Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 23/11/14 14:54, Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Why do you have to tell them? Does your policy say so explicity?

I don't see any difference between fitting winter tyres and any other
tyre change - after all, each time I get a new tyre I choose from what
is available and make the best choice/money I can.

On 23/11/2014 14:54, Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

It is probably an indication of just how competitive the insurance
market is. Companies try to make the customer pay for every little
extra. Personally I don't think it is a good business model.
--
Peter Crosland

Reply address is valid

"Roger Mills" wrote in message ...

Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days if
you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or adding
business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In the
past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter tyres -
has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin charge.
However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had just
fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me. When I
complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the charge "on
this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it on again when
I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres are
a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a claim in
the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my insurance were
to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of fitting/removing them.

Change insurer
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files...commitment.pdf
http://preview.tinyurl.com/mycsovg

Roger Mills wrote:

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

I don't swap between summer/winter tyres, but if I did, I doubt I'd
consider it a "modification" necessary to report to the insurer, does
yours /actually/ demand you notify them of this?

The only mention of the word "tyre" in my policy is to exclude them from
cover for damage.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

Really? Do they need to be informed when you add winter screenwash too? ;-)

--
*Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have.

Dave Plowman London SW 12

Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim

On 23/11/2014 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

That has always been my assumption when fitting winter tyres and it
determined my choice of tyre when buying them.

--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Tim+ writes:
Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Mine just lists what size they have to be, not any makes/types.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/11/2014 14:54, Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

If I were you, I would contact the insurance company in writing to ask
for their policy on exactly that issue. Depending on the response, you
might have ammunition for the reversal in spring, or another question
for next year's renewal with all the other companies.

--
Rod

On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/2014 14:54, Roger Mills wrote:
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had
just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me.
When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the
charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it
on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

It is probably an indication of just how competitive the insurance market
is. Companies try to make the customer pay for every little extra.
Personally I don't think it is a good business model.

unfortunately, it's the one that the rise of internet comparison sites has
foisted upon us

tim

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

do you mean technically?

or something else

On 23/11/14 17:21, tim..... wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

do you mean technically?


I mean in the context of this discussion.

I buy my tyres by:

size
load rating
max speed
runflat (where applicable)


These are the criteria that make the tyre suitable or not suitable for
the car.

Within that criteria being met there are 100s of makes and versions of
tyres, all with different abilities and prices. I used to buy tyres that
were good at clearing water (Zeon ZV4s) but 2 years ago I discovered
they were rubbish in snow.

So now I'm looking at winter tyres[1] as I have my fronts coming up for
replacement anyway.

I see no difference in mounting "winter tyres" to "wet weather tyres"
except the latter were not branded as such - they were just highly rated
in that ability.


I certainly do not think I need to tell my insurers - though I will run
a search over the policy docs to double check. It occurred to me no more
than changing the brand of my screenwash.


[1] I was talking to a local garage which excelled themselves sorting
out SWMBOs Mini when the antiroll bush went.

I used to thing winter tyres = another set of rims. It's now been
explained to me that they can and do regularly demount and remount a
full set of tyres for a lot of customers and this works well if you have
somewhere to store them - which I now do.

My car's never been fun in the ice (well, it's "fun" but only if you
don't need to go anywhere fast!) so I thought I might try it this year,
especially as we are doing a week in the Forest of Dean for a winter
holiday and there are some nice slopy roads around there.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

Where on earth did you get that info from?

--
Adam

On 23/11/2014 16:46, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

Compared to summer or all weather tyres: A softer compound that has
better grip when the temperature drops to 7C or less. A tread pattern
that is designed to provide better grip on snow; for road use this does
not have to be a mud and snow pattern, which can be noisy.

In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.

--
Colin Bignell

On 23/11/2014 15:20, Richard wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message ...

Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these
days if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another
driver, or adding business use - part-way through the year, and that
is probably reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In
the past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter
tyres - has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin
charge. However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I
had just fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50
on me. When I complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to
waive the charge "on this occasion" - with the implication that they
would try it on again when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter
tyres are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to
make a claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation
if my insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result
of fitting/removing them.

