Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH

On 20/11/2014 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


I used Gripfil Original to re-fix quarry tiles to a concrete base. It's
a front path so gets heavy use. Been fine for a couple of years now

On 20/11/2014 17:12, wrote:

Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

How about taking the overhang back to 30mm or 20mm by casting mortar or
concrete underneath it for additional support?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:40:16 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

Just make a neat mix of cement-water and paint it on both surfaces
then bed an new 3:1 cement sand mix when all still wet?

Thanks
AJH

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

Simon.

On 20/11/14 21:04, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 19:40:16 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

Just make a neat mix of cement-water and paint it on both surfaces
then bed an new 3:1 cement sand mix when all still wet?

Yes.

Slurry should be like paint - gloopy.

You will get a bond more or less as strong as your substrate, possibly
stronger (which is why 3:1 is not normally used for brickwork, because
the bricks crack in favour of the joint).

On 20/11/14 21:19, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

Now we're getting serious!

I've done that when patching screed and the patch is only 10mm thick.

If the OP did that, the slab will shear its face off before the bond fails.

In article ,
sm_jamieson writes:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

You can make the slurry with just SBR and cement.
You can also add a small amount of SBR into the water for the
mortar mix. These will give the mortar some tensile strength.
Just make sure you never want to take it apart again later ;-)
You can use exterior PVA instead of SBR (SBR will be better if
it gets soaking wet).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:34:23 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 21:19, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond..

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

Now we're getting serious!

I've done that when patching screed and the patch is only 10mm thick.

If the OP did that, the slab will shear its face off before the bond fails.

I chucked some left over SBR + glass fibre reinforced screed (i.e. no stones in it) into a plastic storage box and the result is an extremely "solid" (non-scientific term) lump of matter. In case you are wondering, I used this mix to bridge a gap in the underlying concrete so I wanted it as strong as possible !

Simon.

On 20/11/2014 21:57, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
sm_jamieson writes:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

You can make the slurry with just SBR and cement.
You can also add a small amount of SBR into the water for the
mortar mix. These will give the mortar some tensile strength.
Just make sure you never want to take it apart again later ;-)
You can use exterior PVA instead of SBR (SBR will be better if
it gets soaking wet).


Interesting that SBR and PVA behave quite differently in a mortar.
Without constant stirring, SBR will drop out of the mix, suggesting that
the liquid phase of the mortar goes its own way once it's on the surface.

On Friday, November 21, 2014 8:47:46 AM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 20/11/2014 21:57, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
sm_jamieson writes:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:40:20 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 20/11/14 17:12, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH


What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?

You can make the slurry with just SBR and cement.
You can also add a small amount of SBR into the water for the
mortar mix. These will give the mortar some tensile strength.
Just make sure you never want to take it apart again later ;-)
You can use exterior PVA instead of SBR (SBR will be better if
it gets soaking wet).


Interesting that SBR and PVA behave quite differently in a mortar.
Without constant stirring, SBR will drop out of the mix, suggesting that
the liquid phase of the mortar goes its own way once it's on the surface.

Yes, you don't really notice that with SBR screed as screed is so dry - the whole lot just goes a bit gluey.
Simon.

In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Interesting that SBR and PVA behave quite differently in a mortar.
Without constant stirring, SBR will drop out of the mix, suggesting that
the liquid phase of the mortar goes its own way once it's on the surface.

Exterior grade PVA (which is really EVA, not PVA) chemically bonds with
the cement as it sets, and this is also what makes the EVA waterproof.
EVA is not waterproof by itself, only when used in mortar mixes with
cement.

I have less experience with SBR, and I don't think it chemically bonds
with the cement so much as just glues it together, but it's waterproof
by itself. PVA will behave in the same way, but is not waterproof - it
slowly dissolves in water, so won't work long term in wet cement.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote in message
...
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

Cut 40 mm off one edge of the slab and have a 10mm overhang instead.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:19:43 -0800 (PST), sm_jamieson
wrote:

What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?


OK this is what I have done, painted both surfaces with a cement-SBR
slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see
how it survives.

I added some shingle to the remaining mortar and have used it to
repair a pot hole on the edge between two cast in situ roadways just
to see how it fairs.

AJH

On 22/11/14 20:12, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:19:43 -0800 (PST), sm_jamieson
wrote:

What *I* would do is paint the slab and the base with a cement slurry
immediate prior to using a 3:1 mix. That will get a *very* strong bond.

My old man's trick - never failed me yet for awkward jobs, like end
bricks dropping off walls and things like that...

Add some SBR to the slurry for extra stickiness ?


OK this is what I have done, painted both surfaces with a cement-SBR
slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see
how it survives.

Like a block of iron if my experiences are anything to go by!

I added some shingle to the remaining mortar and have used it to
repair a pot hole on the edge between two cast in situ roadways just
to see how it fairs.

On 23/11/14 16:47, Phil L wrote:
wrote in message
...

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981



I have - in the south east. Clearly a regional term.

wrote in message
...

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 5:12:46 PM UTC, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable stronger adhesive than ordinary
cement pug to re fix an exterior step which consists of a standard
450mm square slab cemented to a concrete block base? The problem seems
to be the 50mm overhang presents just sufficient leverage to break the
bond when a heavy footfall is on the edge.

AJH

Could be connected to "pugging" the material found in between joists for sound deadening ,,,

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:47:29 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981


It's not my trade but is what the brickies call it in Surrey-Sussex
area.

AJH

On 23/11/14 17:46, wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:47:29 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981


It's not my trade but is what the brickies call it in Surrey-Sussex
area.

AJH

Sussex too for me... Well, East Sussex to be exact!

On 23/11/2014 17:46, wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:47:29 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981


It's not my trade but is what the brickies call it in Surrey-Sussex
area.

AJH

The term pug mill is standard in the world of clay/pottery. Nowadays
often a machine that you can feed in mixed "a bit dry" and "a bit wet"
clay and hopefully get a sausage of even, good consistency clay ready
for use. Somewhat similar to an over-sized mincer/sausage maker.

--
Rod

"polygonum" wrote in message ...

On 23/11/2014 17:46, wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:47:29 -0000, "Phil L"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

slurry and then made the pug with 3:1 sand:cement and SBR. We'll see

Pug?

You mentioned this in your OP and I assumed it was a typo, I've never
heard
of 'pug' and I've been in the building game since leaving school in 1981


It's not my trade but is what the brickies call it in Surrey-Sussex
area.

AJH

The term pug mill is standard in the world of clay/pottery. Nowadays often
a machine that you can feed in mixed "a bit dry" and "a bit wet" clay and
hopefully get a sausage of even, good consistency clay ready for use.
Somewhat similar to an over-sized mincer/sausage maker.


Yup - I have a Pug Mill (pottery type) sitting under my welding bench
waiting to be fixed - been there years

Pug is the standard term with builders round here for mortar.

Andrew