A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern brick builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

--
Life is a sexually transmitted infection.

On 03/06/2014 14:55, Uncle Peter wrote:
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

Wasn't 1983 the time after which it became mandatory for builders to
build insulation into the cavity wall?

On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:23:06 +0100, Andrew May wrote:

On 03/06/2014 14:55, Uncle Peter wrote:
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

Wasn't 1983 the time after which it became mandatory for builders to
build insulation into the cavity wall?

So not only do houses have to be made safely, they have to be made economical. What a farce.

--
A young teenager comes home from school and asks her mother, "Is it true what Rita just told me? That babies come out of the same place where boys put their thingies?"
"Yes, dear," replies her mother, pleased that the subject had finally come up and she wouldn't have to explain it.
"But then when I have a baby, won't it knock my teeth out?"

On 03/06/2014 15:23, Andrew May wrote:
On 03/06/2014 14:55, Uncle Peter wrote:
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

Wasn't 1983 the time after which it became mandatory for builders to
build insulation into the cavity wall?


No ... there was a requirement for a minimum uLevel of heat loss, but
no requirement for cavity fill.

I built in 1984 and used inner & outer skin of Heatlite2 blocks - no
cavity fill.



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:40:07 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

On 03/06/2014 15:23, Andrew May wrote:
On 03/06/2014 14:55, Uncle Peter wrote:
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

Wasn't 1983 the time after which it became mandatory for builders to
build insulation into the cavity wall?


No ... there was a requirement for a minimum uLevel of heat loss, but
no requirement for cavity fill.

I built in 1984 and used inner & outer skin of Heatlite2 blocks - no
cavity fill.

If you build your own, does anybody check? It's your heating bill after all.

--
How come abbreviated is such a long word?

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Sources please?

I ask as we've started to look to move. So I've been seeking info on
such questions. And the answers are anything but as clear and firm as
yours. Eg Green Deal sellers have been telling loads of people that
houses built since 1983 won't benefit from cavity wall insulation.
Seems to be utter ******** based on both what I've seen in specific
cases and - more importan - what Consumer found in 2012[1]. Drawing on
NHBC records they estimated that over 2 million houses had been built
since 1983 with unfilled cavities. Of course that doesn't mean they are
as bad as older properties as they may have thermal blocks etc. But
speaks volumes for the integrity of so-called flagship initiatives to
improve the housing stock.


[1] http://www.consumerfutures.org.uk/fi...g-the-gaps.pdf

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Houses round here were built in 1987/88 and 89 and don't have any form
of cavity fill (other than air). The outer wall is brick and the inner
wall is lightweight block. The cavity wall fillers seem to be filling
their boots round here. (personally I'm wary of damp problems caused by
bridging the cavity -have these really all been overcome?)

--
Chris

"news" wrote in message ...

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Houses round here were built in 1987/88 and 89 and don't have any form of
cavity fill (other than air). The outer wall is brick and the inner wall
is lightweight block. The cavity wall fillers seem to be filling their
boots round here. (personally I'm wary of damp problems caused by bridging
the cavity -have these really all been overcome?)

For what it is worth the side of street I live on was built in 2001 - none
of the houses had filled cavity walls. Apparently the blocks used at the
time had sufficient insulation properties that extra insulation inside the
cavities wasn't needed to meet the regs. The houses on the other side of
the street were built about 4 to 5 years later and all has cavity
insulation.

We had our cavity insulated by British Gas - they did virtually the whole of
our side of the street - for 'free' about 18 months ago. It does seem to
keep the place a warmer.

Cheers

Mark

On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 19:45:26 +0100, Ferretygubbins wrote:



"news" wrote in message ...

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Houses round here were built in 1987/88 and 89 and don't have any form of
cavity fill (other than air). The outer wall is brick and the inner wall
is lightweight block. The cavity wall fillers seem to be filling their
boots round here. (personally I'm wary of damp problems caused by bridging
the cavity -have these really all been overcome?)

For what it is worth the side of street I live on was built in 2001 - none
of the houses had filled cavity walls. Apparently the blocks used at the
time had sufficient insulation properties that extra insulation inside the
cavities wasn't needed to meet the regs. The houses on the other side of
the street were built about 4 to 5 years later and all has cavity
insulation.

We had our cavity insulated by British Gas - they did virtually the whole of
our side of the street - for 'free' about 18 months ago. It does seem to
keep the place a warmer.

My neighbour noticed no difference at all after cavity wall AND extra loft insulation. It's a con.

--
A patient complained to his doctor, "I've been to three other doctors and none of them agreed with your diagnosis."
The doctor calmly replied, "Just wait until the autopsy, then they'll see that I was right."

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 19:45:26 +0100, Ferretygubbins
wrote:



"news" wrote in message ...

