In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can count
the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one heavily
mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour and
a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night where I
only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is flashing and has
lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our little
enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to fixing properly
but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when the phone started
working again and it had knocked out the power to 352 houses over a several
mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at the top of a power pole in
someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too. So
no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems. Branches
falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it happens
so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we have to get
used to?
--
Dave Baker

On 27/02/2014 08:15, Dave Baker wrote:

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it
happens so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we
have to get used to?

Pretty much... lots of overhead distribution, tree, weather etc.

UPS the important things, and consider a generator and transfer switch.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/02/14 08:31, Huge wrote:

What he said. We live in the middle of nowhere, too, on the end of many
kilometers of overhead distribution. I bought a big UPS.

Which make (and maybe model if arsed you can be ?

Because it's a very good alternative to a generator - particularly as it
can be "always online".


I was considering a dedicated "generator radial circuit" with an
external input socket (male socket) and a few sockets in key places.

However, as our power failures are typically for no longer than a few
hours (1-2 normally and 6 max) I do wonder if a UPS might be a betetr idea.

Could have the CH, modem/network and fridge/freezer permanently on it.

Cheers!


Tim

In article , Tim Watts
scribeth thus
On 27/02/14 08:31, Huge wrote:

What he said. We live in the middle of nowhere, too, on the end of many
kilometers of overhead distribution. I bought a big UPS.

Which make (and maybe model if arsed you can be ?

Because it's a very good alternative to a generator - particularly as it
can be "always online".


As long as you don't put much load on it and expect it to run for very
long..


I was considering a dedicated "generator radial circuit" with an
external input socket (male socket) and a few sockets in key places.

Much better idea...


However, as our power failures are typically for no longer than a few
hours (1-2 normally and 6 max) I do wonder if a UPS might be a betetr idea.

Could have the CH, modem/network and fridge/freezer permanently on it.

I doubt for that it will run any of those items for that long...

Unless it a very large capacity one. Prime power generation even from a
cheapie genny is a much better bet. UPS's are for just that maintaining
IT type power while the PC does a shutdown..


Cheers!


Tim


--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 18:44:00 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

What he said. We live in the middle of nowhere, too, on the end
of
many kilometers of overhead distribution. I bought a big UPS.

Because it's a very good alternative to a generator - particularly
as
it can be "always online".

As long as you don't put much load on it ...

That would be tricky with a "whole house" UPS but one could install a
separate maintained ring and use "chinese"(*) plugs and sockets so
that the kettle/hoover or WHY can't be plugged in.

Also too much load could be the in rush from a motor causing the UPS
to trip out. The in rush from a CRT monitor was enough to trip the
little (750 VA) UPS I have.

... and expect it to run for very long..

That depends on the battery capacity but yes you need *BIG* batterys
to supply 1 kW for any great length of time.
Unless it a very large capacity one. Prime power generation even from a
cheapie genny is a much better bet. UPS's are for just that maintaining
IT type power while the PC does a shutdown..

Our genset is 2 kVA runs the fridges, freezers, CH system etc no
problem. I have 2.6 kVA UPS but no batteries for it. One day I'll
equip it with 4 100 AHr or bigger deep discharge batteries. If the in
rushes don't trip it it would be a bit more convient than the genset.
The latter does have the advantage that a trip down to the garage for
25 litres of red will keep it going for over a day.

(*) Looks like a normal 13A plug but the L and N pins are oriented
vertically and the earth horizontal. Not sure they are still
available or the version with a round earth pin and L/N in normal
orientation.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

one could install a separate maintained ring and use "chinese"(*)
plugs and sockets

(*) Looks like a normal 13A plug but the L and N pins are oriented
vertically and the earth horizontal.

Walsall Gauge.

Huge wrote:

it's a SmartUPS 2200, s/h on eBay. That might not be a "big" UPS
by your standards, but it was by mine.

I've got a couple of those, both saved from being skipped and a 1400,
they're fairly "cold war" design, never see to go wrong. Last time I
replaced the batteries with 3rd party equivalents they seemed a
reasonable price, need doing again and the prices seem to have shot-up.
So for the past 3 months or so I've bypassed them - and noticed how much
power they consume just sitting there (cooking their batteries!).

