On 07/10/2014 09:16, Dennis@home wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:55, polygonum wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:35, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 06/10/2014 20:19, bert wrote:
....
I think that's a big difference. Under the new system the casual
observer whether traffic warden or joe public will not be able to spot
untaxed cars.

The traffic warden will probably have a hand held ANPR device, so that
only leaves Joe Public, who probably wasn't a major source of
information anyway.


I am somewhat surprised that something like a QR code hasn't yet been
pushed onto vehicles - e.g. the VIN plate or as an extra feature f a
numberplate. Then just about any smartphone could easily be used in this
sort of role.


There has been a requirement for the VIN to be visible for a few years
now. Its normally on a bar code on the dash and can be read with a
suitable scanner.

Mine is in plain text.

--
Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 07/10/2014 09:16, Dennis@home wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:55, polygonum wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:35, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 06/10/2014 20:19, bert wrote:
....
I think that's a big difference. Under the new system the casual
observer whether traffic warden or joe public will not be able to spot
untaxed cars.

The traffic warden will probably have a hand held ANPR device, so that
only leaves Joe Public, who probably wasn't a major source of
information anyway.


I am somewhat surprised that something like a QR code hasn't yet been
pushed onto vehicles - e.g. the VIN plate or as an extra feature f a
numberplate. Then just about any smartphone could easily be used in this
sort of role.


There has been a requirement for the VIN to be visible for a few years
now. Its normally on a bar code on the dash and can be read with a
suitable scanner.

Mine is in plain text.

Ditto mine - 2009 Ford Galaxy


--
Chris French

On 07/10/2014 18:18, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 07/10/2014 09:16, Dennis@home wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:55, polygonum wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:35, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here
wrote:
On 06/10/2014 20:19, bert wrote:
....
I think that's a big difference. Under the new system the casual
observer whether traffic warden or joe public will not be able to
spot
untaxed cars.

The traffic warden will probably have a hand held ANPR device, so that
only leaves Joe Public, who probably wasn't a major source of
information anyway.


I am somewhat surprised that something like a QR code hasn't yet been
pushed onto vehicles - e.g. the VIN plate or as an extra feature f a
numberplate. Then just about any smartphone could easily be used in
this
sort of role.


There has been a requirement for the VIN to be visible for a few years
now. Its normally on a bar code on the dash and can be read with a
suitable scanner.

Mine is in plain text.

Ditto mine - 2009 Ford Galaxy


I'll have to check, but think mine is also plain text.

A smartphone might be able to have an ANPR app, but the process of
getting it into a suitable position to see the numberplate(s), and the
possibility of dirt, damage, or whatever making it difficult or
impossible to read make it a less appealing option. A QR code (of
suitable design) has huge redundancy and gets over a lot of damage/dirt
issues. And, being quite small, it would be quite easy to design two
copies into a numberplate and others elsewhere (e.g. by the VIN), which
could make it very easy for an official to grab the data.

(Not saying I want this, but a bit surprised it hasn't already happened.)

I guess the next obvious step is to incorporate some sort of id
accessible by radio - an RFID or even part or the ordinary key remote
system.

--
Rod

On 07/10/2014 18:37, polygonum wrote:
On 07/10/2014 18:18, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 07/10/2014 09:16, Dennis@home wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:55, polygonum wrote:
On 06/10/2014 22:35, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here
wrote:
On 06/10/2014 20:19, bert wrote:
....
I think that's a big difference. Under the new system the casual
observer whether traffic warden or joe public will not be able to
spot
untaxed cars.

The traffic warden will probably have a hand held ANPR device, so
that
only leaves Joe Public, who probably wasn't a major source of
information anyway.


I am somewhat surprised that something like a QR code hasn't yet been
pushed onto vehicles - e.g. the VIN plate or as an extra feature f a
numberplate. Then just about any smartphone could easily be used in
this
sort of role.


There has been a requirement for the VIN to be visible for a few years
now. Its normally on a bar code on the dash and can be read with a
suitable scanner.

Mine is in plain text.

Ditto mine - 2009 Ford Galaxy


I'll have to check, but think mine is also plain text.

A smartphone might be able to have an ANPR app, but the process of
getting it into a suitable position to see the numberplate(s), and the
possibility of dirt, damage, or whatever making it difficult or
impossible to read make it a less appealing option. A QR code (of
suitable design) has huge redundancy and gets over a lot of damage/dirt
issues. And, being quite small, it would be quite easy to design two
copies into a numberplate and others elsewhere (e.g. by the VIN), which
could make it very easy for an official to grab the data.