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if
the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Houses round here were built in 1987/88 and 89 and don't have any form
of
cavity fill (other than air). The outer wall is brick and the inner
wall
is lightweight block. The cavity wall fillers seem to be filling their
boots round here. (personally I'm wary of damp problems caused by
bridging
the cavity -have these really all been overcome?)

For what it is worth the side of street I live on was built in 2001 -
none
of the houses had filled cavity walls. Apparently the blocks used at the
time had sufficient insulation properties that extra insulation inside
the
cavities wasn't needed to meet the regs. The houses on the other side of
the street were built about 4 to 5 years later and all has cavity
insulation.

We had our cavity insulated by British Gas - they did virtually the whole
of
our side of the street - for 'free' about 18 months ago. It does seem to
keep the place a warmer.

My neighbour noticed no difference at all after cavity wall AND extra loft
insulation. It's a con.


No - thay just shows you have a bedroom in the same mental ward as your
neighbour.


--
Adam

On 03/06/2014 21:50, Uncle Peter wrote:

My neighbour noticed no difference at all after cavity wall AND extra
loft insulation. It's a con.


Have you told them to close the doors and windows when its cold?

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 19:45:26 +0100, Ferretygubbins
wrote:



"news" wrote in message ...

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if
the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern
brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Houses round here were built in 1987/88 and 89 and don't have any form
of
cavity fill (other than air). The outer wall is brick and the inner
wall
is lightweight block. The cavity wall fillers seem to be filling their
boots round here. (personally I'm wary of damp problems caused by
bridging
the cavity -have these really all been overcome?)

For what it is worth the side of street I live on was built in 2001 -
none
of the houses had filled cavity walls. Apparently the blocks used at the
time had sufficient insulation properties that extra insulation inside
the
cavities wasn't needed to meet the regs. The houses on the other side of
the street were built about 4 to 5 years later and all has cavity
insulation.

We had our cavity insulated by British Gas - they did virtually the whole
of
our side of the street - for 'free' about 18 months ago. It does seem to
keep the place a warmer.

My neighbour noticed no difference at all after cavity wall AND extra loft
insulation. It's a con.



You're not expected to. You will get a reduction in your heating bill.

On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 19:45:26 +0100, "Ferretygubbins"
wrote:



For what it is worth the side of street I live on was built in 2001 - none
of the houses had filled cavity walls. Apparently the blocks used at the
time had sufficient insulation properties that extra insulation inside the
cavities wasn't needed to meet the regs.

Mine was built in 1988 when the inner wall was built with Thermalite
(sp?) blocks to comply with the regs without having to insulate the
cavity.

We had our cavity insulated by British Gas - they did virtually the whole of
our side of the street - for 'free' about 18 months ago. It does seem to
keep the place a warmer.

Gordon Brown paid for my 'free' insulation about a year before he left
office. The house is cooler in summer as well.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted
during construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Have a guess how many timber framed new builds I have worked on?

--
Adam

Er.....zero?

Jim K

"JimK" wrote in message
...
Er.....zero?

Jim K


Correct.


--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"JimK" wrote in message
...
Er.....zero?

Jim K


Correct.

New buildings don't need rewires.
And few modifications to wiring either.

On 03/06/2014 16:06, harryagain wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
A cavity wall salesman stopped me in the street to ask if I knew if the
houses were built after 1983, apparently they can't do it to modern brick
builds? He didn't know any more about it, being a salesman.

It will already have full or part fill cavity wall insulation fitted during
construction.

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.


Not round here they are not. Several estates of conventional blockwork /
brick facing.

harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Hmm.
I've been in the building trade since leaving school in 1981.

I've seen timber frames used three times since then, once was a small estate
of about 20 detatched at the very low end of the market in a rough area.

The only other two times I've witnessed it were on detatched single build
houses.

I must have worked on hundreds if not very close to a thousand sites and
never seen it used other than the examples mentioned above.

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Hmm.
I've been in the building trade since leaving school in 1981.

I've seen timber frames used three times since then, once was a small
estate of about 20 detatched at the very low end of the market in a rough
area.

The only other two times I've witnessed it were on detatched single build
houses.

I must have worked on hundreds if not very close to a thousand sites and
never seen it used other than the examples mentioned above.


Round here (W. Midlands) all the new houses have been timber frame.
Mostly to do with speed of erection/cheapness I think.

Even extensions on existing buildings.

Round here (W. Midlands) all the new houses have been timber frame.
Mostly to do with speed of erection/cheapness I think.

Even extensions on existing buildings.

While in the real world even the people who lobby for timber framed ony
claim about 25% of new builds in the UK (with a much bigger market share
in Scotland than rUK).
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On 04/06/2014 07:02, harryagain wrote:

Round here (W. Midlands) all the new houses have been timber frame.
Mostly to do with speed of erection/cheapness I think.

Even extensions on existing buildings.