On 28/02/2014 09:28, Huge wrote:
On 2014-02-27, Andy Burns wrote:
Huge wrote:

it's a SmartUPS 2200, s/h on eBay. That might not be a "big" UPS
by your standards, but it was by mine.

I've got a couple of those, both saved from being skipped and a 1400,
they're fairly "cold war" design, never see to go wrong. Last time I
replaced the batteries with 3rd party equivalents they seemed a
reasonable price, need doing again and the prices seem to have shot-up.

Mine needs new batteries and the cost of them has put me off replacing
them. Fortunately, we haven't had a power cut for ages.

Find the right lead acid battery in AH and shape (deep discharge)
somewhere like RapidOnline and it will be half the price of the official
rebadged ones sold for UPS or wheelchair user ripoffs.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:

Huge wrote:

it's a SmartUPS 2200

needs new batteries and the cost of them has put me off replacing
them.

Find the right lead acid battery in AH and shape (deep discharge)
somewhere like RapidOnline and it will be half the price of the official
rebadged ones sold for UPS or wheelchair user ripoffs.

Of course, last time I used Yuasa ones, now even the "neverheardofem"
brands seem twice the price I paid ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180709291829

The 2200's take four batteries each, the 1400 takes a pair, not that I'd
need all three UPSes in use.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:38:39 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Find the right lead acid battery in AH and shape (deep discharge)
somewhere like RapidOnline and it will be half the price of the official
rebadged ones sold for UPS or wheelchair user ripoffs.

The last couple of sets I've bought(*) have come from Value Power
Systems. http://www.vps-ups.co.uk Cheapest place I have found.

(*) The joys of an APC UPS. Well known for cooking their batteries, I
don't much more than 4 years 99.99% standby use from a pair of 12 V 7
AHr batteries. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/02/14 16:55, Huge wrote:
On 2014-02-27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 27/02/14 08:31, Huge wrote:

What he said. We live in the middle of nowhere, too, on the end of many
kilometers of overhead distribution. I bought a big UPS.

Which make (and maybe model if arsed you can be ?

Well, it's a SmartUPS 2200, s/h on eBay. That might not be a "big" UPS
by your standards, but it was by mine.


Thanks! I was just curious. Should be enough to run CH for a while as
well as internetty stuff. Fridge/freezer I'd have to put a power monitor
on - but perhaps they matter less as they will keep for the sort of
failure durations we get.

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can count
the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one heavily
mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour
and a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night
where I only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is
flashing and has lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our little
enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to fixing
properly but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when the
phone started working again and it had knocked out the power to 352 houses
over a several mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at the top
of a power pole in someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it happens
so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we have to
get used to?
--
Dave Baker

It is a living in the sticks thing.
You might be out for days if we have heavy snow and they have many
faults/can't get out to fix things..
Take due precautions. Open fire/stove, portable generator. Camping gas
stove.

It arises out of having overhead power lines.

On 27/02/2014 08:15, Dave Baker wrote:
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can
count the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one
heavily mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

That sounds a bit like a run of bad luck. We lose power a couple of
times a year here in North Yorkshire. The last memorable one was a
direct hit on the village hall by lightning which took down all three
phases in the village as the main breaker went pop.

Usually we lose power in bad weather storms or ice so it is helpful to
have a wood burning stove and a backup generator for freezer etc.

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

Not just branches whole trees. My hedge is still recovering from the
last one to fall across the power line (which is now one of the bundled
insulated aluminium 3 phase spiral wound round a steel hauser). This
stuff can actually survive having a tree fall on it and come back up
again! However the poles are all bent (marked do not climb) and some
lost their electricity because it ripped their connections off the wall.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it
happens so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we
have to get used to?

Something you will have to get used to. Buy a couple of emergency lights
and LED torches with a high resistance bridging the on/off switch so
that about 20uA can flow in standby. That way you have some light when
the power goes off (and stock up on candles).

