hike into rural England from deepest Urbanity is a jet ride?

Been reading the newspapers again have you?

Clue By Four: Not only Murky dick uses the worst form of Journalism. The first thing they all want from their readers is the ability to forget you are reading ****.

Maybe they should have used an air ambulance, but I wonder if there are
nearby places to land it?
I don't know the lie of the land there but the delay could well have been
due to traffic going to the theme park in any case.
To me, an organisation of the size of Alton should have at least a
paramedic of its own on site, surely?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

Maybe but:

" ... ambulance crews said the 999 call was not made until 14:08."

"Crews from the West Midlands Ambulance Service arrived on the
scene at
14:35 ..."

27 minutes for the ambulance(s) to arrive. Nearly half an hour of
selfies... But isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 5 Jun 2015 09:52:43 +0100, "Brian-Gaff" wrote:

Maybe they should have used an air ambulance, but I wonder if there are
nearby places to land it?
I don't know the lie of the land there but the delay could well have been
due to traffic going to the theme park in any case.
To me, an organisation of the size of Alton should ....

Apparantly there are a significant number of people who go to Alton, Hampshire and then
ask the way to Alton Towers.



--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:11:16 +0100, Paul Herber wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jun 2015 09:52:43 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
wrote:

Maybe they should have used an air ambulance, but I wonder if there are
nearby places to land it?
I don't know the lie of the land there but the delay could well have
been
due to traffic going to the theme park in any case.
To me, an organisation of the size of Alton should ....

Apparantly there are a significant number of people who go to Alton,
Hampshire and then ask the way to Alton Towers.

Can't be as bad as the PR person in Kent County Council (Tourism) who
published the leaflet telling people that Leeds Castle was in Yorkshire.
Although it seems to happen more in reverse.

On 05/06/15 10:18, Bob Eager wrote:

Can't be as bad as the PR person in Kent County Council (Tourism) who
published the leaflet telling people that Leeds Castle was in Yorkshire.
Although it seems to happen more in reverse.


Indeed

Leeds in Kent is a village with a population of about 2,500.

And you can even park your car and come back to find it still has wheels.

On 05/06/2015 09:52, Brian-Gaff wrote:

To me, an organisation of the size of Alton should have at least a
paramedic of its own on site, surely?
Brian


According to the report on the radio yesterday they do, and that is why
it was 11 minutes (or similar) between the accident and 999 being
called. That was the time for their own paramedics to get to the scene
and decide it was too big for them to handle alone.

--
CB

CB wrote:

According to the report on the radio yesterday they do, and that is why
it was 11 minutes (or similar) between the accident and 999 being
called.

I heard it phrased slightly differently "11 minutes between management
being informed there had been and accident and the call being made"
which made me wonder how long between the accident and management being
informed?

That was the time for their own paramedics to get to the scene
and decide it was too big for them to handle alone.

Yes, I heard they have their own first-responders, which could just be
people with other jobs there who have a certain level of first-aid
training, used to dealing with cuts, grazes and sprains.

On 05/06/2015 09:52, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Maybe they should have used an air ambulance, but I wonder if there are
nearby places to land it?

From the video I have seen, four landed in the grounds.

--
F

www.vulcantothesky.org - 2015, the last year to see a Vulcan fly

On 04/06/2015 21:26, Jonno wrote:
Dave Liquorice scribbled


On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

Maybe but:

" ... ambulance crews said the 999 call was not made until 14:08."

"Crews from the West Midlands Ambulance Service arrived on the
scene at
14:35 ..."

27 minutes for the ambulance(s) to arrive. Nearly half an hour of
selfies... But isn't 27 minutes some what outside the target response
times?


Then someone thought it might be a good idea to call the fire brigade.
According to the Daily Hate, Alton Towers reckon the ambulance service
should have called the firemen. Looks like they're more concerned with
bad publicity than care of their customers.




What is more important to me is will Alton Towers owners pay for the
rescue services? I feel they should.