Change insurer
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files...commitment.pdf

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mycsovg


Many thanks for that link. My insurer is listed among those not needing
to be told about winter tyres, and for which there is no effect on the
premium! So why didn't they say "You don't need to tell us" when I
phoned them the other day?

I have invoked their complaints procedure about the way my call was
handled, anyway - and this link will provide very useful ammunition if I
get a less than satisfactory reply.

Several people have asked why I bothered to tell them in the first
place. All insurers have clauses about being able to repudiate claims if
you have failed to disclose any material facts - and usually give advice
along the lines of "If you're not sure whether it's material, tell us
anyway in order to be safe". I haven't found anything in my
documentation which specifically refers to winter tyres - but there are
lots of references to "modifications" without defining exactly what is
meant by the term. I've had conversations with my insurer at renewal
time, stating that I would be using winter tyres in the winter - and
they have always asked me to let them know when I fit and remove them,
and have always confirmed that there would be no change to the premium.
This is the first time that they've tried to impose an admin fee.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 23/11/2014 16:46, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

Compared to summer or all weather tyres: A softer compound that has better
grip when the temperature drops to 7C or less. A tread pattern that is
designed to provide better grip on snow; for road use this does not have
to be a mud and snow pattern, which can be noisy.

In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.

Vot sort of tyres do you have? Ver is your paperwork?



--
Adam

On 23/11/2014 18:30, ARW wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these
days if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another
driver, or adding business use - part-way through the year, and that
is probably reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

Where on earth did you get that info from?

A few years ago I asked my insurers about this very issue. They were
extremely iffy. In the end, I could not get any that were the right size
for my car so did not need to go further. They appeared to take the view
that anyone who fits winter tyres will be out on the roads in severe
conditions which everyone else would avoid - hence an overall increase
in risk.

--
Rod

On 23/11/2014 15:50, Tim+ wrote:


Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim

Yes they are, but they're a sort of optional extra rather than
alternative - because the recommended size is different from the
standard tyre - so you need different rims as well.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 23/11/2014 16:45, polygonum wrote:


If I were you, I would contact the insurance company in writing to ask
for their policy on exactly that issue. Depending on the response, you
might have ammunition for the reversal in spring, or another question
for next year's renewal with all the other companies.


That is precisely what I've done, via their complaints procedure. I
shall await the reply with interest - especially in the light of the ABI
document cited by another poster.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 23/11/2014 18:17, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/11/14 17:21, tim..... wrote:

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

do you mean technically?


I mean in the context of this discussion.

I buy my tyres by:

size
load rating
max speed
runflat (where applicable)


These are the criteria that make the tyre suitable or not suitable for
the car.

Within that criteria being met there are 100s of makes and versions of
tyres, all with different abilities and prices. I used to buy tyres that
were good at clearing water (Zeon ZV4s) but 2 years ago I discovered
they were rubbish in snow.

So now I'm looking at winter tyres[1] as I have my fronts coming up for
replacement anyway.

I see no difference in mounting "winter tyres" to "wet weather tyres"
except the latter were not branded as such - they were just highly rated
in that ability.


I certainly do not think I need to tell my insurers - though I will run
a search over the policy docs to double check. It occurred to me no more
than changing the brand of my screenwash.


[1] I was talking to a local garage which excelled themselves sorting
out SWMBOs Mini when the antiroll bush went.

I used to thing winter tyres = another set of rims. It's now been
explained to me that they can and do regularly demount and remount a
full set of tyres for a lot of customers and this works well if you have
somewhere to store them - which I now do.

My car's never been fun in the ice (well, it's "fun" but only if you
don't need to go anywhere fast!) so I thought I might try it this year,
especially as we are doing a week in the Forest of Dean for a winter
holiday and there are some nice slopy roads around there.