This version of the 3M dayglo plastic torch is impressive and well worth
having if you live in an area prone to power cuts. The light from its
case is enough to find it and in extremis see by once dark adapted. It
only takes 3 AA cells so isn't that long lasting but it is very handy
since you can find it reliably after the lights have gone out!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glow-torch...-/271410378344

There is a fob version too. Ignore all the other so called glotorches
they use the old zinc sulphide glows green for 15 minutes after being
blasted by an arc lamp for an hour. This stuff is the real deal.

(no connection with the seller other than having bought one from him)

It is an ideal Xmas stocking filler.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/02/2014 08:15, Dave Baker wrote:
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can
count the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one
heavily mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour
and a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night
where I only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is
flashing and has lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our
little enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to
fixing properly but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when
the phone started working again and it had knocked out the power to 352
houses over a several mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at
the top of a power pole in someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it
happens so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we
have to get used to?

Yep. When I worked for an electricity board, the rural areas always got
a lot more outages than the urban areas, even though some of the latter
also had overhead distribution lines. Rural overhead lines are a lot
longer, much more exposed to damage, more difficult to inspect
(helicopter surveys were expensive and restricted to the major lines)
and often more difficult to reach when they do need repair.

Colin Bignell

On 27/02/2014 09:23, Nightjar wrote:
On 27/02/2014 08:15, Dave Baker wrote:
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can
count the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one
heavily mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour
and a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night
where I only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is
flashing and has lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our
little enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to
fixing properly but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when
the phone started working again and it had knocked out the power to 352
houses over a several mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at
the top of a power pole in someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it
happens so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we
have to get used to?

Yep. When I worked for an electricity board, the rural areas always got
a lot more outages than the urban areas, even though some of the latter
also had overhead distribution lines. Rural overhead lines are a lot
longer, much more exposed to damage, more difficult to inspect
(helicopter surveys were expensive and restricted to the major lines)
and often more difficult to reach when they do need repair.

Colin Bignell

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.


I have a similar problem with my BT phone line however in that case I
have ordered an underground fibre connection which I am hoping will be
more reliable. I will be disappointed if the broadband Internet is not
100 times faster.


--
Michael Chare

On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:
....
Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

That is an average of around once every nine years. IMO a very good record.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided....

.... but undergrounding has problems of its own.

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:33:32 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

Nothing - because they do that now.

We've just had about a dozen trees removed by Western Power - free of
charge to us - because their proximity to lines posed a risk. Having
moved in last year, we phoned them to arrange transfer of the wayleave
for some poles, and asked about the tree clearance. A surveyor was here
in days, and went a funny colour - the lines had allegedly been inspected
a couple of years previously, but clearly not particularly well...

They aim for five metres clearance from 11kv lines, and 3m from 230v, but
if the landowner is unwilling to co-operate they can get a court order
granting them access and rights to clear 3m from 11kv and 1m from 230v.
And that's horizontal distance as well as vertical. Anything that's
further than that but may pose a risk should it fall will be glared at,
too.

They take this very seriously indeed...

On 27/02/2014 16:50, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:33:32 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

Nothing - because they do that now.

We've just had about a dozen trees removed by Western Power - free of
charge to us - because their proximity to lines posed a risk. Having
moved in last year, we phoned them to arrange transfer of the wayleave
for some poles, and asked about the tree clearance. A surveyor was here
in days, and went a funny colour - the lines had allegedly been inspected
a couple of years previously, but clearly not particularly well...

They aim for five metres clearance from 11kv lines, and 3m from 230v, but
if the landowner is unwilling to co-operate they can get a court order
granting them access and rights to clear 3m from 11kv and 1m from 230v.
And that's horizontal distance as well as vertical. Anything that's
further than that but may pose a risk should it fall will be glared at,
too.

They take this very seriously indeed...

However, as you have seen, what they want to achieve and what actually
happens are not necessarily the same thing. it would need a much higher
level of inspection and more tree lopping teams, to achieve the target
of removing *all* trees that might pose a risk. We couldn't do that as a
nationalised industry, at a time when we were looking for ways to spend
money, so that we didn't break the 2% profit cap.

Colin Bignell

In article , Adrian
scribeth thus
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:33:32 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

Nothing - because they do that now.