On 05/06/2015 08:49, Broadback wrote:
....
What is more important to me is will Alton Towers owners pay for the
rescue services? I feel they should.

From what we know so far, it seems likely they will pay considerably
more than that in fines for H&S breaches.

--
Colin Bignell

On 05/06/2015 10:25, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 05/06/2015 08:49, Broadback wrote:
...
What is more important to me is will Alton Towers owners pay for the
rescue services? I feel they should.

From what we know so far, it seems likely they will pay considerably
more than that in fines for H&S breaches.

Sad to say Alton Towers are hardly a shining example of corporate
honesty. Before being given planning permission at the start of their
expansion they undertook to build roads suitable for the traffic. Though
being pressed several times they have never done so. As a result the
residents of Alton and surrounding area have problems even crossing the
road. As though the noise was not bad enough!

On 05/06/15 11:07, Broadback wrote:
On 05/06/2015 10:25, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 05/06/2015 08:49, Broadback wrote:
...
What is more important to me is will Alton Towers owners pay for the
rescue services? I feel they should.

From what we know so far, it seems likely they will pay considerably
more than that in fines for H&S breaches.

Sad to say Alton Towers are hardly a shining example of corporate
honesty. Before being given planning permission at the start of their
expansion they undertook to build roads suitable for the traffic. Though
being pressed several times they have never done so. As a result the
residents of Alton and surrounding area have problems even crossing the
road. As though the noise was not bad enough!

If the PP was conditional on the roads being built, why have the council
not issue an enforcement notice?

On 05/06/15 08:49, Broadback wrote:

What is more important to me is will Alton Towers owners pay for the
rescue services? I feel they should.

That would imply some sort of negligence on their part to insist they
pay, surely?

There is a blog making allegations about the state of the chain of
command at Alton Towers but I think we'd have to wait to see what the
investigators report.

Jonno submitted this idea :
They already pay tax, rates etc. You willing to pay for such services
if you fall down the stairs?

If I repeatedly fell down the stairs, knew I was prone falling down the
stairs, yet took no extra care to prevent myself falling down the
stairs - then yes a charge for repeated attendance would be acceptable
for a preventable accident.

Hasn't there been a whole series of accident on this ride?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Hasn't there been a whole series of accident on this ride?

Depends what you class as an 'incident' or an 'accident' this appears to
be the first that has actually caused injuries ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smiler_%28roller_coaster%29#Incidents

Andy Burns used his keyboard to write :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Hasn't there been a whole series of accident on this ride?

Depends what you class as an 'incident' or an 'accident' this appears to be
the first that has actually caused injuries ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smiler_%28roller_coaster%29#Incidents

Rather a long list of incidents and injuries don't you think?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

On 05/06/2015 09:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc


In the case of a theme park, what they want is the appearance of danger
in a safe environment.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 05/06/2015 09:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may
want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like
jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc


In the case of a theme park, what they want is the appearance of danger in
a safe environment.

Colin Bignell


well...danger appeared .....

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Jim GM4DHJ ...
wrote:

"Nightjar .me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 05/06/2015 09:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may
want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like
jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

In the case of a theme park, what they want is the appearance of danger
in a safe environment.

well...danger appeared .....

Let us know when you're close to running out of those full-stops. We'll
have a whip-round and buy you some more.


good man ...

The whole point is to care without danger though. Most of these devices are
built with safety in mind. If you look around the world there are many of
these still built of wood that creak groan and actually move when on them.
In this case it looks like a fail safe itself failed, which has to be a very
rare event.

Not that these things are my cup of tea, as not being able to see its not
much fun at all.

I remember as a kidgoing on one that had a water splash right at the bottom
of an olmost vertical plunge. It was quite scary, but due to the wind that
day, we all got soaked.
brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:56:47 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

The whole point is to care without danger though. Most of these devices
are built with safety in mind. If you look around the world there are
many of these still built of wood that creak groan and actually move
when on them. In this case it looks like a fail safe itself failed,
which has to be a very rare event.

