There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid
can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter and
heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and which
trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater and
which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

The reason I ask is that we've been away for several weeks during
freezing weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and the
pond has frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of having an
RCD but perhaps there's some device for circumstances like these?

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere writes:
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid
can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter and
heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and which
trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater and
which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

Sounds like you have a fail-safe RCD - i.e. trips off when power fails.
You can get ones which don't do this - of the plug-in type, it seems
to be a roughly 50/50 split between the two types.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

F wrote:
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid
can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter
and heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and
which trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater
and which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

The reason I ask is that we've been away for several weeks during
freezing weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and the
pond has frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of having an
RCD but perhaps there's some device for circumstances like these?

Your RCD is an active type. These need to be manually reset after a
powercut.

You need to swap it for a passive RCD - a passive RCD will restore power to
the pond when power is restored to the house.

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD protection
at the CU?

--
Adam

Normally called a neighbour with a key I think.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
...
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid can't
find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter and
heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and which trips
out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater and
which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

The reason I ask is that we've been away for several weeks during freezing
weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and the pond has
frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of having an RCD
but perhaps there's some device for circumstances like these?

--
F

You may well laugh at this, but has the company approached any deviners? I
understand they can often find faulty cables as well as water leaks. These
people have tuned their nervous systems to be sensitive to change s in
electrostatic forces so can detect things like this.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
...
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid can't
find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter and
heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and which trips
out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater and
which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

The reason I ask is that we've been away for several weeks during freezing
weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and the pond has
frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of having an RCD
but perhaps there's some device for circumstances like these?

--
F

On 06/04/2013 14:27 ARW wrote:

F wrote:
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern Grid
can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of power cuts.

The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I can't see a way
round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond pump/filter
and heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a 13A socket and
which trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and heater
and which will also reset if it detects there's no continuing fault?

The reason I ask is that we've been away for several weeks during
freezing weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and the
pond has frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of having an
RCD but perhaps there's some device for circumstances like these?

Your RCD is an active type. These need to be manually reset after a
powercut.

It's one of Aldi's kits.

You need to swap it for a passive RCD - a passive RCD will restore power to
the pond when power is restored to the house.

I'll look at finding one then.

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD protection
at the CU?

Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs. When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

--
F

F wrote:
On 06/04/2013 14:27 ARW wrote:

F wrote:
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern
Grid can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of
power cuts. The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I
can't see
a way round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond
pump/filter and heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a
13A socket and which trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and
heater and which will also reset if it detects there's no
continuing fault? The reason I ask is that we've been away for several
weeks during
freezing weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and
the pond has frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of
having an RCD but perhaps there's some device for circumstances
like these?

Your RCD is an active type. These need to be manually reset after a
powercut.

It's one of Aldi's kits.

You need to swap it for a passive RCD - a passive RCD will restore
power to the pond when power is restored to the house.

I'll look at finding one then.

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD
protection at the CU?

Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs. When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

The answer is simple - remove the offending RCD - you do not need two RCDs
in series.

--
Adam

They've dug up the pavement and found nothing other than that, in wet
and cold weather, large holes fill with water which then freezes.

They've drilled a whole series of 5mm holes above the cable run to check
for gases that are produced when a cable is shorting but have found nothing.

They've fitted a 'badoing' (sp?) at the substation to restore power
automajically when the first of its two fuses blows.

They've moved the 'badoing' further away to try to get the cable to burn
out!

And, yesterday, they dug another hole just along the street and have
announced that they found a bad joint to a neighbour's house and the
problem is fixed. Tadaa!

After multiple disconnections over several years, totalling over 20
hours since last September, with four in the last two days, we'll see.

--
F

On 07/04/2013 08:26 Brian Gaff wrote:

You may well laugh at this, but has the company approached any deviners? I
understand they can often find faulty cables as well as water leaks. These
people have tuned their nervous systems to be sensitive to change s in
electrostatic forces so can detect things like this.

Brian

On 07/04/2013 10:21 ARW wrote:

F wrote:
On 06/04/2013 14:27 ARW wrote:

F wrote:
There's a fault on the underground cable 'somewhere', Northern
Grid can't find it, and so we're getting a ridiculous number of
power cuts. The 'reset the clocks' routine is well rehearsed and I
can't see
a way round having to go through it. However, we've got a pond
pump/filter and heater on an indoor RCD which is plugged into a
13A socket and which trips out every time.

Is there an alternative that will protect the pump/filter and
heater and which will also reset if it detects there's no
continuing fault? The reason I ask is that we've been away for several
weeks during
freezing weather, the power has gone off, the RCD has tripped and
the pond has frozen over and the fish have died.

I realise that it's probably completely against the idea of
having an RCD but perhaps there's some device for circumstances
like these?

Your RCD is an active type. These need to be manually reset after a
powercut.

It's one of Aldi's kits.

You need to swap it for a passive RCD - a passive RCD will restore
power to the pond when power is restored to the house.

I'll look at finding one then.

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD
protection at the CU?

Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs. When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

The answer is simple - remove the offending RCD - you do not need two RCDs
in series.

Aah! Thanks!

