Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235 !
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?
If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:44:30 -0000, "Jim Hawkins"
wrote:

Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235 !
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?
If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

They've been talking about this a lot on Moneybox on BBC Radio 4
recently. That and home insurance that does the same. One example had
a well-known company for insuring the elderly charging a regular
renewal 5 times (that's _five_ times) the premium for new business.
The gist of it is, get a better quote elsewhere then go back to your
original company and let them beat it for you. Or just tell them to
sod off and buy elsewhere anyway. There's no reward for loyalty seems
to be the latest mantra.

Nick

Jim Hawkins wrote:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

uk.rec.cars.misc? uk.finance?

The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his
word that the charge would be reduced to £235. Luckily I have a week or
two to decide what to do before the present policy expires.

Pay the renewal by credit card over the phone, and scream at the card
company if the payment in incorrect? Cancel the direct debit just to be
sure.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?

SOP for insurance. Punter rings up to say 'but I can get it for £x at
elsewhere' and all of a sudden the quote comes down. Or do a 'new
customer' quote on their website and then ring to complain that you're being
charged more for a renewal. Or just move elsewhere.

Theo

Or pay it with the text of the new quote attached via a cheque only for the
amount agreed in audio. If they have not got a card or dd then if they
complain you know they are not to be trusted.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

uk.rec.cars.misc? uk.finance?

The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his
word that the charge would be reduced to £235. Luckily I have a week or
two to decide what to do before the present policy expires.

Pay the renewal by credit card over the phone, and scream at the card
company if the payment in incorrect? Cancel the direct debit just to be
sure.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated
'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?

SOP for insurance. Punter rings up to say 'but I can get it for £x at
elsewhere' and all of a sudden the quote comes down. Or do a 'new
customer' quote on their website and then ring to complain that you're
being
charged more for a renewal. Or just move elsewhere.

Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

uk.rec.cars.misc? uk.finance?

I tried to access both these (and others), but failed. I suspect that
only some newsgroup providers list them


The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing
- I would have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and
accept his word that the charge would be reduced to £235. Luckily I
have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

Pay the renewal by credit card over the phone, and scream at the card
company if the payment in incorrect? Cancel the direct debit just to
be sure.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated
'quote' and hoping the punter won't object ?

SOP for insurance. Punter rings up to say 'but I can get it for £x at
elsewhere' and all of a sudden the quote comes down. Or do a 'new
customer' quote on their website and then ring to complain that
you're being charged more for a renewal. Or just move elsewhere.

Theo

In article , Jim Hawkins
writes
Theo Markettos wrote:
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

uk.rec.cars.misc? uk.finance?

I tried to access both these (and others), but failed. I suspect that
only some newsgroup providers list them

Nah, your (pay) provider has had its ups and downs but those are
mainstream text groups and should be on their servers, try a full
newsgroup refresh and they should be there.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article ,
"Jim Hawkins" writes:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235 !
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?

It's the norm.

If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

If you want to stay with them, go to their website and get a quote
as though you are a new customer.

I was getting ready to do this, but my renewal came in at less than
last year, so I just stuck with it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mar 22, 12:11*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "Jim Hawkins" writes:









Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 *- a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235 *!
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, *and accept his word that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?

It's the norm.

If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

If you want to stay with them, go to their website and get a quote
as though you are a new customer.

I was getting ready to do this, but my renewal came in at less than
last year, so I just stuck with it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Good advice. But the website may "recognise" you.

In article ,
harry writes:
On Mar 22, 12:11*am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you want to stay with them, go to their website and get a quote
as though you are a new customer.

Good advice. But the website may "recognise" you.

It amazes me that they don't, but so far when I've done it, they don't.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
harry writes:
On Mar 22, 12:11 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you want to stay with them, go to their website and get a quote
as though you are a new customer.

Good advice. But the website may "recognise" you.

It amazes me that they don't, but so far when I've done it, they don't.

Worth logging in with a different email address. I've had two different
quotes from Direct Line when using different addresses. The higher quote
was to an address I had used before. Changing my email address got me a
lower quote.

Tim

In article

, Tim+ writes

Worth logging in with a different email address. I've had two different
quotes from Direct Line when using different addresses. The higher quote
was to an address I had used before. Changing my email address got me a
lower quote.

I never use a valid email address when I'm making my first trawl for
quotes, nothing for them to spam if I don't proceed and they always put
the price on screen anyway. I can change it later if I take up the
quote.

For the o/p, my policy with all suppliers (insurance or otherwise) is
best quote first time every time, I don't give a anyone the opportunity
to revise their quote so in your case I'd be changing provider. Why give
your business to someone who would happily have stiffed you if you
hadn't done you research?

