what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

---
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critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

---
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Insulation will always be defeated by cold weather as the volume of
water and hence energy content is very small.
Re-route the pipework into a drain run inside the house. use 22mm
overflow solvent weld pipe. you can get a variety of adaptors to
whatever size drain pipe you have to hand.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 16:45:22 +0000, critcher wrote:

if so are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.

Donno but there is a (small) risk that flue gases could escape into
the room. There should be a water trap in the boiler or an automatic
syphon that stops gases escaping down the condensate drain.

The condensate drain shouldn't freeze. Find the installation
instructions for your boiler (online?) and see what they say about
the drain when outside. The pipe size normally steps up when going
outside. It's very common for this not to happen though (installers
have to carry two sizes of pipe, adapters etc) and frozen condensate
drains is the result.

The automatic syphon feature is good as it dumps a relatively large
volume of warm water in one go, rather than a continious cool
dribble.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 14/12/2014 16:51, Bob Minchin wrote:
critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

Insulation will always be defeated by cold weather as the volume of
water and hence energy content is very small.
Re-route the pipework into a drain run inside the house. use 22mm
overflow solvent weld pipe. you can get a variety of adaptors to
whatever size drain pipe you have to hand.


I was hoping to be able to direct the condensate flow inside in bad
weather and outside during summer. My boiler is not in a very good
position to do as you say, but thanks for the info. How much condensate
is generated in these boilers? ie. 1 pint per day, per week?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.


--
Colin Bignell

"critcher" wrote in message
...

I was hoping to be able to direct the condensate flow inside in bad
weather and outside during summer. My boiler is not in a very good
position to do as you say, but thanks for the info. How much condensate is
generated in these boilers? ie. 1 pint per day, per week?


I took my condensate off a few years ago because it froze up twice in a
week.
I had it running into a bucket in the cupboard under the boiler.
I checked after 4 hours and there wasn't a drop.
The next day there was about a teaspoonful, I checked again after about 5
days and would have had trouble filling an eggcup with the contents of the
bucket.
I left it in place for about 2 months because my boiler is upstairs and
getting up ladders in icy weather with a kettle of boiling water is
overrated.

I'll bet there wasn't half a pint of condensate in that time, boiler is now
6 years old so it would have been 4 years old when i did this, my advice is
to try it, check it regularly and don't allow children or pets to go near
it, the condensate is fairly nasty stuff and it's corrosive.

On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

Just re-route the condensate pipe to an internal drain. Google
condensate pumps, if this involves making the water go uphill. The pumps
have a thin, flexible plastic hose that is very easy to run.

On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 14/12/2014 17:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?


You should really explain this to icicles, which, if your theory is
correct, really have no right to form.

In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in
the plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe.
The tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if
so are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself. If not
possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm
copper pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the
condensate pipe from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?

my what can happen, and I know of two instances is that insects can build a
nest in the pipe, the first drop of water stalls and freezes and the next
drop, etc.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

I used the same insulation and just secured it with plastic tie wires.
No problems.

On 14/12/2014 17:43, GB wrote:

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build up of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?


You should really explain this to icicles, which, if your theory is
correct, really have no right to form.

Ha, I ask because 24 hours from now, I'm going to be the proud owner of
a condensing boiler, with external condensate pipe !

How about something like this ?:-

https://www.traceheatinguk.co.uk/product?pid=5963&cat=1882&nm=2m+Pre-made+Frost+Protection+Trace+Heating+Kit+with+Therm ostat#images


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 14/12/2014 17:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1






that diagram is fairly accurate except that the fall on mine is about 4
metres and at the bottom
is a soakaway as there wasn't a drain available. The condensate pipe
terminates in a larger plastic
pipe about 35mm dia for about 30 inches, this then leads to the soakaway.


---
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"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls over
the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time to
freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1

This would be correct if it gushed out, but it doesn't, it drips, very, very
slowly, maybe a drip every few hours, as the first drip runs down the inside
of the pipe, it freezes to the side, then the next does the same, and so on
until the pipe is a solid block of ice, and the boiler shuts down.

On 14/12/2014 18:02, Phil L wrote:

This would be correct if it gushed out, but it doesn't, it drips, very, very
slowly, maybe a drip every few hours, as the first drip runs down the inside
of the pipe, it freezes to the side, then the next does the same, and so on
until the pipe is a solid block of ice, and the boiler shuts down.

I see. So it's only likely to be a problem during a period of continuous
freezing conditions over several days ? Overnight frosts, but 3C
during the day is unlikely to allow a significant build up ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 14/12/2014 18:02, Phil L wrote:
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls over
the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time to
freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1

This would be correct if it gushed out, but it doesn't, it drips, very, very
slowly, maybe a drip every few hours, as the first drip runs down the inside
of the pipe, it freezes to the side, then the next does the same, and so on
until the pipe is a solid block of ice, and the boiler shuts down.


that doesn,t happen Phil, there is a auto syphon which activates at a
predetermined level inside the condensate tank in the boiler and dumps a
"slug of water" down the pipe

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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In article ,
"Phil L" writes:

"critcher" wrote in message
...