The construction and formulation of winter tyres is different from
summer tyres. They use a softer rubber which remains flexible in cold
conditions, and the tread pattern is divided into a larger number of
smaller blocks - which can flex independently to grip the surface better
(allegedly!). However, their grip in warm conditions is inferior to that
of summer tyres, and they wear out faster - so need to be used only when
the temperature is predominantly below 7degC.

Some vehicle manufacturers - mine included - recommend a different wheel
and tyre size combination in the winter. My summer tyres are 225/45-17
which are totally useless in snow. The winter tyres are 205/55-16 which,
being slightly narrower and higher profile in addition to their 'winter
tyre' specification, makes them a lot better. There's no significant
change to the gearing despite being on 16" wheels rather than 17"
because the higher profile gives them virtually the same rolling radius,
within a couple of percent.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 23/11/2014 19:14, polygonum wrote:


A few years ago I asked my insurers about this very issue. They were
extremely iffy. In the end, I could not get any that were the right size
for my car so did not need to go further. They appeared to take the view
that anyone who fits winter tyres will be out on the roads in severe
conditions which everyone else would avoid - hence an overall increase
in risk.


With my standard tyres, I struggle to get out of my road when there's as
much as a light dusting of snow - but the winter tyres are infinitely
better. Much safer.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
Most insurance companies seem to charge an administration fee these days
if you make a change to your policy - such as adding another driver, or
adding business use - part-way through the year, and that is probably
reasonable.

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres. In the
past, my insurer - when told that I have fitted or removed winter tyres -
has simply made a note on the policy without levying an admin charge.
However, when I phoned a couple of days ago to report that I had just
fitted winter tyres, they tried to impose a charge of £17.50 on me. When I
complained, they went into a huddle and then agreed to waive the charge
"on this occasion" - with the implication that they would try it on again
when I remove the tyres in the Spring.

Have any others had a similar experience? Considering that winter tyres
are a safety feature which reduces the likelihood of having to make a
claim in the winter, I would take a dim view of the situation if my
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.
--
Cheers,
Roger

RAC charged us a quid for removing one 5 year old no blame accident whilst I
was shopping online for the best quotes. I went back with them after the
usual nasty phone call.
I rang up just to find out what the quid was for.
Okay, its only a quid, but if 100,000 people do it ............

On 23/11/14 18:55, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 23/11/2014 16:46, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/11/14 15:50, Tim+ wrote:
insurance were to cost an additional £35 p.a. simply as a result of
fitting/removing them.

Is a winter tyre mentioned in the owners handbook? I would have thought
that if it's a manufacturers listed option, there shouldn't be any
requirement to inform your insurance company.

Tim


I've had all sorts of makes of tyres over the years. None of them
"manufacturer listed".

What makes winter tyres special?

Compared to summer or all weather tyres: A softer compound that has
better grip when the temperature drops to 7C or less. A tread pattern
that is designed to provide better grip on snow; for road use this does
not have to be a mud and snow pattern, which can be noisy.

I should have phrased it:

What makes it special in the UK as far as insurance goes? It's just
another tyre...



In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.


Now if the concept is legally defined that's a different matter

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:54:54 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

Fitting winter tyres - assuming they meet the approved size and speed and
load ratings - isn't a modification or a departure from vehicle
specification, so there's no need to inform your insurer, any more than
there'd be a need to inform them you've changed brand of tyre.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:14:24 +0000, polygonum wrote:

A few years ago I asked my insurers about this very issue. They were
extremely iffy. In the end, I could not get any that were the right size
for my car so did not need to go further. They appeared to take the view
that anyone who fits winter tyres will be out on the roads in severe
conditions which everyone else would avoid - hence an overall increase
in risk.

Don't confuse an answer from a clueless call-centre muppet with an
official requirement.