We've just had about a dozen trees removed by Western Power - free of
charge to us - because their proximity to lines posed a risk. Having
moved in last year, we phoned them to arrange transfer of the wayleave
for some poles, and asked about the tree clearance. A surveyor was here
in days, and went a funny colour - the lines had allegedly been inspected
a couple of years previously, but clearly not particularly well...

They aim for five metres clearance from 11kv lines, and 3m from 230v, but
if the landowner is unwilling to co-operate they can get a court order
granting them access and rights to clear 3m from 11kv and 1m from 230v.
And that's horizontal distance as well as vertical. Anything that's
further than that but may pose a risk should it fall will be glared at,
too.

They take this very seriously indeed...

I wish UK power networks did. One of their staff told me they cut back
and then cut back some more regretfully its not the trees that are cut
but men on the ground are;(...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Nightjar
scribeth thus
On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:
...
Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

That is an average of around once every nine years. IMO a very good record.

Your very lucky!..

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

Like trees near railway lines etc, but then again tree huggers have a
lot to be responsible for..


How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided....

... but undergrounding has problems of its own.

Like what?. In comparison to overhead?..

Colin Bignell



--
Tony Sayer

On 27/02/2014 18:40, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Nightjar
scribeth thus
....
... but undergrounding has problems of its own.

Like what?. In comparison to overhead?..

More difficult to upgrade. Can be damaged by ground movement. Prone to
getting digger shovels through them. Faults normally take a lot longer
to trace and repair (digger shovels excluded).

Colin Bignell

On 27/02/2014 16:33, Nightjar wrote:
On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:
...
Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

That is an average of around once every nine years. IMO a very good record.


That is just the power cuts that I have been able to see the cause.
Usually I don't know why the power has failed. There have been many
more failures. I don't keep a log, and I have been paid compensation.



If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell,

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

A small increase in cost would be OK if reliability was improved.



or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided....

... but undergrounding has problems of its own.


Building (more?) redundancy into the circuits would also help.



--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:
On 27/02/2014 16:33, Nightjar wrote:

How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

A small increase in cost would be OK if reliability was improved.

A small increase in cost would raise them a small increase in profits
and nothing else.

To my mind, companies (of all types) seem to have become very short
sighted these days - "Profit at all costs" would seem to be the motto of
many. That's not to say I'm some lefty loonie crying on the evils of
money making, but just that if Railtrack worked out they could flog the
track for scrap and make a bigger profit for one year, and one year only
of course, then they would.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 28/02/2014 00:02, Michael Chare wrote:
On 27/02/2014 16:33, Nightjar wrote:
....
How much extra would you be willing to pay for your electricity to
achieve that level of maintenance?

A small increase in cost would be OK if reliability was improved.

Transmission availability in the UK in 2012/2013 was 99.9999%.
Distribution availability will depend upon your power company, but will
be of much the same order. Improving upon that is likely to involve
rather more than a 'small' increase in cost.

Mind you, if you think reliability is bad now, wait until the reductions
in capacity to meet EU green targets start to bite.

....
Building (more?) redundancy into the circuits would also help.

Your power company would probably build you an extra power line, if you
were willing to pay the cost.

Colin Bignell

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines.

That was a bit of a one in "x" year's event;!..

The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

Now your asking;!.


I have a similar problem with my BT phone line however in that case I
have ordered an underground fibre connection which I am hoping will be
more reliable. I will be disappointed if the broadband Internet is not
100 times faster.



Got to be Virgin Media then;?...
--
Tony Sayer

On 27/02/2014 18:46, tony sayer wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines.

That was a bit of a one in "x" year's event;!..

That is just the trees that are local enough for me to see what
happened. There are many more power cuts.


The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

Now your asking;!.


I have a similar problem with my BT phone line however in that case I
have ordered an underground fibre connection which I am hoping will be
more reliable. I will be disappointed if the broadband Internet is not
100 times faster.



Got to be Virgin Media then;?...

Gigaclear

--
Michael Chare

In article , Michael
Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk.? scribeth thus
On 27/02/2014 18:46, tony sayer wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines.

That was a bit of a one in "x" year's event;!..

That is just the trees that are local enough for me to see what
happened. There are many more power cuts.


The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

Now your asking;!.