I do have one policy with Direct Line and they haven't tried to stiff me
on renewals yet, we'll see what this year brings.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Tim+ wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
harry writes:
On Mar 22, 12:11 am, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:

If you want to stay with them, go to their website and get a quote
as though you are a new customer.

Good advice. But the website may "recognise" you.

It amazes me that they don't, but so far when I've done it, they don't.

Worth logging in with a different email address. I've had two different
quotes from Direct Line when using different addresses. The higher quote
was to an address I had used before. Changing my email address got me a
lower quote.

I never use an E-Mail address as my user login name if I can avoid it.

--
Chris Green

On 22/03/2013 00:11, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
but my renewal came in at less than
last year, so I just stuck with it.


Just make sure the renewal tern and conditions are the same. It may be
the same premium but watch they haven't increased your excess from a
couple of hundred quid to a couple of thousand!


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you before. Most insurance companies
do the same - hoping you can't be bothered to shop around.

DL did just this to me some years ago with the house insurance - upped it
by 45%. Got a quote on their website - using the same details - for less
than 1/3rd of the renewal premium. And I also had two cars insured with
them.

So I wrote to them and never got a reply - just a letter acknowledging
mine. So I changed everything to different insurers.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you before. Most insurance companies
do the same - hoping you can't be bothered to shop around.

DL did just this to me some years ago with the house insurance - upped it
by 45%. Got a quote on their website - using the same details - for less
than 1/3rd of the renewal premium. And I also had two cars insured with
them.

So I wrote to them and never got a reply - just a letter acknowledging
mine. So I changed everything to different insurers.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

On 22/03/2013 04:00, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you before. Most insurance
companies
do the same - hoping you can't be bothered to shop around.

DL did just this to me some years ago with the house insurance - upped it
by 45%. Got a quote on their website - using the same details - for less
than 1/3rd of the renewal premium. And I also had two cars insured with
them.

So I wrote to them and never got a reply - just a letter acknowledging
mine. So I changed everything to different insurers.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Direct Line are not to be trusted IMO. I have my van insured with them.

When I moved house I rang them to change the address, they wanted a fee
of £30 to do it. I told them where to stick their charge & they waived
it "on this occasion".

This caused me to check the monthly premiums - £44.

Quick check in the interweb got me 6 quotes of £28 for the same cover.

I e mailed, then phoned & they 'found' me a better deal at - guess what?
£28.





--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

in 1214336 20130322 081632 The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 22/03/2013 04:00, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was �193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is �339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you before. Most insurance
companies
do the same - hoping you can't be bothered to shop around.

DL did just this to me some years ago with the house insurance - upped it
by 45%. Got a quote on their website - using the same details - for less
than 1/3rd of the renewal premium. And I also had two cars insured with
them.

So I wrote to them and never got a reply - just a letter acknowledging
mine. So I changed everything to different insurers.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Direct Line are not to be trusted IMO. I have my van insured with them.

When I moved house I rang them to change the address, they wanted a fee
of �30 to do it. I told them where to stick their charge & they waived
it "on this occasion".

This caused me to check the monthly premiums - �44.

Quick check in the interweb got me 6 quotes of �28 for the same cover.

I e mailed, then phoned & they 'found' me a better deal at - guess what?
�28.

Seems standard practice. Every year my renewal quote from Saga is more than
double what I paid the previous year, and every time I search the web for the lowest
quote which they are happy to beat by £1.
If they quoted something reasonable I'd just pay up!

Bob Martin wrote:
in 1214336 20130322 081632 The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 22/03/2013 04:00, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was �193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is �339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you before. Most insurance
companies
do the same - hoping you can't be bothered to shop around.

DL did just this to me some years ago with the house insurance - upped it
by 45%. Got a quote on their website - using the same details - for less
than 1/3rd of the renewal premium. And I also had two cars insured with
them.

So I wrote to them and never got a reply - just a letter acknowledging
mine. So I changed everything to different insurers.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Direct Line are not to be trusted IMO. I have my van insured with them.

When I moved house I rang them to change the address, they wanted a fee
of �30 to do it. I told them where to stick their charge & they waived
it "on this occasion".

This caused me to check the monthly premiums - �44.

Quick check in the interweb got me 6 quotes of �28 for the same cover.

I e mailed, then phoned & they 'found' me a better deal at - guess what?
�28.

Seems standard practice. Every year my renewal quote from Saga is more than
double what I paid the previous year, and every time I search the web for the lowest
quote which they are happy to beat by £1.
If they quoted something reasonable I'd just pay up!

