Hi All,


As some of my regular readers will remember, I was I/C of Electrics and PA at our church weekend camp recently and a bit concerned about only having 45A main breaker (Turned out i'd remembered wrong - It's only 40A! but we never had an issue.

Anyhow, somebody said the mains distribution was a bit of a mess (a cable with blue 16A connector on and a 13 A cable reel both brought to the marquee and then distributed around using domestic 13A cable reels).

I said that was about as good as it gets, but then got to thinking, at the other camp i'm involved with we generally use something similar to

http://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/32a...ets-2337-p.asp

And then run 16A style cables out to the various points where power is required and just convert to 13A outlets at the very end.

I asked if there might be some budget to buy the necessary "Board" and cables, but looking at the above it seems my guesstimate was seriously under what it might cost.

Does anyone know of similar (reasonable quality) units at a lower price point?

I suppose CPC or TLC might be my friend, but i'm not sure what to search for.

TIA

Chris

In article ,
wrote:

Hi All,


As some of my regular readers will remember, I was I/C of Electrics and
PA at our church weekend camp recently and a bit concerned about only
having 45A main breaker (Turned out i'd remembered wrong - It's only
40A! but we never had an issue.

Anyhow, somebody said the mains distribution was a bit of a mess (a
cable with blue 16A connector on and a 13 A cable reel both brought to
the marquee and then distributed around using domestic 13A cable reels).


I said that was about as good as it gets, but then got to thinking, at
the other camp i'm involved with we generally use something similar to

http://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/32a...ets-2337-p.asp

And then run 16A style cables out to the various points where power is
required and just convert to 13A outlets at the very end.

I asked if there might be some budget to buy the necessary "Board" and
cables, but looking at the above it seems my guesstimate was seriously
under what it might cost.

Does anyone know of similar (reasonable quality) units at a lower price
point?

I suppose CPC or TLC might be my friend, but i'm not sure what to search
for.

How often is this needed? If only once in a while, I'd be inclined to hire
from a film or theatrical etc lighting company. Other benefit is it will
be tested before despatch.

--
*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:18:23 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

wrote:

Stuff about marquee power distribution


How often is this needed? If only once in a while, I'd be inclined to hire

from a film or theatrical etc lighting company. Other benefit is it will

be tested before despatch.



--

*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.



Dave Plowman London SW

To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi Dave, it's only once or twice a year, but even at the prices i've seen I think we'd soon re-coup the capital cost (can't see the lighting company wanting to write invoices for less than £150 even if we could peruade them to deal with such a small customer. But I will look into it.

Cheers

Chris

On 18/07/2014 12:58, wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:18:23 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article
,

wrote:

Stuff about marquee power distribution


How often is this needed? If only once in a while, I'd be inclined
to hire

from a film or theatrical etc lighting company. Other benefit is it
will

be tested before despatch.



--

*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.



Dave Plowman London SW

To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi Dave, it's only once or twice a year, but even at the prices i've
seen I think we'd soon re-coup the capital cost (can't see the
lighting company wanting to write invoices for less than £150 even if
we could peruade them to deal with such a small customer. But I will
look into it.

Perhaps in exchange some limited use of the church hall?

In article ,
wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:18:23 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,

wrote:

Stuff about marquee power distribution


How often is this needed? If only once in a while, I'd be inclined to
hire

from a film or theatrical etc lighting company. Other benefit is it
will

be tested before despatch.

Hi Dave, it's only once or twice a year, but even at the prices i've
seen I think we'd soon re-coup the capital cost (can't see the lighting
company wanting to write invoices for less than £150 even if we could
peruade them to deal with such a small customer. But I will look into
it.

I've hired from a film lighting company for a garden party, and the
charges seemed pretty reasonable to me. Pro cables and fittings designed
for such work are pretty robust and have a long life. Also, 150 quid won't
buy very much high current flexible cable. Which would also need space to
store.
however, I am in London with a good choice of such places reasonably
locally. Transport costs could be high.

--
*I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
...

Hi All,


As some of my regular readers will remember, I was I/C of Electrics and PA
at our church weekend camp recently and a bit concerned about only having
45A main breaker (Turned out i'd remembered wrong - It's only 40A! but we
never had an issue.

Anyhow, somebody said the mains distribution was a bit of a mess (a cable
with blue 16A connector on and a 13 A cable reel both brought to the
marquee and then distributed around using domestic 13A cable reels).

