On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:25:45 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL with the
unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or Toyota Derby,
then I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management with 2010
Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.

I'm not the one trying to make any comparisons here. But, if you really
insist, I don't think the hamstrung incompetence of 1970s nationalised
industry ever stood much of a chance against the sheer belligerence and
militant troublemaking of 1970s unions.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:25:45 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL with the
unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or Toyota Derby,
then I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management with
2010 Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.

I'm not the one trying to make any comparisons here. But, if you really
insist, I don't think the hamstrung incompetence of 1970s nationalised
industry ever stood much of a chance against the sheer belligerence and
militant troublemaking of 1970s unions.

Have you considered just why the majority of the UK motor industry was
nationalised?

I'll give you a clue. For the same reasons some of the banks were
nationalised. And by a right wing government.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:21:54 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm not the one trying to make any comparisons here. But, if you really
insist, I don't think the hamstrung incompetence of 1970s nationalised
industry ever stood much of a chance against the sheer belligerence and
militant troublemaking of 1970s unions.

Have you considered just why the majority of the UK motor industry was
nationalised?

I'll give you a clue. For the same reasons some of the banks were
nationalised.

Apart from no banks ever having been properly "nationalised", I don't
think any of the UK's banks have ever suffered particularly badly from ho-
hum products failing to compete particularly well in a domestic market
starting to buy large numbers of imported banking services.

And by a right wing government.

Since when were Harold Wilson and Tony Benn "right wing"?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

It's interesting that those same unions in say the
car industry - with many of the same employees
- seem to get along just fine with overseas owners.

But that may be because the union goons got the bums rush

They didn't.

They did actually in the sense that they didn’t get a job with
the new operation. Just like Scargill never did get a job again.

and the union members got one hell of a fright when the
operation went bust and got a clue about how to operate.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Adrian wrote:
If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL with the
unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or Toyota Derby, then
I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management with 2010
Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.


No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.
The best the East Germans could come up withwas the Trabant.
On the other hand, some activities need to within the remit of the state.
Eg health care, air/seaports and other strategic industries.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The vast majority of workers are not stupid and
will not vote for redundancy if given the the facts

Didn't work like that with the coal miners and in the car plants.

You really are a fool.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Tim Streater wrote

And of course you'd not even think some of those 'bully
boy' tactics were forced on the unions by some employers?

Must be why, in the 50s & 60s, there were all those comedy
programmes about industrial relations (Rag Trade, anyone?).
We all laughed, because there was more than a grain of truth
about them, just as we laughed at Basil Fawlty. Today, people
would wonder what you were on about if you tried a comedy
show based on management/unions relationships.

Yes. The Government got exactly what Thatcher
etc wanted. Control over the workforce by fear.

**** all of the workforce was controlled by fear.

And the other result they wanted - depress average earnings

Another bare faced lie.

while allowing those towards the top of the pile go through the roof.

Nothing to do with what the govt did then, that happened
right thruout the entire modern first and second world.

It's called capitalism, red in tooth and claw.

Its actually called mindless union bull****.

Oh - and to shift overall taxation as a proportion
of income to the poorest in the land.

Another bare faced lie with the real poorest,
those whose entire income is govt welfare.

On 10/11/2014 16:43, harryagain wrote:

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

It's just harry being a numpty, but :

Mir, various Soyuz rockets, Caspian Sea monster to start with.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Adrian wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL
with the unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or
Toyota Derby, then I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management
with 2010 Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.

I'm not the one trying to make any comparisons here. But, if you
really insist, I don't think the hamstrung incompetence of 1970s
nationalised industry ever stood much of a chance against the
sheer belligerence and militant troublemaking of 1970s unions.

Have you considered just why the majority
of the UK motor industry was nationalised?

Yep, the ****ing unions had driven them into the ground.

I'll give you a clue. For the same reasons
some of the banks were nationalised.

Bull****.

And by a right wing government.

Bull****.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

No - they leave it to you.

--
*When you get a bladder infection urine trouble.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:43:42 +0000, harryagain wrote:

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

Apart from anything else, just remind me who first put a satellite into
space, a living creature into space, a man into space, a space station
into orbit...?

harryagain wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Adrian wrote

If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL
with the unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or
Toyota Derby, then I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management
with 2010 Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

Bull**** with a decent modern welfare system and the NHS alone.

And there were plenty of notable inventions in
Bismark's era when socialism got started too.

The best the East Germans could come up withwas the Trabant.

West Germany is in fact a socialist economy.

On the other hand, some activities need to within the remit of the state.
Eg health care, air/seaports and other strategic industries.

In article , harryagain
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Adrian
wrote:
If you're somehow trying to compare the unions in 1970s BL with the
unions in 2010s Nissan Sunderland or Honda Swindon or Toyota Derby,
then I think you might actually be proving Tim's point.

And if you're somehow trying to compare the '70s BL management with
2010 Nissan etc you might actually prove my point.


No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

sputnik?


The best the East Germans could come up withwas the Trabant. On the other
hand, some activities need to within the remit of the state. Eg health
care, air/seaports and other strategic industries.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 10/11/2014 16:43, harryagain wrote:
No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

I struggle to think of any economy that has invented anything. People
(and, arguably, some animals) invent.

--
Rod

polygonum wrote
harryagain wrote

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

I struggle to think of any economy that has invented anything.

Pretty obvious really with all of taxation, welfare, the NHS etc.

People (and, arguably, some animals) invent.

That's just hair splitting.

"Rod Speed" writes:

polygonum wrote
harryagain wrote

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

I struggle to think of any economy that has invented anything.

Pretty obvious really with all of taxation, welfare, the NHS etc.

People (and, arguably, some animals) invent.

That's just hair splitting.

I think that no totalitarian economy is as good at invention as one
where there's some freedom of thought.

Limited socialism, limited fascism, probably have their place, at some
times and in some places.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Windmill wrote
Rod Speed wrote
polygonum wrote
harryagain wrote

No socialist economy has ever made a notable invention.

I struggle to think of any economy that has invented anything.

Pretty obvious really with all of taxation, welfare, the NHS etc.

People (and, arguably, some animals) invent.

That's just hair splitting.

I think that no totalitarian economy is as good at invention
as one where there's some freedom of thought.

That is very arguable indeed. Adolf did pretty well invention
wise essentially because he was prepared to fund it.

Limited socialism, limited fascism, probably have
their place, at some times and in some places.

In fact EVERYWHERE has a mix of socialism and capitalism,
even HongKong before it was handed back to China was,
most obviously with the public education system and the
very minimal welfare system there.

Not so clear with limited fascism tho I spose you can
make a case that that is what the west has in wartime.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Is that the sound of puckering arseholes I can hear?

So, was that the Medway Handyvan on twitter then?