I have a similar problem with my BT phone line however in that case I
have ordered an underground fibre connection which I am hoping will be
more reliable. I will be disappointed if the broadband Internet is not
100 times faster.



Got to be Virgin Media then;?...

Gigaclear


Ah!, community broadband. There seem to be some of those springing up
around this area.

http://www.airbroadband.co.uk/

This one is using wireless delivery on I believe 5.8 Ghz which IMHO
isn't the best choice of frequency as anyone and everyone will be
entitled to use those frequency bands.

So the Gigaclear system is that fibre delivered in which case they must
have dug up all the area served to lay ducts or is that radio delivered
too, if you know?..

It makes me wonder if they can do that why can't BT or VM do it?.

However there were several radio broadband systems came online in the
area around Cambridge, but as soon as the local exchange was enabled up
off people went to broadband by wire. Usually the lack of aerials on the
roof appealed to most subscribers. Makes me wonder if the same might
happen again or perhaps we'll see the likes of G/Clear being swallowed
up by bigger players as time goes by like perhaps err BT;?..


As to your 100 times faster, much less then that is fine We've been on
the 30 meg service from VM for a few years now and its fine. Sir Richard
with his mate Mr Bolt tell us that we're to have 60 for the same price
in the summer which is fine by me...

--
Tony Sayer

On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

The conditions this winter were really exceptional. Realistically the
infrastructure companies are going to deal with faults affecting a large
number of customers first. Increasing penalties is not a realistic
solution because the costs of have extra staff and equipment available
for events that only happen occasionally would simply be uneconomic. As
for cutting down trees a lot of this is done on a precautionary basis
but in many cases the owner will not allow the work to be done. Neither
is putting many rural lines underground an economic reality. Essentially
powers cuts are just the reality of living in rural areas.


--
Peter Crosland

In message , Peter
Crosland writes
On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

The conditions this winter were really exceptional. Realistically the
infrastructure companies are going to deal with faults affecting a
large number of customers first. Increasing penalties is not a
realistic solution because the costs of have extra staff and equipment
available for events that only happen occasionally would simply be
uneconomic. As for cutting down trees a lot of this is done on a
precautionary basis but in many cases the owner will not allow the work
to be done. Neither is putting many rural lines underground an economic
reality. Essentially powers cuts are just the reality of living in rural areas.


I get fed up with all these people whinging about level of services in
rural areas. According to a survey by NFU Mutual 78% of people who live
in rural areas have chosen to move there from towns and cities.
I was born and raised in such an area and wild horses wouldn't drag me
back.
--
bert

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:38:52 +0000, bert wrote:

I get fed up with all these people whinging about level of services in
rural areas. According to a survey by NFU Mutual 78% of people who live
in rural areas have chosen to move there from towns and cities.
I was born and raised in such an area and wild horses wouldn't drag me
back.

I grew up in suburban Sheffield until I was 10, and we moved out to the
Peak District. Then I went down to London for Uni, and stayed around
commuter-belt M25 until last year. Now, we're in the Welsh borders, and
you wouldn't get me back into a major town or city for love nor money.

On 28/02/2014 11:22, Peter Crosland wrote:
On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

The conditions this winter were really exceptional. Realistically the
infrastructure companies are going to deal with faults affecting a large
number of customers first. Increasing penalties is not a realistic
solution because the costs of have extra staff and equipment available
for events that only happen occasionally would simply be uneconomic. As
for cutting down trees a lot of this is done on a precautionary basis
but in many cases the owner will not allow the work to be done. Neither
is putting many rural lines underground an economic reality. Essentially
powers cuts are just the reality of living in rural areas.



Trees falling across power lines is an easily avoidable problem. If the
existing wayleaves don't allow enough trees to be cut down, then the
government should change the law. The work can be done year round.

Leaving the trees standing and waiting till many of them fall down in a
strong wind might cost the power companies, but it inconveniences
customers. That is why higher penalties are needed for this type of
failure.


--
Michael Chare

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:59:24 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:

Trees falling across power lines is an easily avoidable problem. If the
existing wayleaves don't allow enough trees to be cut down, then the
government should change the law.

The law already allows the power companies to get a court order to
enforce minimum separation distances.

