On 03/11/2014 22:32, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 14:02:25 -0000, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 13:50:43 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:


Your body is actually very resilient and can adjust blood flow to
make heat go anywhere it wants.

Not that resilient, plenty have died from the cold.

Alledgedly. People also alledgedly die of old age.

I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow. My feet go cold and
numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm up again.

and then your brain freezes and you post to usenet ;-)

I've never had a problem with my brain not working when I'm cold. Or
drunk for that matter, maybe some people have weak brains.

Maybe the problem is not knowing that your brain isn't working.

Well I have no harm come to me, my hands and feet work perfectly, and
I'm always going off in the cold.

That's unusual, the cold normally keeps things fresh.

On Monday, 3 November 2014 22:53:16 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 22:41:56 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Uncle Peter wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Your body is actually very resilient and can adjust
blood flow to make heat go anywhere it wants.

Not that resilient, plenty have died from the cold.

Alledgedly.

No allegedly about it. The Nazis even killed them
that way deliberately to work out the detail.

If I placed you in liquid nitrogen I could kill you from cold. But natural cold doesn't kill. We've evolved to live on our planet.

Scot of teh antartic ieds of natural cold.
My grandfather was paralised after falling from a mine sweeper off teh cost of scotland in 1917, the see was natural cold.


People also alledgedly die of old age.

Irrelevant to whether the cold can in fact kill you.

It's completely relevant. Both are things which don't kill.

Cold and age both kill.

This is why they use those silver foil 'blankets' on people.

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver.

Bull****. I start to shiver when its just too cold for long enough
with not enough clothes on with a room temp of 10C.

That sentence is very mixed up.

Nope.

What temperature is the room,

10C, as I said.

how long are you in it,

For hours, all day in fact and got that in the early evening.

and what are you wearing?

Cord pants, boots and sox, T shirt and sweat top and a fleece on top of
that.

Once I started shivering I added a second fleece top on top of everything.

Anyway, by 2 degrees, I meant a 2 degree drop in body temperature, I
wasn't referring to ambient temperature.

I didn't get any body temp drop at all and shivered
anyway because I didn't have enough clothes on.

This (along with reduced blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells
becoming active) prevents it going much further.

Bull****, particularly when there is a decent wind blowing.

You do know what warm blooded means don't you?

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

You need to lose 17C to die.

Bull****.

It's true.

Its bull****. And we know that because the ****ing nazis
deliberately killed people that way to work out the detail.

It's a scientific fact that you die at around 20C body temperature.

Its nothing like as black and white as that.

And they have actually found people (including a baby) with a lower
temperature than that and still alive.

So your original claim is just plain wrong.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood to
them to prevent frostbite.

And plenty get chilblains and frostbite.

I don't.

I don't either, but that doesn't alter the fact that plenty do.

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter.

Bull****. Try going for a walk when its -20C and see the
difference it makes, or chopping up some firewood etc.

I've been in the cold plenty times, and if not active I just shiver. No
big deal.

Irrelevant to your stupid claim that being active doesn't matter.

Shivering replaces active, it's the same thing,

Bull****.

It's what shivering is for, it uses your muscles to generate heat,

Yes.

just as though you were running.

Nothing like in fact.

You get a MUCH better result by running or
chopping wood than you ever do by shivering.

your muscles are moving.

Much less when shivering instead of chopping firewood etc.

Wrong.

Nope.

Your muscles will shiver as much strength as they have,

Even sillier than you usually manage.

you can't chop firewood with more power than your muscles have.

Shivering doesn't use anything like as much strength.

You also have reduced blood flow to the surface (all of you,
not just your fingers and toes and other sticky out things),
and brown fat cells which generate heat directly from calories.

And if you are actually stupid enough to be stark naked in a gale
at -20C and just stand there, you will be dead quite quickly.

Wrong.

Nope. The ****ing nazis proved that by doing that deliberately.

I always thought as a kid that all this "wrap up warm" was a load of
nonsense, so I tried stuff like snowball fights with no gloves, then going
cycling in winter in the snow with no shirt, and swimming in icy lakes.

Plenty have done all that, even swimming in holes in the ice
etc, but if you stay in that water for too long, you will die.

The nazis proved that by killing people deliberately that way.

I disproved the bull**** that everyone just believes and passes on like
utter ignorant morons.

The nazis proved that you don't have a ****ing clue about the basics.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:29:25 -0000, Johny B Good
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 +0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents
it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood
to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when
very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's not
fingers and toes?