I said that was about as good as it gets, but then got to thinking, at the
other camp i'm involved with we generally use something similar to

http://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/32a...ets-2337-p.asp

And then run 16A style cables out to the various points where power is
required and just convert to 13A outlets at the very end.

I asked if there might be some budget to buy the necessary "Board" and
cables, but looking at the above it seems my guesstimate was seriously
under what it might cost.

Does anyone know of similar (reasonable quality) units at a lower price
point?

I suppose CPC or TLC might be my friend, but i'm not sure what to search
for.

You could make your own similar box for a lot less.

--
Adam

On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:46:03 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:
wrote in message

...



Hi All,





As some of my regular readers will remember, I was I/C of Electrics and PA

at our church weekend camp recently and a bit concerned about only having

45A main breaker (Turned out i'd remembered wrong - It's only 40A! but we

never had an issue.



Anyhow, somebody said the mains distribution was a bit of a mess (a cable

with blue 16A connector on and a 13 A cable reel both brought to the

marquee and then distributed around using domestic 13A cable reels).



I said that was about as good as it gets, but then got to thinking, at the

other camp i'm involved with we generally use something similar to



http://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/32a...ets-2337-p.asp



And then run 16A style cables out to the various points where power is

required and just convert to 13A outlets at the very end.



I asked if there might be some budget to buy the necessary "Board" and

cables, but looking at the above it seems my guesstimate was seriously

under what it might cost.



Does anyone know of similar (reasonable quality) units at a lower price

point?



I suppose CPC or TLC might be my friend, but i'm not sure what to search

for.



You could make your own similar box for a lot less.



--

Adam

Hi Adam,

That is about the descision I had come to.

Thanks

Chris

wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:46:03 PM UTC+1, ARW wrote:


Hi Adam,

That is about the descision I had come to.

Thanks

Chris


It should be a piece of ****. Do you need really the RCD protection and
individual MCBs in the box? If the box is suppled via a 16A RCD protected
supply then you clearly do not.

A waterproof box with one 16A waterproof surface mounted plug and 4 x 16A
surface mounted sockets is all that is needed. Do your own risk assessment
as to the quality of your work. Less than £50. Good luck with it.


--
Adam

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:37:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

It should be a piece of ****.

Agreed but needs a bit of thought. IIRC the supply is 40 A and
presumably has to be extened to the marquee where it will be
distributed.

Think I'd go for Ceeform 63 A connectors and cable for that extension
and rely on the supply cutout. Then have the distribution box 63 A
Ceeform input and 6 x 16 A individually RCBO protected outlets. This
gives diversity should kit on one feed leak a bit and trip it's RCD.
Local distribution using 16 A ceeform with 16 13 adapters on the
end.

Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63 A
extension is long, FSVO "long".

All this stuff would be available from a film/tv lighting supplier as
has been mentioned.

http://www.provisionequipment.tv/
http://www.arrilightingrental.com/

Niether site wants to play properly with my browser, so can't tell
what the hire costs are. There are other smaller companies all over
the country.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:04:05 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:37:34 +0100, ARW wrote:



It should be a piece of ****.



Agreed but needs a bit of thought. IIRC the supply is 40 A and

presumably has to be extened to the marquee where it will be

distributed.



Think I'd go for Ceeform 63 A connectors and cable for that extension

and rely on the supply cutout. Then have the distribution box 63 A

Ceeform input and 6 x 16 A individually RCBO protected outlets. This

gives diversity should kit on one feed leak a bit and trip it's RCD.

Local distribution using 16 A ceeform with 16 13 adapters on the

end.



Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63 A

extension is long, FSVO "long".



All this stuff would be available from a film/tv lighting supplier as

has been mentioned.



http://www.provisionequipment.tv/

http://www.arrilightingrental.com/



Niether site wants to play properly with my browser, so can't tell

what the hire costs are. There are other smaller companies all over

the country.



--

Cheers

Dave.

Thanks for your thoughts Dave, I am having similar thoughts........

The 40A MCB is up the track and feeds a sort of Chalet type afair which has a split load CU doing all the usual domestic stuff and presently also having a 16A
Ceeform for the Marquee feed.