In article , Michael
Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk.? scribeth thus
On 28/02/2014 11:22, Peter Crosland wrote:
On 27/02/2014 15:33, Michael Chare wrote:

The real problem is that the government don't enforce high enough
penalties when electricity supplies fail.

Worse than that, when there is bad weather the amount that the suppliers
have to pay by way of compensation to customers who have been cut off is
halved.

Since the '87 storm my supply was failed three times because of falling
trees hitting overhead lines. The last time was this month. We were cut
off for 48 hours. Nothing was done to correct the problem for the first
30 hours, probably because other problems were being attended to. There
would have been a 4th time just before last Christmas, fortunately the
tree just clipped the line as it fell and only cause a temporary outage.

If the electricity supplier cut down all the trees that could hit the
lines if they fell, or put the cables underground the problem would be
avoided.

The conditions this winter were really exceptional. Realistically the
infrastructure companies are going to deal with faults affecting a large
number of customers first. Increasing penalties is not a realistic
solution because the costs of have extra staff and equipment available
for events that only happen occasionally would simply be uneconomic. As
for cutting down trees a lot of this is done on a precautionary basis
but in many cases the owner will not allow the work to be done. Neither
is putting many rural lines underground an economic reality. Essentially
powers cuts are just the reality of living in rural areas.



Trees falling across power lines is an easily avoidable problem. If the
existing wayleaves don't allow enough trees to be cut down, then the
government should change the law. The work can be done year round.

I believe they do have power to make landowners give access 'tho they
have to go to court to get them...


Leaving the trees standing and waiting till many of them fall down in a
strong wind might cost the power companies, but it inconveniences
customers. That is why higher penalties are needed for this type of
failure.


...


--
Tony Sayer

Well in a wy it is, but its also lack of inspection.
Many years ago people used to walk the lines and get trees pruned that
might hit the cables and look for overheating transformers etc, but I have
the feeling that they now plan on a given life for hardware, and do not look
so often at long low runs of cable near trees.
I've also heard via some comments from people that Ofcom are getting more
reports of interference from insulators than used to be the case, so I'd
suggest less inspection is definitely going on, or not if you get my drift.
ask a person who lives in Norfolk, they have similar issues.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can count
the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one heavily
mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour
and a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night
where I only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is
flashing and has lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our little
enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to fixing
properly but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when the
phone started working again and it had knocked out the power to 352 houses
over a several mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at the top
of a power pole in someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it happens
so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we have to
get used to?
--
Dave Baker

On 27/02/2014 09:36, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well in a wy it is, but its also lack of inspection.

NEDL are not too bad up here in North Yorkshire and replaced our aging
once insulated copper three phase with the insulation all hanging off
arcing and sparking in the rain with new aluminium hauser based cable
about a decade ago. Very impressive stuff it is too.

Many years ago people used to walk the lines and get trees pruned that
might hit the cables and look for overheating transformers etc, but I have
the feeling that they now plan on a given life for hardware, and do not look
so often at long low runs of cable near trees.

They seem to come around about very five years and give close trees a
haircut or sooner if the parish council points out a problem to them.

Some of it is based on smarter risk management in that regions with no
trees require a lot less inspection. It doesn't always work but you can
pretty much predict where the most likely damage hotspots will be.

I've also heard via some comments from people that Ofcom are getting more
reports of interference from insulators than used to be the case, so I'd
suggest less inspection is definitely going on, or not if you get my drift.
ask a person who lives in Norfolk, they have similar issues.
Brian

When you live in a rural backwater you have to accept that you are
pretty much last in line when it comes to restoring power. If one team
of engineers can reconnect 100,000 people in a nearby city or go off and
do 1000 people in a difficult to reach village the choice is clear!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/02/2014 09:36, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well in a wy it is, but its also lack of inspection.

NEDL are not too bad up here in North Yorkshire and replaced our aging
once insulated copper three phase with the insulation all hanging off
arcing and sparking in the rain with new aluminium hauser based cable

or even "hawser".

there was a tv transmitter near here which lost its power when a tree
branch took out the overhead supply. The Supply company suggested to the
farmer that he had othe rbranches liable to take out the line and he should
remove them. So he did, dropping each one onto the line!