Each year my best quote is the renewal from the company I'm with. And I
ring them up and they knock an extra 10% off. I don't tend to do much
shopping round these days as everyone seems to be a lot more expensive. And
the company are OK when it comes time to make a claim.

In article ,
Bob Martin wrote:
Every year my renewal quote from Saga is more than double what I paid
the previous year, and every time I search the web for the lowest

Saga featured in the R4 prog about this. And their representative on the
prog was useless - refusing to answer direct questions. The impression I
was left with was they thought it ok to rip off the frail elderly. That it
was somehow their fault for not being able to shop around.

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/03/2013 08:16, The Medway Handyman wrote:

This caused me to check the monthly premiums - £44.

Quick check in the interweb got me 6 quotes of £28 for the same cover.

I e mailed, then phoned & they 'found' me a better deal at - guess what?
£28.

Check the APR versus paying the full hit in one (even on a 0% credit card).
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/car.../van-insurance
Find 'Beware monthly payment plans'
Don't know if you can be bothered but a cashback website might hand some
money back (but treat that as a nice-to-have rather than relying on it).
First time I used one a couple of weeks ago I got £62 back on a mobile
contract (another industry geared up for new customers only).

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

That may have been the case once - but not now. And this vast hiking of a
premium for no reason sort of coincides with the arrival of comparison
sites.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Yes - they put you through to a 'loyalty' department who have the power to
reduce the premium. A strange view of loyalty where you have to demand
it...

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

That may have been the case once - but not now.

I don’t believe it has changed all that much.

And this vast hiking of a premium for no reason sort
of coincides with the arrival of comparison sites.

Which aren't much use for most.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Yes - they put you through to a 'loyalty' department who have the power to
reduce the premium. A strange view of loyalty where you have to demand
it...

Sure, its just more wanking with words.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And this vast hiking of a premium for no reason sort
of coincides with the arrival of comparison sites.

Which aren't much use for most.

Really?

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:41:33 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown
customers, rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Basically because that produces more premium income.

The number that do shop around every renewal
is a small subset of the total who do insure.

That may have been the case once - but not now. And this vast hiking of a
premium for no reason sort of coincides with the arrival of comparison
sites.

IIRC insurers have always hiked the renewel premium, even before price
comparison sites exist. This is why I have rarely renewed an
insurancy policy.

Likely if you had rung them up instead of writing
a letter, they would have reduced the premium
and not enough write letters to make it worth
having anyone deal with those.

Yes - they put you through to a 'loyalty' department who have the power to
reduce the premium. A strange view of loyalty where you have to demand
it...

It's fairly obvious why they do it though.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

In article ,
Mark wrote:
That may have been the case once - but not now. And this vast hiking of a
premium for no reason sort of coincides with the arrival of comparison
sites.

IIRC insurers have always hiked the renewel premium, even before price
comparison sites exist. This is why I have rarely renewed an
insurancy policy.

I was with the same motor insurer for the best part of 30 years, and they
never 'hiked' the premium. Always was (near enough) linked to the current
inflation rate. Same applied to house insurance.

--
*When companies ship Styrofoam, what do they pack it in? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do. Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.


--
djc

On 22/03/2013 22:31, djc wrote:
On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do.

Sadly this is *exactly* right. Marketing makes work for itself and is
prepared to let existing customers go hang. Internally they have two
sort of sales people trappers (new business) and skinners (existing).
The latter get their bonuses for stiffing existing customers.

Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.

I presume they have done their sums correctly and the methodology
actually works since they are all run be MBAs and accountants now.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/03/13 09:38, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/03/2013 22:31, djc wrote:
On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do.

Sadly this is *exactly* right. Marketing makes work for itself and is
prepared to let existing customers go hang. Internally they have two
sort of sales people trappers (new business) and skinners (existing).
The latter get their bonuses for stiffing existing customers.

Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.

I presume they have done their sums correctly and the methodology
actually works since they are all run be MBAs and accountants now.

Who are therefore bright enough to work out what brings the greatest
reward to them personally rather than the company in the long run.
So many companies today seem to be, or are set up, as first and foremost
a financial vehicle. The company is created to look good just long
enough to be sold on to the next bigger fool.

A manically competitive insurance market is a sure sign of a boom going
bust: the premium income is instant cash flow, the claims paid later.

In the long run, it has to self-correct. Once everyone is swapping
insurer every year, retaining good customers will start to look
attractive, but it will be much harder to build a reputation that way
than to have lost it.