I was hoping to be able to direct the condensate flow inside in bad
weather and outside during summer. My boiler is not in a very good
position to do as you say, but thanks for the info. How much condensate is
generated in these boilers? ie. 1 pint per day, per week?

I took my condensate off a few years ago because it froze up twice in a
week.
I had it running into a bucket in the cupboard under the boiler.
I checked after 4 hours and there wasn't a drop.
The next day there was about a teaspoonful, I checked again after about 5
days and would have had trouble filling an eggcup with the contents of the
bucket.
I left it in place for about 2 months because my boiler is upstairs and
getting up ladders in icy weather with a kettle of boiling water is
overrated.

I'll bet there wasn't half a pint of condensate in that time, boiler is now
6 years old so it would have been 4 years old when i did this, my advice is
to try it, check it regularly and don't allow children or pets to go near
it, the condensate is fairly nasty stuff and it's corrosive.

Mine generates a constant trickle when the burner is firing, but I
run it at 45C/38C flow/return, which is about as efficient as it is
it possible to be, so it generates maximum condensate. Unless you
have large radiators for low temperature use, this is unlikely to
pass enough heat into the house from the radiators, but it's worth
trying if you haven't done so because if it works for you, it will
save you gas.

One possibility is that yours is ejecting most of the condensate as
fog from the flue terminal, which is also fine.

If yours is running at over 55C return, you will get little if any
condensate as it's not running in condensing mode. In this case, it
will be ejecting steam from the flue which condenses into fog when
it mixes with the cold air outside. The difference here is that the
fog appears an inch or so after the end of the flue terminal where
it mixes with the cold air, as opposed to the case above where the
fog can be seen coming out of the flue terminal because the condensing
already happened in the boiler.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 14/12/2014 17:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside,...

Not in this case. It is at an angle of about 45 degrees, to run into an
existing drain gulley.


--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
critcher writes:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The

Here's one you can buy specially for that purpose:
http://www.bes.co.uk/product/87d~PL~...ASS-VALVE.html

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
critcher writes:
On 14/12/2014 18:02, Phil L wrote:
This would be correct if it gushed out, but it doesn't, it drips, very, very
slowly, maybe a drip every few hours, as the first drip runs down the inside
of the pipe, it freezes to the side, then the next does the same, and so on
until the pipe is a solid block of ice, and the boiler shuts down.

that doesn,t happen Phil, there is a auto syphon which activates at a
predetermined level inside the condensate tank in the boiler and dumps a
"slug of water" down the pipe

I don't believe most condensing boilers do this, although a few do.
The other thing that will trigger this behaviour is the use of a
condensate pump.

Most have a syphon to prevent flue gasses passing into the condensate
pipework, but that syphon has to remain full for safety.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 14/12/2014 17:34, GB wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

Just re-route the condensate pipe to an internal drain. Google
condensate pumps, if this involves making the water go uphill. The pumps
have a thin, flexible plastic hose that is very easy to run.


Thanks for all the replies, I quite like the idea of the electric heater
cable and have ordered a set.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

In article ,
Mark Carver writes:
On 14/12/2014 17:43, GB wrote:

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build up of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?


You should really explain this to icicles, which, if your theory is
correct, really have no right to form.

Ha, I ask because 24 hours from now, I'm going to be the proud owner of
a condensing boiler, with external condensate pipe !

I recall a posting, perhaps 15 years ago, from someone who had a
condensing boiler fitted when they first became available in
domestic power outputs. Plumber left the condensate pipe dripping
onto the conservatory roof, which was fine until the first winter
when an icicle several feet long came crashing through the
conservatory roof.

How about something like this ?:-

https://www.traceheatinguk.co.uk/product?pid=5963&cat=1882&nm=2m+Pre-made+Frost+Protection+Trace+Heating+Kit+with+Therm ostat#images

I made my own for a dehumidifier drain pipe many years ago. I found the
commercial products much more expensive than I thought they should be
(although that one above is probably one of the cheapest I've seen).
I made up a length of insulated resistance wire inside the pipe, with a
small loop poking out the end before it returned back up the pipe.
It ran off 18V AC, using a froststat positioned outside. IIRC, I ran
it at 6W/m (and it was a 3m pipe).

My boiler generates a continuous stream of luke-warm condensate when the
burner is firing, and it's never frozen in the 1m of 32mm plastic waste
pipe it runs along outside. (Most boiler installation instructions require
32mm or larger diameter condensate pipework outside.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls over
the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time to
freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1

Doesn't explain why people have had it freeze.

Presumably the flow rate is so low that it actually
seeps down and doesn't fall down and so gets to
freeze as it seeps and eventually blocks.