We have a wooden one opening near us very soon. A refurbished, quite old,
one (in fact, the oldest in the UK, built in 1920). It is Grade II listed.

Apparently wooden ones are popular because they move and make noises...

Not that these things are my cup of tea, as not being able to see its
not much fun at all.

I just don't like them anyway.

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:56:47 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

The whole point is to care without danger though. Most of these devices
are built with safety in mind. If you look around the world there are
many of these still built of wood that creak groan and actually move
when on them. In this case it looks like a fail safe itself failed,
which has to be a very rare event.

We have a wooden one opening near us very soon. A refurbished, quite old,
one (in fact, the oldest in the UK, built in 1920). It is Grade II listed.

Apparently wooden ones are popular because they move and make noises...

I went on the Big Dipper at Battersea Park - mid 50s.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 05/06/2015 11:53, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 09:56:47 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

The whole point is to care without danger though. Most of these devices
are built with safety in mind. If you look around the world there are
many of these still built of wood that creak groan and actually move
when on them. In this case it looks like a fail safe itself failed,
which has to be a very rare event.

We have a wooden one opening near us very soon. A refurbished, quite old,
one (in fact, the oldest in the UK, built in 1920). It is Grade II listed.

Apparently wooden ones are popular because they move and make noises...

Which IME makes the girl sitting next to you hold on that little bit
tighter.


--
Colin Bignell

Was that the water chute in the Kursaal at Southend?
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Friday, 5 June 2015 09:19:28 UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

Does that include things like smoking, drinking, unprotected sex, climbing mountains, hang-gliding, snorting cocaine and voting UKIP ;-)

I'm sure everyone likes to have 'hobbies'.

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

I do not like heights but I am still going to do a parachute jump.

--
Adam

In article , ARW
o.uk scribeth thus
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people may want
danger and really wild things until it bites them back ........like jumping
off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

I do not like heights but I am still going to do a parachute jump.


Well make sure someone's around to post the vid of it if it might be
posthumous;!..
--
Tony Sayer


A boring olde fart who would never jump form a serviceable aeroplane;!..

ARW wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
I have NEVER been on a roller coaster but I understand how people
may want danger and really wild things until it bites them back
........like jumping off buildings...diving off high cliffs....etc

I do not like heights but I am still going to do a parachute jump.

As my French teacher said in 1962, it was an inspired but of misdiretion
to call it a parachute *jump* when it's really a bloody long *fall*.

We attended to what he said on such matters - and much more besides - as
he had twice parachuted into occupied France with the SoE
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Actually there is a lot to be said for good old reliable land lines
connected by shock horror, wires!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"ARW" wrote in message
...
It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

--
Adam

On Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 6:47:56 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and post
on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews arrived.

--
Adam

People are always reluctant to call out emergency services.
When I was in the NHS the rule was "If you smell smoke, call the fire brigade".
They never did,they used to call me instead.

So I expect that was what happened.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

And yet, in this (frankly uplifting) story, the crowd active prevented
filming

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32993891

from that link

"To his astonishment there were still people on the bus, apparently unaware.
"A few of us started shouting for them to get off," he says. A double-decker
bus is hard enough to shift without passengers, and emptying it seems to
have made the crucial difference."

I cannot see a few people still on the bus making much difference. Unless
they are the same weight as my SiL



--
Adam

In article , ARW
o.uk scribeth thus
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 18:47:42 +0100, ARW wrote:

It might have taken Alton Towers 11 minutes to call for an ambulance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33011347

but surely that was just to give the teenagers time to take selfies and
post on facebook, twitter and snapchat etc before the ambulance crews
arrived.

And yet, in this (frankly uplifting) story, the crowd active prevented
filming

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32993891

from that link

"To his astonishment there were still people on the bus, apparently unaware.
"A few of us started shouting for them to get off," he says. A double-decker
bus is hard enough to shift without passengers, and emptying it seems to
have made the crucial difference."

I cannot see a few people still on the bus making much difference. Unless
they are the


same weight as my SiL



Which is;?....

In long or short ton's
--
Tony Sayer