In article , Roger Mills
writes
On 23/11/2014 15:20, Richard wrote:

Change insurer
https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files...blic/Migrated/
M
otor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20 insurance%20
c
ommitment.pdf

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mycsovg


Many thanks for that link. My insurer is listed among those not needing
to be told about winter tyres, and for which there is no effect on the
premium! So why didn't they say "You don't need to tell us" when I
phoned them the other day?

If you find in future you are with an insurer that requires winter
disclosure then simply make a single disclosure, "During winter months I
fit winter tyres to my vehicle" which covers your use in winter and
summer from now until whenever.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article , ARW
writes
"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message

In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.

Vot sort of tyres do you have? Ver is your paperwork?

Not that much different from the treatment in other snow zones requiring
you to have either snow tyres or chain up when conditions dictate:
France, US or Canada as examples.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On 23/11/14 15:16, Tim Watts wrote:


Why do you have to tell them? Does your policy say so explicity?

I don't see any difference between fitting winter tyres and any other
tyre change - after all, each time I get a new tyre I choose from what
is available and make the best choice/money I can.
One issue is speed rating. My car usually wears 225/45 WR 17 tyres IIRC,
the winters are HR or VR. The car probably can't exceed the HR rating
anyway, but some might see it as a modification, especially if you fit
steels instead of alloys (I have a spare set of alloys).

I just asked when taking out the policy, and they didn't care.

On 23/11/14 20:17, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:54:54 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

Insurers demand to be told when you make the slightest change to the
vehicle specification - including things like fitting winter tyres.

Fitting winter tyres - assuming they meet the approved size and speed and
load ratings - isn't a modification or a departure from vehicle
specification, so there's no need to inform your insurer, any more than
there'd be a need to inform them you've changed brand of tyre.

Problem is, quite ordinary cars, like my Leon, have high-speed tyres as
standard (WR IIRC), and winters are hard to come by with that rating. It
turned out my insurers don't care, though.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:44:41 +0000, Chris Bartram wrote:

One issue is speed rating. My car usually wears 225/45 WR 17 tyres IIRC,
the winters are HR or VR.

And what is the smallest/lowest-rated "official" option for your
particular spec of car? I'll bet it isn't 45 profile W-rated 17".

In message , at 16:46:09 on Sun, 23
Nov 2014, Tim Watts remarked:

What makes winter tyres special?

They work better in the Winter.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:47:06 +0000, Chris Bartram wrote:

Problem is, quite ordinary cars, like my Leon, have high-speed tyres as
standard (WR IIRC)

Just because they're the tyres it came on as standard doesn't mean
they're the only standard-fit tyre size.

Quick google says that the 225/45 17 size you gave in another answer is
part of a "sport pack" option on relatively cooking sections of the
range. A little more checking shows that standard fit with that engine
goes down to 195/65 15 V-rated.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:17:42 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

I buy my tyres by:

size
load rating
max speed
runflat (where applicable)

These are the criteria that make the tyre suitable or not suitable for
the car.

But not the road/surface conditions you are driving on. Winter tyres
have a softer compound than normal tyres at low temperatures. The
blocks of the tread pattern will have lots of sipes, narrow cuts
across the width of the tyre face.

The tyres that came with the current disco were some form of "go
faster" type with quite large blocks and not a sipe in sight. Even on
fresh deepish (4 to 6") snow it couldn't pull the skin of a rice
pudding let alone get back up a very shallow hill that it had just
come down. The only way was down, which involved at 1:7 also snow
covered hill. With proper Vredestein Wintrac's fitted it just drives
up that 1:7 covered in snow without batting an eyelid.

I see no difference in mounting "winter tyres" to "wet weather tyres"
except the latter were not branded as such - they were just highly rated
in that ability.

A true winter tyre will out perform an wet weather tyre, on snow...
I've worn the wintracs out after 45,000 miles and I'm now on Pirelli
Scorpion STR's not quite as good on snow as the Wintrac's but still
better than a "normal" tyre.

I certainly do not think I need to tell my insurers - though I will run
a search over the policy docs to double check.