I am thinking of getting this upgraded to 32A Ceeform (& MCB)(don't search for 32A on Google kiddies, the strangest things come up! !:^*)) and running a Ceeform 32A over to the Marquee (mostly, this will run with lower than 16A through it, but i'd like to have the option to draw more if we wanted to, so am thinking 6mm will be the way to go for the cable for a 50 metre run)).

This would then plug (or rather socket onto!) a plug that goes to the input on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each feeding a 16A Ceeform socket (4 to be used to run a 16A lead to each corner of the marquee, and 2 for lighting and 2 spare) There would also be another 16A MCB feeding a number of 13A double sockets (probably 2) for any equipment which needed to be powered where the board is (Probably attached to one of the main poles of the marquee at about 4 foot off the floor).

Questions?

Is 6mm for the main feed adequate? or overkill?

If I go for 6mm and get it in one length, will I be able to lift it when it's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?

Would I be able to lift them?

TIA

Chris

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:37:34 +0100, ARW wrote:

It should be a piece of ****.

Agreed but needs a bit of thought. IIRC the supply is 40 A and
presumably has to be extened to the marquee where it will be
distributed.

Think I'd go for Ceeform 63 A connectors and cable for that extension
and rely on the supply cutout. Then have the distribution box 63 A
Ceeform input and 6 x 16 A individually RCBO protected outlets. This
gives diversity should kit on one feed leak a bit and trip it's RCD.
Local distribution using 16 A ceeform with 16 13 adapters on the
end.

Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63 A
extension is long, FSVO "long".


You might have to use a TT install with two RCDs as per a caravan set up.
All points noted in your post and I like the alternative view.

--
Adam

wrote in message
...
of the main poles of the marquee at about 4 foot off the floor).

Questions?

Is 6mm for the main feed adequate? or overkill?

It sould be fine for 32A. I would have to do calcs for 63A and I would like
to see calcs for 32A.

If I go for 6mm and get it in one length, will I be able to lift it when
it's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?

Would I be able to lift them?

I cannot answer that one as I do not know you:-). The maximum I can carry up
3 flights of stairs is 100m of 16mm T&E (well 6 rolls of it in individual
runs) and I consider that to be hardish work (it's easier than pulling in
180mm 4 core SWA)


Cheers

--
Adam

wrote:

I am thinking of getting this upgraded to 32A Ceeform (& MCB)(don't
search for 32A on Google kiddies, the strangest things come up!

Mainly bus timetables and a film from 2007 - they do say google tailors
their results depending on your previous searches :-)

On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:13:54 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:04:05 PM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:37:34 +0100, ARW wrote:







It should be a piece of ****.







Agreed but needs a bit of thought. IIRC the supply is 40 A and



presumably has to be extened to the marquee where it will be



distributed.







Think I'd go for Ceeform 63 A connectors and cable for that extension



and rely on the supply cutout. Then have the distribution box 63 A



Ceeform input and 6 x 16 A individually RCBO protected outlets. This



gives diversity should kit on one feed leak a bit and trip it's RCD.



Local distribution using 16 A ceeform with 16 13 adapters on the



end.







Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63 A



extension is long, FSVO "long".







All this stuff would be available from a film/tv lighting supplier as



has been mentioned.







http://www.provisionequipment.tv/



http://www.arrilightingrental.com/







Niether site wants to play properly with my browser, so can't tell



what the hire costs are. There are other smaller companies all over



the country.







--



Cheers



Dave.



Thanks for your thoughts Dave, I am having similar thoughts........



The 40A MCB is up the track and feeds a sort of Chalet type afair which has a split load CU doing all the usual domestic stuff and presently also having a 16A

Ceeform for the Marquee feed.



I am thinking of getting this upgraded to 32A Ceeform (& MCB)(don't search for 32A on Google kiddies, the strangest things come up! !:^*)) and running a Ceeform 32A over to the Marquee (mostly, this will run with lower than 16A through it, but i'd like to have the option to draw more if we wanted to, so am thinking 6mm will be the way to go for the cable for a 50 metre run)).



This would then plug (or rather socket onto!) a plug that goes to the input on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each feeding a 16A Ceeform socket (4 to be used to run a 16A lead to each corner of the marquee, and 2 for lighting and 2 spare) There would also be another 16A MCB feeding a number of 13A double sockets (probably 2) for any equipment which needed to be powered where the board is (Probably attached to one of the main poles of the marquee at about 4 foot off the floor).



Questions?



Is 6mm for the main feed adequate? or overkill?