(Not saying I want this, but a bit surprised it hasn't already happened.)

I think you're wrong about the readibility of QR codes vs numberplates.
It's going to be easier to put a gob of mud over a small QR code than
over the whole plate, and IME numberplates are actually generally easy
to read. The font is designed for this.

On 07/10/2014 18:43, Clive George wrote:

I think you're wrong about the readibility of QR codes vs numberplates.
It's going to be easier to put a gob of mud over a small QR code than
over the whole plate, and IME numberplates are actually generally easy
to read. The font is designed for this.

You might be right that I am wrong! But you do need to position yourself
quite well to see the full numberplate on many vehicles. Especially
those which are curved round, or fitted well off to one side. And only
UK numberplates use that font. A universal QR approach would be able to
read plates from any country.

--
Rod

In message , Jim White
writes
In message om
"Dennis@home" wrote:


[snip]



There has been a requirement for the VIN to be visible for a few years
now. Its normally on a bar code on the dash and can be read with a
suitable scanner.

It might well be a requirement, but Fiat group still persist in putting
the vehicle ident in the boot.
Punto, 500, Panda and Chrysler/Lancia Ypsilon to name but a few.

Alongside the bonnet release catch in some cases.
--
bert

On 07/10/2014 16:18, charles wrote:
In article , Nightjar
\cpb\@ insert my surname here wrote:
.....
I am sure I recall driving over a new bridge next to the girder bridge,
although I haven't been that way for a while now. Has that been replaced
as well? Nevertheless, my point remains that the 'temporary' girder
bridge lasted the best part of 60 years.

Look at wiki for the whole story

Very pretty bridge. Google maps obviously needs to be updated:

http://goo.gl/maps/kEduZ
http://goo.gl/maps/rP096

income tax was a temporary thing to pay for the Napoleonic War.

That version was temporary, being abolished in 1816. It is the temporary
tax of 1842 that has stayed with us until today.

--
Colin Bignell

On 07/10/2014 18:37, polygonum wrote:
....
A smartphone might be able to have an ANPR app, but the process of
getting it into a suitable position to see the numberplate(s), and the
possibility of dirt, damage, or whatever making it difficult or
impossible to read make it a less appealing option. A QR code (of
suitable design) has huge redundancy and gets over a lot of damage/dirt
issues. And, being quite small, it would be quite easy to design two
copies into a numberplate and others elsewhere (e.g. by the VIN), which
could make it very easy for an official to grab the data...

Where they appear on commercial vehicles, QR codes are usually a foot or
more square, which suggests that a small one might not be readable
without getting quite close.


--
Colin Bignell

On 07/10/2014 19:45, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

Where they appear on commercial vehicles, QR codes are usually a foot or
more square, which suggests that a small one might not be readable
without getting quite close.

Which a pedestrian enforcement person of whatever sort would expect to
do. The really big ones are only needed, so far as I understand, to
enable them to be read at great distances.

--
Rod

On 07/10/2014 19:53, polygonum wrote:
On 07/10/2014 19:45, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:

Where they appear on commercial vehicles, QR codes are usually a foot or
more square, which suggests that a small one might not be readable
without getting quite close.

Which a pedestrian enforcement person of whatever sort would expect to
do. The really big ones are only needed, so far as I understand, to
enable them to be read at great distances.


But they probably have hand-held ANPR devices, so don't need a QR code.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 06 Oct 2014 13:51:31 +0100, Bob Henson wrote:

What you're describing is automatically trawling the
database
looking
for clones.

"trawling" to me is a separate process independant of the normal
lookup.

And that's almost certainly not done.

Quite likely, a waste of resources when you can do a simple
comparision during a normal look up and seta flag (and return the
result to the enquirer).

But it's the only way to pick up a cloned car if it's not
otherwise
behaving suspiciously enough to trigger an individual lookup.

er, *ALL* cars passing an ANPR are looked up and the
date/time/location information stored against each number plate.

Every time a vehicle passes an ANPR camera a lookup is done to
see
if it's a "wanted" vehicle, when that look up is done the
date/time/location information is stored against that
registration
mark. Next look up on that registration compares where "it" is
now
against when/where "it" was last seen. If the time bewteen
those two
locations is too short to get between them something "odd" is
going
on...