I've certainly never come across such a requirement. Do people tell
their insurers when they replace a tyre after a puncture or when they
are worn out? Does everyone do absolute like for like replacement?
That I very much doubt, I expect most people just take it to a tyre
place and get the cheapest that will fit.

I used to thing winter tyres = another set of rims. It's now been
explained to me that they can and do regularly demount and remount a
full set of tyres for a lot of customers and this works well if you have
somewhere to store them - which I now do.

Another set of rims is the way to do it if you are going to swap them
yourself. Getting a tyre off a rim by hand isn't easy...

so I thought I might try it this year, especially as we are doing a week
in the Forest of Dean for a winter holiday and there are some nice slopy
roads around there.

Mud != snow != winter tyre. A more generic M+S (Mud and Snow) all
season tyre is probably a better bet that a real winter tyre. Just
keep an eye on the number of sipes.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:54:10 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

However, their grip in warm conditions is inferior to that of summer
tyres, and they wear out faster - so need to be used only when the
temperature is predominantly below 7degC.

Can't say I noticed this summer as I squeezed the last few thousand
miles out of a set of Vredestein Wintracs. They were getting a bit
iffy in the wet towards the end of life but by then they were only
just legal on tread depth.

As for wear 45,000 miles from the set of Vredstein's isn't to shabby.
Other tyres like Pirelli Scorpian STR, Michelin or Goodyear
somethings I've struggled to get 30,000 miles from. Winter tyres
have more natural rubber to remain softer at low temperatures, they
also contain more silica to make them tougher.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 23/11/14 20:56, Adrian wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:47:06 +0000, Chris Bartram wrote:

Problem is, quite ordinary cars, like my Leon, have high-speed tyres as
standard (WR IIRC)

Just because they're the tyres it came on as standard doesn't mean
they're the only standard-fit tyre size.

Quick google says that the 225/45 17 size you gave in another answer is
part of a "sport pack" option on relatively cooking sections of the
range. A little more checking shows that standard fit with that engine
goes down to 195/65 15 V-rated.

Yeah, mine has the sport pack, on a otherwise cooking 140BHP diesel.
Still wonder (as mine is insured as the Sport) if some insurance
companies may try to query if you have a lover speed rating?

Winter tyre options are listed somewhere too, and include 16" (and maybe
the 15" you quote) but does that count as "standard" given the precise
spec of any particular car? Many insurers make it a condition to quote
options, even if factory-fitted.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/14 18:55, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.

Now if the concept is legally defined that's a different matter

E/ECE/TRANS/505/Rev.2/Add.116/Rev.2

But this only refers to "normal" and "snow" (with Alpine symbol) tyres.
"winter" and "summer" have no official recognition. So contrary to popular
understanding, it is not possible to have a requirement to use specific
tyres to make routine journeys in Germany.

On 24/11/2014 00:26, DavidR wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 23/11/14 18:55, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

In Germany, the Police can stop you continuing your journey if you don't
have winter tyres fitted when the conditions call for them.

Now if the concept is legally defined that's a different matter

E/ECE/TRANS/505/Rev.2/Add.116/Rev.2

But this only refers to "normal" and "snow" (with Alpine symbol) tyres.
"winter" and "summer" have no official recognition. So contrary to popular
understanding, it is not possible to have a requirement to use specific
tyres to make routine journeys in Germany.

If you want to be pedantic about it, since November 2010, the law in
Germany requires all cars, foreign and domestic, to be fitted with snow
tyres, when conditions require them. The exact period is not specified,
but is normally taken as to be from October to March. Failure to comply
can lead to an on the spot fine and you may be prevented from continuing
your journey.


--
Colin Bignell

On 23/11/2014 20:12, Tim Watts wrote:
....
I should have phrased it:

What makes it special in the UK as far as insurance goes? It's just
another tyre...

Depending upon the car, you may need to be careful of speed ratings. My
winter tyres are only rated to 130mph, so I need to programme that into
the car as its maximum speed when they are fitted.


--
Colin Bignell