In Uncle Peter's case, I'd imagine it would be his dickhead.

Absolutely impossible,

Bull****.

that area has the best blood flow of all your body parts.

Bull****. The heart alone leaves it for dead.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:10:31 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:50:56 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:05:33 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:

Bod wrote

Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, .
You might shiver if you were naked, but the
shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull****
and he should be sent to the funny farm, but is
there an element of truth in what he said?....

Nope. Its certainly possible to be quite active when
naked in -20C air and do fine, but just standing there
naked and shivering wont let you survive for long.

Active or not it doesn't matter. Shivering replaces active, it's the
same thing, your muscles are moving. You also have reduced blood flow
to the surface (all of you, not just your fingers and toes and other
sticky out things), and brown fat cells which generate heat directly
from calories.

Yup, which leads to frostbite on your extremities.

Your body won't allow that if you have a reasonably fit body.

Bull****. Happens all the time with the extremely fit on Everest etc.

Then they clearly weren't fit.

Corse they were. Your claim is pig ignorant drivel, as always from you.

I've gone hillwalking barefoot in the snow.

Try climbing Everest in bare feet and see how long your toes last.

They'd be fine.

Wrong, as always.

My feet go cold and numb at first, then eventually they go red and warm
up
again.

Didn't happen with those that got frostbite on Everest.

Wimps.

Fact.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:14:59 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active) prevents
it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase blood
to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when
very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important.

Bull****. That's what you lose to frostbite, for a reason.

What reason is that then?

The body sacrifices that stuff so it doesn't end up dead.

Your "vital organs" are inside you and much warmer anyway.

Try seeing what happens when your core body temp drops significantly.

You shiver harder.

And you die eventually.

Try shoving just your hand in a tub of cold water right now. Leave it
in there for a while, your hand will go red.

Now try spending the night in the freezer naked
and see how long your fingers and toes last.

I've more or less done that.

Pigs arse you have.

If your whole body is cold, then you are LESS likely to have numb toes.

Numbness has nothing whatever to do with frostbite.

Numb fingers/toes occurs when most of you is warm but you have exposed
fingers/toes.

Wrong, as always.

The easiest way for your body to conserve heat is just to keep the blood
in the warm bits.

And that's why you get frostbite of the extremitys, stupid.

That's MORE blood to protect it.

Doesn't explain why some get frostbite on Everest, stupid.

They're pussies.

Wrong, as always. They get the result of the basic physics.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:17:05 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:08:58 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:49, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:14:23 -0000, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Friday, 31 October 2014 04:56:48 UTC, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should
be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

You could always get him to prove it, as in try it post a vid. to
youtube.
They say that as you approach Hyperthermia you start to feel warm/hot
and remove your cloths.
Of course -20C air doesn't make you cold unless you're actually
exposed to it.

My comment to Bod which has been missed out completely in this thread
was that air is nowhere near as cooling as water. The conversation
was
originally about dry air at -20C, which I said was nothing like even
cool water for cooling you down.

No, you have previously stated that anyone could sleep out in snow all
night when the temperature was minus 20 and only wearing jeans and a
tee
shirt.
I can produce the email where you said that, if you wish.

Yes, and? How does that contradict what I just said? That situation
does
not involve being in water.

As for the jeans and tshirt, nobody can get cold when dressed.

Must explain why some have died of hypothermia when dressed.

Wimps,

Wrong, as always.

I'm glad they're out of the gene pool.

They mostly do that after procreating, so arent out of the gene pool,
stupid.

Anyway, they always say people die of "hypothermia" or "old age", when
what it really means is they can't be bothered finding the true cause of
death.

Its obvious what the cause of death is if you're dead in a snow drift,
stupid.

Jeans and tshirt are quite warm clothes.

Must be why they climb Everest wearing just jeans and a tshirt and no
boots.

Wimps.

Any 2 year old could leave that pathetic excuse for a troll for dead.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:19:41 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:17:25 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 12:08, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:56:31 -0000, Bod wrote:

On 31/10/2014 11:48, Uncle Peter wrote:
2 degrees is required to MAKE you shiver. This (along with reduced
blood flow to your skin and brown fat cells becoming active)
prevents
it
going much further. You need to lose 17C to die.

My fingers don't mind the cold, they in fact go RED to increase
blood
to
them to prevent frostbite.

How can that be!? Your blood reduces flow to your extremities when
very
cold, to protect your vital organs.