I was under the impression that an outdoor socket had to have its own
RCD if it was plugged into a socket within the house. Hence one for the
pond and another, at the other side of the house, for the electric
strimmer and hedge trimmer.

As an aside, why does the pond RCD trip when we have an outage but the
ones on the CU stay on?

--
F

F wrote:
Aah! Thanks!

I was under the impression that an outdoor socket had to have its own
RCD if it was plugged into a socket within the house. Hence one for
the pond and another, at the other side of the house, for the electric
strimmer and hedge trimmer.

As an aside, why does the pond RCD trip when we have an outage but the
ones on the CU stay on?

The plug type RCDs are (usually) an active RCD ie they need a manual reset
after a powercut. Handy for outdoor power tools where you may not want the
tool to automatically restart when the power is restored - but no use for
fishponds or fridge freezers where you want the power to be restored (that's
when you use a passive RCD).

--
Adam

On 07/04/2013 10:21, ARW wrote:
F wrote:
Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs.

I'm wondering whether that should be read as "and I've replaced the
wired fuses with MCBs"...

When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

.... or perhaps not.

--
Andy

F news@nowhere writes:

On 06/04/2013 14:27 ARW wrote:

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD protection
at the CU?

Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs.

Are you sure? I don't think that's possible. Did you replace the
rewireable fuses with MCBs, perhaps?

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:24:18 AM UTC+1, F wrote:


And, yesterday, they dug another hole just along the street and have

announced that they found a bad joint to a neighbour's house and the

problem is fixed. Tadaa!

There was atype of cable used through the 70s and 80s that was prone to manufacturing QC problems, notorious for developing faults, and required very precise and exacting jointing requirements. Looks like you may have had some!

On 09/04/2013 00:47 Andy Wade wrote:

On 07/04/2013 10:21, ARW wrote:
F wrote:
Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs.

I'm wondering whether that should be read as "and I've replaced the
wired fuses with MCBs"...

It should be, yes.

When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

... or perhaps not.

Does the presence of MCBs in the CU mean that there's no protection for
the outside sockets if I remove the RCD they're fed from?

--
F

On 09/04/2013 01:01 Alexander Lamaison wrote:

F news@nowhere writes:

On 06/04/2013 14:27 ARW wrote:

Does the socket that the pond heater is plugged into not have RCD protection
at the CU?

Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs.

Are you sure? I don't think that's possible. Did you replace the
rewireable fuses with MCBs, perhaps?

Yes, my mistake.

--
F

F news@nowhere writes:

On 09/04/2013 00:47 Andy Wade wrote:

On 07/04/2013 10:21, ARW wrote:
F wrote:
Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've replaced
the wired fuses with RCDs.

I'm wondering whether that should be read as "and I've replaced the
wired fuses with MCBs"...

It should be, yes.

When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and which
feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

... or perhaps not.

Does the presence of MCBs in the CU mean that there's no protection
for the outside sockets if I remove the RCD they're fed from?

Unless you have some other RCD installed in the circuit (seems
unlikely), there would not be the necessary protection to use
electricity safely outdoors. You will need to keep using one in the
plug.

Of course, the MCBs offer other sorts of protection - the same sort as a
fuse - but I don't think that's what you're asking.

Alex

--
Swish - Easy SFTP for Windows Explorer (http://www.swish-sftp.org)

On 09/04/2013 10:26 Alexander Lamaison wrote:

F news@nowhere writes:

Does the presence of MCBs in the CU mean that there's no protection
for the outside sockets if I remove the RCD they're fed from?

Unless you have some other RCD installed in the circuit (seems
unlikely), there would not be the necessary protection to use
electricity safely outdoors. You will need to keep using one in the
plug.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

--
F

F wrote:
On 09/04/2013 00:47 Andy Wade wrote:

On 07/04/2013 10:21, ARW wrote:
F wrote:
Yes. The CU was (is?) a traditional Volex fuse board and I've
replaced the wired fuses with RCDs.

I'm wondering whether that should be read as "and I've replaced the
wired fuses with MCBs"...

It should be, yes.

When we get a power cut the only RCD that
trips is the one that is plugged into an indoor 13A socket and
which feeds the outdoor sockets into which the pond electrics
are plugged.

Then there is already RCD protection for the
pond..............................

... or perhaps not.

Does the presence of MCBs in the CU mean that there's no protection
for the outside sockets if I remove the RCD they're fed from?

YES.

And well done Andy Wade for spotting that one.

--
Adam

In article , ARW
wrote:
F wrote:
Aah! Thanks!

I was under the impression that an outdoor socket had to have its own
RCD if it was plugged into a socket within the house. Hence one for the
pond and another, at the other side of the house, for the electric
strimmer and hedge trimmer.

As an aside, why does the pond RCD trip when we have an outage but the
ones on the CU stay on?

The plug type RCDs are (usually) an active RCD ie they need a manual
reset after a powercut. Handy for outdoor power tools where you may not
want the tool to automatically restart when the power is restored - but
no use for fishponds or fridge freezers where you want the power to be
restored (that's when you use a passive RCD).

and no use after a time switch feeding Christmas lights that someone put in
a local chapel. I know he's safety obsessed but .....

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18