Yes - and working out if the time between the locations is too
short
is the trawling I'm talking about.

You only need an actual time for fairly adjacent cameras. Any
sensible scroate will pick the registration of the same
make/model/colour of their car that they have seen around the area a
few times. Scroat does not know when the genuine registration goes
off to it's Auntie Jeans in Abredeen. Seen in the Home Counties then
4 hours later in Aberdeen...

What's not done is automatically working it out, and adding it
to the
"wanted" list as a result.

I doubt there is a "wanted" list just a flag (or set of flags) on the
registration marks record.

With the number of cars on the road, are you sure they'll bother to
continuously monitor every car, 24 hours a day, every day of the week,
and get someone to check and action the results?

They collect the data on all vehicles passing ANPR cameras. How often
you pass such a camera and thus have your position both geographic
and temporal recorded is variable.

The computer can very simply compare current position and last
position and set a flag on that registrations record.

Many people will have to be employed to check the results and action
them - you can't just hurl court summonses at people because they
apparently drove a long way in a day according to an arbitrary computer
algorithm.

No one is suggesting that but the status of the "clone" flag can be
sent back to the traffic cops with their live mobile ANPR camera just
like they get told of "no tax", "no insurance", "no MOT", "Wanted",
"Violence", "Firearms", etc etc...

Well, you could, but they won't.

I wouldn't like to bet on it.

There aren't even any cameras round here anyway -

You mean you haven't spotted 'em, I don't think there are any within
15 miles of here but I'm not betting on that either.

... if you stay off the motorway, they'd probably never find you anyway.

Any decent sized town will have ANPR cameras, they may well be
associated with other street furniture like traffic lights. They
don't have to be huge grey and yellow things like GATSOs or the
bright yellow arms holding average speed cameras, those are
deliberately visible. ANPR is decidedly more covert.

Quick google Gruaniad story from 2012 says 5,000 roadside cameras.
There will be more by now... How many and where appears to be a state
secret.

--
Cheers
Dave.

charles wrote:

income tax was a temporary thing to pay for the Napoleonic War.

It'll be great when it's paid off then.

Bill

stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill

On 08/10/14 03:38, Bill Wright wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill
when you actually bother to go off the beaten track, there are dozens of
places where by sheer random coincidence, people simply do not go for
months at a time. if ever.

Even in the middle of cities

--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 08/10/14 03:38, Bill Wright wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill
when you actually bother to go off the beaten track, there are dozens
of places where by sheer random coincidence, people simply do not go
for months at a time. if ever.

Even in the middle of cities

Generally speaking those intent on hanging themselves don't go very far
off the beaten track - only a few metres.
--
bert

On 08/10/2014 15:26, bert wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 08/10/14 03:38, Bill Wright wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill
when you actually bother to go off the beaten track, there are dozens
of places where by sheer random coincidence, people simply do not go
for months at a time. if ever.

Even in the middle of cities

Generally speaking those intent on hanging themselves don't go very far
off the beaten track - only a few metres.

Presumably the choice is influenced by where there is something suitable
to jump off, having tied the noose.

--
Colin Bignell

On 08/10/2014 16:16, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 08/10/2014 15:26, bert wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 08/10/14 03:38, Bill Wright wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill
when you actually bother to go off the beaten track, there are dozens
of places where by sheer random coincidence, people simply do not go
for months at a time. if ever.

Even in the middle of cities

Generally speaking those intent on hanging themselves don't go very far
off the beaten track - only a few metres.

Presumably the choice is influenced by where there is something suitable
to jump off, having tied the noose.


I understood it was usually dogs that find corpses

"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 08/10/14 03:38, Bill Wright wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

Seems neither the police, nor the dog walkers, nor the dogs, nor the
amateur sleuths, noticed a corpse hanging from a tree for several days
in a West London park

The son of a friend of mine hung himself from a tree in a wood near a
popular walk just outside the village. His body remained unnoticed for
several days, until someone heard his phone ringing in his pocket.

Bill
when you actually bother to go off the beaten track, there are dozens of
places where by sheer random coincidence, people simply do not go for
months at a time. if ever.

Even in the middle of cities

Generally speaking those intent on hanging themselves don't go very far
off the beaten track - only a few metres.

Dunno. Without actually checking the stats, I would have thought that
most would do it where they arent likely to be observed and stopped.