Your fingers and toes are more important. Your "vital organs" are
inside you and much warmer anyway. Try shoving just your hand in a
tub
of cold water right now. Leave it in there for a while, your hand
will
go red. That's MORE blood to protect it.

Tell me! what parts of the body tend to get frostbite first if it's
not
fingers and toes?

Nothing does if you're fit and healthy.

Must be why the fit and healthy get frostbite climbing Everest.

Wimps.

Any 2 year old could leave that pathetic excuse for a troll for dead.

Shutting off your extremities is ****ing stupid.

Beats dying.

Having no fingers and toes means you won't survive in the future, as you
can't hunt for food anymore.

Others can tho and you dont normally
lose all your fingers and toes anyway.

You need those to walk on, therefore they are as important as your
"vital organs".

Even more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Do you actually have a point?

You obviously can't do any better
than that pathetically hoary old line.

How do you think you're going to catch your next meal if you can't walk?

You dont lose all capability of walking if you get frostbite.

You'll find they are more likely to get blood flow if you're using them
too.

Yes, most of those that do get frostbite of their extremitys
get that at night when they arent using them. Not always tho.

They're wimps.

You're a pathetic excuse for a troll.

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.



[1]
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ld...uisis21994.pdf



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.



[1]
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ld...uisis21994.pdf

I break the recommended survival time rules regularly, by a huge amount.

--
Women are like dog ****, the older they get the easier they are to pick up.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.



[1]
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ld...uisis21994.pdf

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

--
A hard-on doesn't count as personal growth.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:54:35 -0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Calories prevent running out of heat producing energy.

--
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

On Friday, 7 November 2014 16:19:58 UTC, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:54:35 -0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Calories prevent running out of heat producing energy.


How do they do that ?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...e-died-2852677

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:43:51 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.

And protecting your fingers.

--
Impeccable, adjective: something which cannot be destroyed by the beak of a parrot. Scientists have yet to discover such a substance.

On 07/11/2014 19:47, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:43:51 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other
than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10
degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.

And protecting your fingers.

Which reduces the heat to your vital organs quicker.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10 degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.



[1]
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/microsites/ld...uisis21994.pdf

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

Like hell it does when humans drink lots of it in very cold weather.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:54:35 -0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he should
be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and
at -20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other
than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10
degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Calories prevent running out of heat producing energy.

Not if its cold enough and you wouldn't
last thru the night if you werent blotto.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:43:51 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other
than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10
degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.

And protecting your fingers.

Not when the body dies and the fingers die with it once the heart stops.

On 07/11/2014 19:47, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:43:51 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other
than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10
degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.

And protecting your fingers.

For a short time, but killing you quicker.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 00:36:32 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 07/11/2014 19:47, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:43:51 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 07/11/2014 15:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:57:18 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

On 31/10/2014 04:56, Bod wrote:
Uncle Peter made this incredible statement:

"This is a fact. -20C air does not make you cold, . You might
shiver
if you were naked, but the shivering will stop you getting any
colder".

To me, it sounds like he's talking absolute bull**** and he
should be
sent to the funny farm, but is there an element of truth in what he
said?....Anyone know?

Its ******** obviously... (what else would you expect given the
source?)

However its complicated by a number of factors to the extent that
someone fit and active and able to move about, might survive for a
reasonably long period (hours rather than days) even if naked and at
-20
air temperature - especially if in a dry air environment with with no
wind chill. Add some solar IR gain and that will also help greatly.

However nude with full exposure to the air, and no movement (other
than
shivering) and you are down to a couple of hours predicted survival
time
[1].

For someone elderly sat indoors in a poorly heated home even 10
degrees
could prove fatal.

Heavy alcohol consumption and exposure is also often fatal at higher
temperatures.

Alcohol prevents frostbite.

It can also cause death. The drunk imbiber feels perfectly warm as
alcohol is a source of quick and cheap calories. So he might lie down
and go to sleep. Good chance then of freezing to death without
noticing.

Even worse than that - it acts as a vasodilator - increasing blood flow
to the body surface and extremities (making one feel warmer) but also
increasing the actual rate of heat loss.

And protecting your fingers.

For a short time, but killing you quicker.

Only if you're a wimp.

--
Hey diddle diddle the cat took a piddle,
All over the bedside clock.
The little dog laughed to see such fun.
Then died of electric shock.

On 08/11/2014 10:02, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 00:36:32 -0000, John Rumm

wrote:

For a short time, but killing you quicker.

Only if you're a wimp.

You are Dr. Drivel AICMFP.

Careful, he might start with the "poetry" next...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/