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Thursday, 27 February 2014 09:53:49 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

When you live in a rural backwater you have to accept that you are
pretty much last in line when it comes to restoring power. If one team
of engineers can reconnect 100,000 people in a nearby city or go off and
do 1000 people in a difficult to reach village the choice is clear!

So the idea of having temporary linesmen hired by agencies subcontracting to the various entities that now own the grids are **** is all wrong?

And the people who look after all our infrastructures just like they used to before Margaret Thatcher are all still nice chaps that know what they are doing and do it professionally?

Not like the meter reader that came and turfed out a perfectly good meter in my block just in time for the snowy weather?
Or the plethora of arseholes that followed him resisting significantly any effort to rectify things?

OK. Sounds good to me....
Ooh look another fairy!
Hang on I want to catch it in a jam jar so I can show you all. I just missed the last one. I know you all love fairies. I will get it to tell you all another story if you like.

Don't go away.
Dick heads.

Well in a way it is, but its also lack of inspection.
Many years ago people used to walk the lines and get trees pruned that
might hit the cables and look for overheating transformers etc, but I have
the feeling that they now plan on a given life for hardware, and do not
look so often at long low runs of cable near trees.
I've also heard via some comments from people that Ofcom are getting more
reports of interference from insulators than used to be the case, so I'd
suggest less inspection is definitely going on, or not if you get my
drift. ask a person who lives in Norfolk, they have similar issues.
Brian


I lived in rural Norfolk before moving to Leyburn in North Yorkshire 10
years ago. So often were the power cuts I bought a generator to keep the
heating and freezer going. Cuts came with amazing frequency due to us being
towards the end of quite along dead end supply line. My uncle moved to an
isolated farm house in Norfolk with its own water supply, six days without
power one winter had him searching in vain all the local hire companies for
a generator. No power equalled no water as well as no central heating, or
lighting. They learned to cook several meals on the wood burning stove!

Leyburn has the advantage of power coming in from two directions, so when
one goes down the other kicks in quite quickly. In the past 10 years I have
only used the generator once, and then only for about three hours.

This reminds me I must start and service it!

Mike

Dave Baker wrote:
In the 25 years I lived in my last house in southern suburbia I can
count the number of times the lecky went out on the fingers of one
heavily mutilated hand. Since moving to the middle of feckin nowhere in
Aberdeenshire it's been about a dozen times in 18 months.

We started off with a spate of them in 2012, then it settled down for a
while, we had another one last back end and then it went out for an hour
and a half yesterday again. Several have been in the middle of the night
where I only realise it happened because the clock on the cooker is
flashing and has lost its settings when I get up.

I'd assumed it was just some specific fault on a wire local to our
little enclave here which some bugger really ought to get round to
fixing properly but finally I phoned up the power company yesterday when
the phone started working again and it had knocked out the power to 352
houses over a several mile area and was reported in as "an explosion at
the top of a power pole in someone's garden".

He also looked up the previous outage and that was over a wide area too.
So no general problem with our local supply, just sod's law it seems.
Branches falling onto cables etc.

So I'm happy it isn't just my house or its supply but surprised it
happens so often. Is this just a "living in the sticks" sort of thing we
have to get used to?

I think you were just lucky. Living in the south with underground
supply, I lose power about 6 times a year, generally for less than a
couple of hours, I subscribe to the run a UPS for anything you want to
keep alive school, but I really hate resetting the alarm clock. I will
only use analogue timers for things, as they are easy to reset. I always
fit one to any security light to reset it once a night so that a short
power failure doesn't leave it on for weeks. We're also suffering from
underground cable faults due to ageing. These can take up to a day to
resolve.

/ - show quoted /...but I really hate resetting the alarm clock. /Q

May I introduce you to dab alarm clocks with a battery backup (I think)

/I will only use analogue timers for things, as they are easy to reset.

May I suggest the cheapo electronic plugin timers that remember the time & nous programming...

/I always fit one to any security light to reset it once a night so that a short power failure doesn't leave it on for weeks. /Q

Weeks?! Where are you meantime? On the Costa?!

Presumably you have to trot around all these mech timers to reset them to correct time when power is restored then?

Jim K (of the sticks)