On 14/12/2014 19:01, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
critcher writes:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The

Here's one you can buy specially for that purpose:
http://www.bes.co.uk/product/87d~PL~...ASS-VALVE.html

Same sort of idea, but DIY and cheaper:

Assuming your pipe from the boiler to the external drain is vertical,
you could just put a Tee above the bottom elbow and take that to your
container. If the external drain freezes the water will back up and
escape via the Tee. Probably worth making the initial run slope
backwards towards the vertical pipe for a bit.

In article , critcher
writes

Thanks for all the replies, I quite like the idea of the electric heater
cable and have ordered a set.

It wouldn't do any harm to insulate it too, over the top.

On an install I looked at recently the external condensate run had been
done in 38mm waste to make freezing less likely.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article ,
fred writes:
It wouldn't do any harm to insulate it too, over the top.

On an install I looked at recently the external condensate run had been
done in 38mm waste to make freezing less likely.

32mm min is a requirement for condensate pipework outside in many
boiler installation instructions.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:06:00 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Most have a syphon to prevent flue gasses passing into the condensate
pipework, but that syphon has to remain full for safety.

s/syphon/trap/ B-)


--
Cheers
Dave.

On 14/12/14 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com



How about a simple up'n'over into a trap then a tank:

====
| |
===== C | |========
| | |
| | |
===== |
|
Tank



C continues on to the outside

The "Up" give you automatic diversion if C is blocked
The water trap prevents fumes escaping (many boilers require condensate
drains downstream of traps on sinks etc).

No moving parts - idiot proof, as long as the tank has sufficient capacity.

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:06:00 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Most have a syphon to prevent flue gasses passing into the condensate
pipework, but that syphon has to remain full for safety.

s/syphon/trap/ B-)

oops, yes.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 14/12/2014 18:02, Phil L wrote:
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls over
the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time to
freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1

This would be correct if it gushed out, but it doesn't, it drips, very, very
slowly, maybe a drip every few hours, as the first drip runs down the inside
of the pipe, it freezes to the side, then the next does the same, and so on
until the pipe is a solid block of ice, and the boiler shuts down.

I don't think its wise to extrapolate from one installation, to all. For
example, mine dumps its condensate in measured bursts from the syphon,
and probably produces several litres of condensate per day.

As others have said, much depends on how much actual condensing it is
doing, and how much of that is collected rather than being ejected from
the flue.

Also note that some condensers only condense in CH mode, and may not do
so for DHW which again will affect the amount of condensate produced.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 14/12/2014 17:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 14/12/2014 17:23, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

On a friend's boiler, I simply used preformed insulation for 22mm copper
pipe, covered with aluminium tape. It has prevented the condensate pipe
from freezing for many years now.

Presumably the condensate pipe is (usually) a vertical drop from the
moment it emerges outside, so where is the build of of water going to
occur to create a frozen blockage ? Surely the moment the water falls
over the 90 deg bend, it just drops at 9.81 m/s/s out and away, no time
to freeze ?

This is what I imagine the arrangement is (randomly googled picture):-

http://www.homeserve.com/~/media/help-and-advice/article-images/condensate-pipe-diagram.png?w=250&h=250&as=1

Ideally the condensate should only be run externally in a larger bore
pipe. The 21mm (ish) pipe from the boiler should never be run through a
low temperature space for any distance. Running internally and joining
to a 40mm (or larger) waste pipe should ensure that its difficult to get
a complete freeze up of the larger pipe outside.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:41:05 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I'll bet there wasn't half a pint of condensate in that time, boiler is now
6 years old so it would have been 4 years old when i did this, my advice is
to try it, check it regularly and don't allow children or pets to go near
it, the condensate is fairly nasty stuff and it's corrosive.

Mine generates a constant trickle when the burner is firing,

Do most boilers do this?
My Vaillant has a siphonic system, so the water goes out in short, warm
pulses. The pipe is on a NW wall, so gets no sun in Winter but even at -10C
it's never frozen. It slopes at 45 deg., so that might be its salvation.

Because the siphon has a very low head, I clean it out every couple of years
as very little would be needed to block it.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

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Although I have no experience of it I did see on the WB website the
other day that they have a gadget for just this situation.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/hom...s/condensesure

"CB" wrote in message ...
On 14/12/2014 16:45, critcher wrote:
what about this then, my condensate outlet pipe runs down outside wall
from upstairs room, in freezing conditions these pipes are prone to
freezing and blocking. What is the possibility of fitting a valve in the
plastic pipework inside the house to divert the condensate to an
internal tank when conditions outside are enough to freeze the pipe. The
tank would have to be emptied manually, but is it feasable, and if so
are there any regulations stopping me from doing it myself.
If not possible, what is the best way to insulate these pipes?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com



Although I have no experience of it I did see on the WB website the
other day that they have a gadget for just this situation.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/hom...s/condensesure

Very poorly written documentation.