--
djc

"djc" wrote in message
...
On 23/03/13 09:38, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/03/2013 22:31, djc wrote:
On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do.

Sadly this is *exactly* right. Marketing makes work for itself and is
prepared to let existing customers go hang. Internally they have two
sort of sales people trappers (new business) and skinners (existing).
The latter get their bonuses for stiffing existing customers.

Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.

I presume they have done their sums correctly and the methodology
actually works since they are all run be MBAs and accountants now.

Who are therefore bright enough to work out what brings the greatest
reward to them personally rather than the company in the long run.
So many companies today seem to be, or are set up, as first and foremost a
financial vehicle.

Insurance has been like that for a hell of a long time now.

Its been about what you can earn on the premiums before
you have to pay claims for a hell of a long time now.

The company is created to look good just long enough to be sold on to the
next bigger fool.

A manically competitive insurance market is a sure sign of a boom going
bust:

Its more a sign of the boom having already gone bust
and what they could earn on the premium income before
it is paid out on claims no longer being anything like it was.

the premium income is instant cash flow, the claims paid later.

And what can be earned on that cash in the mean time.

In the long run, it has to self-correct.

Yes, just when the investment returns plummet,
insurance premiums have rise or they go broke.

Once everyone is swapping insurer every year,

That will never happen.

retaining good customers will start to look attractive,

But whether there are more of those than those who just
pay whatever the insurance company charges renewal wise
is MUCH harder to say with motor insurance particularly
when they already slug those with a lousy record much
more than those who dont make any claims.

but it will be much harder to build a reputation that way than to have
lost it.

I doubt too many even consider reputation
at all anymore, particularly with so many
insurance companys changing hands so often.

Even with the ones that dont, I bet most of those
who buy insurance just assume they all do that often.

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 22/03/2013 22:31, djc wrote:
On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to
cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do.

Sadly this is *exactly* right. Marketing makes work for itself and is
prepared to let existing customers go hang. Internally they have two sort
of sales people trappers (new business) and skinners (existing). The
latter get their bonuses for stiffing existing customers.

Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.

I presume they have done their sums correctly and the methodology actually
works since they are all run be MBAs and accountants now.

It would be interesting to see the real figures.

Its hard to believe that massively increasing the amount of
labor involved in a renewal is justified, but presumably it
must be if so many just pay whatever the renewal asks for.

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 09:38:09 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/03/2013 22:31, djc wrote:
On 22/03/13 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Hawkins wrote:
Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l
LS Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193 This year, with no change to cover
and no claims, their written offer is £339 - a whopping 75% increase.

I would like to know why they prefer to go for new unknown customers,
rather than keep their good existing ones happy.

Because they are all run by marketing people. They get a bigger bonus
for bringing in new business so that's what they do.

Sadly this is *exactly* right. Marketing makes work for itself and is
prepared to let existing customers go hang. Internally they have two
sort of sales people trappers (new business) and skinners (existing).
The latter get their bonuses for stiffing existing customers.

Somehow it woukdn't
do as much for their career to retain loyal customers and spend less on
marketing.

I presume they have done their sums correctly and the methodology
actually works since they are all run be MBAs and accountants now.

As it's more expensive to attract new customers then it's necessary to
rip-off existing customers to make this approach work.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Its not just motor insurance it seems to be on everything these days. one
seems to be expected to barter. I suspect in most cases playing one company
off against another could reduce costs even more.They rely on inertia to get
them at least enough mugs who will pay the higher costs to allow them to
appear flexible to the others .
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim Hawkins" wrote in message
...
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235
!
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word
that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present
policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated
'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?
If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

On 22/03/2013 08:23, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its not just motor insurance it seems to be on everything these days. one
seems to be expected to barter. I suspect in most cases playing one company
off against another could reduce costs even more.They rely on inertia to get
them at least enough mugs who will pay the higher costs to allow them to
appear flexible to the others .
Brian


I suppose it could be argued that the high "renewal" prices are the real
ones; ie the amount the companies need to charge for their business
model; and that the initial premium is a loss leader to attract new
business.

--
David

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
On 22/03/2013 08:23, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its not just motor insurance it seems to be on everything these days.
one seems to be expected to barter. I suspect in most cases playing
one company off against another could reduce costs even more.They rely
on inertia to get them at least enough mugs who will pay the higher
costs to allow them to appear flexible to the others .
Brian


I suppose it could be argued that the high "renewal" prices are the real
ones; ie the amount the companies need to charge for their business
model; and that the initial premium is a loss leader to attract new
business.

That would only hold water if the price increase bore some relation to
inflation, etc. Since it doesn't, it's a scam - pure and simple.