Rubbish, I haven't seen a single timber framed one built here in the W.
Midlands in the last 25 years and they have built hundreds.

The only thing they appear to do different now is use block and beam for
the ground floors on many of the builds.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 04/06/2014 07:02, harryagain wrote:

Round here (W. Midlands) all the new houses have been timber frame.
Mostly to do with speed of erection/cheapness I think.

Even extensions on existing buildings.



Rubbish, I haven't seen a single timber framed one built here in the W.
Midlands in the last 25 years and they have built hundreds.

The only thing they appear to do different now is use block and beam for
the ground floors on many of the builds.


Indeed, And screeded soild concrete ground floors (on top of the insulation
of course) are still common.

I wired up a new build last year that used block and beam on both the ground
and first floors as the house had a full wet UFH system installed. That was
a first for me.

BTW It was not a timber framed house:-)

--
Adam

On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 20:35:06 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:


Hmm.
I've been in the building trade since leaving school in 1981.

I've seen timber frames used three times since then, once was a small estate
of about 20 detatched at the very low end of the market in a rough area.

The only other two times I've witnessed it were on detatched single build
houses.

I must have worked on hundreds if not very close to a thousand sites and
never seen it used other than the examples mentioned above.

I lived on an estate built by Wimpey in the 1980s where the houses
were timber framed with a brick skin. As the middle of a terrace it
didn't cost much to heat. From memory the plasterboard was about 2in
thick as well.

harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Forgotten some tablets again, have we?

Timber frame is still relatively uncommon - there's been a few notable
ones where they cock up the location of the damp-proof membranes which
then rots the timbers...

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 04/06/2014 09:15, Scott M wrote:
harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Forgotten some tablets again, have we?

Timber frame is still relatively uncommon - there's been a few notable
ones where they cock up the location of the damp-proof membranes which
then rots the timbers...


When I worked as an assistant valuation surveyor in the 80s I'm pretty
sure we used an industry standard caveat that protected us against any
liability in the case of timber framed homes. This effectively ruled
them out for mortgage purposes, and by extension, a construction method.

I'm very surprised to learn that 'virtually all' new homes were/are
timber framed, mid-80s on.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 09:43:37 UTC+1, RJH wrote:

I'm very surprised to learn that 'virtually all' new homes were/are
timber framed, mid-80s on.

They're not. As of 2012, the proportion of timber framed new-builds sat at around 23% - rising from 15% over the previous 10 years:

http://www.structuraltimber.co.uk/in...?view=download

Mathew

On 04/06/14 13:20, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 09:43:37 UTC+1, RJH wrote:

I'm very surprised to learn that 'virtually all' new homes were/are
timber framed, mid-80s on.

They're not. As of 2012, the proportion of timber framed new-builds sat at around 23% - rising from 15% over the previous 10 years:

http://www.structuraltimber.co.uk/in...?view=download

Mathew

ah thanks. That accords with my experience round here watching 'new
builds' that its not common but its not rare either.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 04/06/2014 09:15, Scott M wrote:
harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Forgotten some tablets again, have we?

Timber frame is still relatively uncommon - there's been a few notable
ones where they cock up the location of the damp-proof membranes which
then rots the timbers...


When I worked as an assistant valuation surveyor in the 80s I'm pretty
sure we used an industry standard caveat that protected us against any
liability in the case of timber framed homes. This effectively ruled
them out for mortgage purposes, and by extension, a construction method.

I'm very surprised to learn that 'virtually all' new homes were/are
timber framed, mid-80s on.

having see a few, locally, under construction, I wonder if "timber framed"
is the correct description. The inner skin appears to be simply big sheets
of plywood.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 04/06/14 12:47, charles wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 04/06/2014 09:15, Scott M wrote:
harryagain wrote:

A few years later, virtually all houses were/are timber frame.
Sometimes with a brick outer leaf.

Forgotten some tablets again, have we?

Timber frame is still relatively uncommon - there's been a few notable
ones where they cock up the location of the damp-proof membranes which
then rots the timbers...


When I worked as an assistant valuation surveyor in the 80s I'm pretty
sure we used an industry standard caveat that protected us against any
liability in the case of timber framed homes. This effectively ruled
them out for mortgage purposes, and by extension, a construction method.

I'm very surprised to learn that 'virtually all' new homes were/are
timber framed, mid-80s on.

having see a few, locally, under construction, I wonder if "timber framed"
is the correct description. The inner skin appears to be simply big sheets
of plywood.

its a perfectly valid material.

If kept from rain and sun.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 12:47:07 UTC+1, charles wrote:

having see a few, locally, under construction, I wonder if "timber framed"
is the correct description. The inner skin appears to be simply big sheets
of plywood.

That's just it though - the plywood is the skin (known as sheathing) to the *timber frame* behind it.

Mathew