If I go for 6mm and get it in one length, will I be able to lift it when it's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?



Would I be able to lift them?



TIA



Chris

BS 7909 is probably worth a look...

Costs start to add up fast, for how many uses a year?

6mm X 3 core HO7 RNF typically around 4 quid a meter, 50m cable= 200 + connectors.

Plus distribution and additional `borrowable, cables, and of course, testing.

30m 63A SP cable 35 quid a week, save a lot using 32A distribution.

63A 8 X 16A MCB protected 40 quid a week.

http://www.pslx.co.uk/mains_distribution.htm

Find any of the theatre/AV suppliers,( film and TVsuppliers can be ,er, expensive) will be able to help you with similar gear and are used to shipping hires around via courier.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:27:09 -0700 (PDT), Adam Aglionby wrote:

The 40A MCB is up the track and feeds a sort of Chalet type afair
which
has a split load CU doing all the usual domestic stuff and
presently
also having a 16A Ceeform for the Marquee feed.

I am thinking of getting this upgraded to 32A Ceeform (& MCB)

16 A isn't a lot when you hab urns/kettles involved... B-)

This would then plug (or rather socket onto!) a plug that goes to
the input on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each
feeding a
16A Ceeform socket

I don't see any RCD protection. This is outside possibly in the wet.
In the day job any 16 A feed to anywhere is individually RCD
protected.

If I go for 6mm and get it in one length, will I be able to lift
it
when it's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?

Longest 63 A I see at work might be 25 m. You might be able to move
it but carrying any distance would be a sack truck job really.
Generally these cables are kept in the load carrier section of the
generator, hoiked out onto the ground and then the end and cable
dragged to where it needs to be. The coil is rarely moved more than a
few feet.

30m 63A SP cable 35 quid a week, save a lot using 32A distribution.

Only mentioned 63 A so as to be more than ample to cope with the full
40 A supply over an unknown distance. Volt drop and earth loop
impedance. If one went for two TT installs, it would mandate 100 mA
time delayed RCDs. or measuring the spikes performamce at each use.

Now we know the expected load and distance I think a 32 A MCB 32 A
cable for the marquee feed with individual 16 A RCBO's for each 16 A
distribution outlet would be fine. Means your electrically leaky urn
doesn't trip the whole lot off. As Adam says do the sums for the main
32 A feed cable.

63A 8 X 16A MCB protected 40 quid a week.

http://www.pslx.co.uk/mains_distribution.htm

Find any of the theatre/AV suppliers,( film and TVsuppliers can be ,er,
expensive) will be able to help you with similar gear and are used to
shipping hires around via courier.

I knew that hire would be cheap for just cables and distribution but
that is cheap cheap. B-) A big advantage is that it also
shifts/shares the responsibilty of testing/maintenance to a
"professional organisation" who one ought to be able to rely on to do
things properly.

Having said that I'd be a tad wary of smaller AV suppliers.
Observation has shown that they don't have knowledge much above "just
plug as many 13 A plugs into as many 4 way extensions (with exposed
inner cores) as required". Loading, earth loop impedance, RCD
protection? Wozzat?

A theatre/PA/lighting company would be a better bet, a place that
hires out PA systems and lighting rigs that would eat a 13 A plug top
in the quiescent state. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
BS 7909 is probably worth a look...

Costs start to add up fast, for how many uses a year?

6mm X 3 core HO7 RNF typically around 4 quid a meter, 50m cable= 200 +
connectors.

Plus distribution and additional `borrowable, cables, and of course,
testing.

30m 63A SP cable 35 quid a week, save a lot using 32A distribution.

63A 8 X 16A MCB protected 40 quid a week.

http://www.pslx.co.uk/mains_distribution.htm

Find any of the theatre/AV suppliers,( film and TVsuppliers can be ,er,
expensive) will be able to help you with similar gear and are used to
shipping hires around via courier.

Quite. And you don't have to find somewhere to store it all.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:16:02 +0100, ARW wrote:

Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63
A
extension is long, FSVO "long".

You might have to use a TT install with two RCDs as per a caravan set
up.

Aye I was thinking that but it opens another can of worms...

All points noted in your post and I like the alternative view.

Thank you, I'm not a spark but do keep my eyes open about how things
are done in temporary installations (TV Outside Broadcasts) and
around event marquees etc, if only so I feel safe plugging in mains
kit.

--
Cheers
Dave.