--
*I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 22/03/2013 14:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 22/03/2013 08:23, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its not just motor insurance it seems to be on everything these days.
one seems to be expected to barter. I suspect in most cases playing
one company off against another could reduce costs even more.They rely
on inertia to get them at least enough mugs who will pay the higher
costs to allow them to appear flexible to the others .
Brian


I suppose it could be argued that the high "renewal" prices are the real
ones; ie the amount the companies need to charge for their business
model; and that the initial premium is a loss leader to attract new
business.

That would only hold water if the price increase bore some relation to
inflation, etc. Since it doesn't, it's a scam - pure and simple.

Well, no - *if* the initial premium was genuinely a loss leader, then
the difference between that and the year 2 price would have nothing to
do with inflation.
--
David

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
I suppose it could be argued that the high "renewal" prices are the
real ones; ie the amount the companies need to charge for their
business model; and that the initial premium is a loss leader to
attract new business.

That would only hold water if the price increase bore some relation to
inflation, etc. Since it doesn't, it's a scam - pure and simple.

Well, no - *if* the initial premium was genuinely a loss leader, then
the difference between that and the year 2 price would have nothing to
do with inflation.

Yes - but this thread is really about those who have been with a company
for some time.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Lobster wrote:
On 22/03/2013 08:23, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its not just motor insurance it seems to be on everything these days.
one seems to be expected to barter. I suspect in most cases playing
one company off against another could reduce costs even more.They rely
on inertia to get them at least enough mugs who will pay the higher
costs to allow them to appear flexible to the others .
Brian


I suppose it could be argued that the high "renewal" prices are the real
ones; ie the amount the companies need to charge for their business
model; and that the initial premium is a loss leader to attract new
business.

That would only hold water if the price increase bore some relation to
inflation, etc.

Its not inflation that matters with that, its their total claims history
and what they can earn on the premiums before they pay the claims.

Since it doesn't, it's a scam - pure and simple.

Maybe. Or the industry is going down the tubes financially
and needs do to something about it to avoid going broke.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
That would only hold water if the price increase bore some relation to
inflation, etc.

Its not inflation that matters with that, its their total claims history
and what they can earn on the premiums before they pay the claims.

Hence the 'etc'. For buildings insurance, inflation of rebuilding costs is
an important part of the premium.

Since it doesn't, it's a scam - pure and simple.

Maybe. Or the industry is going down the tubes financially
and needs do to something about it to avoid going broke.

If they go all out to get new customers by heavy discounting who then move
the next year when the premium goes up by an unreasonable amount instead
of valuing long term good customers, they deserve to go broke.

--
*WHY IS IT CALLED TOURIST SEASON IF WE CAN'T SHOOT AT THEM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jim Hawkins" wrote in message
...
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.
On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235
!
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word
that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present
policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated
'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?
If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?


Had a strange one. Received renewal quote of £378 in December from RAC
Services, automatic renewal. In mid January when it was due I checked the
website to download policy etc. and see that they have charged £429. Phone
call to them and most apologetic, they agree renewal price was £378 and
cannot explain why it has been charged at £429. At least refunded on card
straight away.
Got a new car at end of Feb, guess who I didn't insure it with.







--
Claim nothing: Enjoy
David: NorthWest England

On 21/03/2013 23:44, Jim Hawkins wrote:
Can't find a suitable newsgroup, so please forgive me asking here...

Last year, fully comp insurance from Direct Line on my 2002 Vectra 1.8l LS
Estate, with 9 years NCB, was £193
This year, with no change to cover and no claims, their written offer is
£339 - a whopping 75% increase.

It is a try on.

On ringing them to ask why, I was transferred to someone who proceeded
to look up my account and then said he could approve a reduction to £235 !
The snag was that he said that he could not confirm this in writing - I
would
have to allow the renewal to go ahead as received, and accept his word that
the charge would be reduced to £235.
Luckily I have a week or two to decide what to do before the present policy
expires.

But has anyone else met this business of offering a highly inflated 'quote'
and hoping the punter won't object ?
If so, and they agreed, did the insurer live up to the promise ?

Put it in writing if you want the business usually works. Failing that
get another decent quote and challenge them to match it or if it is good
enough and from a reputable company jump ship write and tell them why.
It won't do any good though unless we all do it.

You should have learnt by now that customer loyalty is punished and
exploited to the full by "customer care". You have to be serially
disloyal to get the best deals and most people cannot be bothered.

It is a classic what you measure and reward gets controlled problem.
Sales staff are rewarded with bonuses for bringing in new business but
not for keeping old customers on board.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown