Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection the
tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is split
from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection the
tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is split
from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Do you get two bills, both for the same amount?

Bill

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

--

Adam

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:40:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

http://basecurve.co.uk/temp/DSC_0115.jpg

(the rogue cable to the right of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out of
one of the black junction boxes)

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:01:23 +0000, R D S wrote:


(the rogue cable to the *right* of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out
of
one of the black junction boxes)


*left*, not right!

On 12/02/2014 21:01, R D S wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:40:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

http://basecurve.co.uk/temp/DSC_0115.jpg

(the rogue cable to the right of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out of
one of the black junction boxes)


A check meter would be wired in series but it looks more like someone
has just wired it up "wrong".

You also have two meters when you have solar panels but they aren't
wired up like that. Its inverter into isolator into meter into CU MCB.

In article ,
R D S writes:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:40:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

http://basecurve.co.uk/temp/DSC_0115.jpg

(the rogue cable to the right of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out of
one of the black junction boxes)

My guess is that they were separate, and the base of an old
sangamo time clock would suggest one of them might have been
a night rate for storage heaters. The connecting in series
may have simply been a prudent way to revert back to a
standard supply.

The service connection blocks look like they're floating
in mid-air. The neutral which has pulled out is extremely
dangerous.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:39:26 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


My guess is that they were separate, and the base of an old sangamo time
clock would suggest one of them might have been a night rate for storage
heaters. The connecting in series may have simply been a prudent way to
revert back to a standard supply.

Would it not make better sense to just omit one of them?

The service connection blocks look like they're floating in mid-air.

I wondered if that was normal, there's hardly any scope for improving
their position as there is only about 6 inch of cable for connecting what
was the fusebox (now the CU).

The
neutral which has pulled out is extremely dangerous.

That fell out earlier today, was manipulating the cables out of the way
of the CU to get a breaker in, surprised by how easy it came detached.
It will be sorted soon.

In article ,
R D S writes:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:39:26 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


My guess is that they were separate, and the base of an old sangamo time
clock would suggest one of them might have been a night rate for storage
heaters. The connecting in series may have simply been a prudent way to
revert back to a standard supply.

Would it not make better sense to just omit one of them?

Yes, but if you have no service connection blocks or spare tails,
maybe you just use what's there. Also, if you don't know which is
going to be the meter afterwards, sticking both in the circuit
means you don;t have to bother finding out.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

R D S wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:40:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

http://basecurve.co.uk/temp/DSC_0115.jpg

(the rogue cable to the right of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out of
one of the black junction boxes)

Check your Bill, it should state the serial no of the meter you are
being billed from.
The downstream meter has no seal, which "could" mean it is not official?
If you don't want the second meter you could replace it with a henley
block and save any confusion with meter readers in the future.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:33:23 +0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Check your Bill, it should state the serial no of the meter you are
being billed from.
The downstream meter has no seal, which "could" mean it is not official?
If you don't want the second meter you could replace it with a henley
block and save any confusion with meter readers in the future.

Not had a bill yet but i'll be phoning the elecricity company and asking
for the meter number.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:40:37 +0000, ARW wrote:

R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Post a photo

http://basecurve.co.uk/temp/DSC_0115.jpg

(the rogue cable to the right of the fuse/switch to the flat fell out of
one of the black junction boxes)



Dunno about the two meters, testing maybe? But if the lose wire came out of
the black junction box below it id say someone has been bypassing the
meters.

Mike

Sounds like somebody is trying to bill the other body, so to speak, and then
they put it back wrong.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"R D S" wrote in message
...
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection the
tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is split
from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

I've occasionally come across meters where meter A measures
all the consumption, then meter B measures part of the
consumption, so "flat A"'s consumption is meter A minus
meter B, but I can't think of any use for two inline meters.

As mentioned, photo wopuld be useful.

jgh

As mentioned, photo would be useful.

Seen photo. Yes, that definitely looks odd, particularly
those floating connectors. What I'd do is feed the tails
into a proper belko-type fixed connector and feed new
tails to the two CUs ... but there's no isolator, so I'd
(ahem) arrange for the supply fuse to be removed (ahem)
and feed the tail into a two-pole isolator and use that
as a fixed connection point to feed on to the two CUs.

===METER===METER===(insert 2P SW here)=====CU1
\====CU2

jgh

"R D S" wrote in message
...
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection the
tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is split
from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

Assuming both the meters are the suppliers
It looks to me that someone has been buggering about.
Tr wires from the cutout (where the incoming cable comes to) should go to
the two black link boxes.
The two meters should both be connected to the link boxes.

OR

Both meters should be wired to the cutout directly.
The two left hand terminals on the meter are incoming, the two right hand
termilals are outgoing.
In which case the link boxes are to do with the wiring system.

So, meter terminals, left to right:-
Incoming live, incoming neutral, outgoing neutral, outgoing live.
The neutrals are actually solidly linked together inside the meter.

It's slightly possible that a "check" meter has been fitted, ie someone
suspected the accuracy of their meter and another was fitted in series to
see if it was reading OK.


There may have beens some sort of off peak electricity system/heating in the
past I see there is a times switch.
This is normally all done with a single special electric meter these days.

It needs sorting out by a competent person, all looks a bit dodgy.

On Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:02:38 UTC, R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection the
tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is split
from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

It cannot. Fiddling with meter wiring by anyone except an agent of the electricity supply system is dangerous and should be both illegal and against the terms of supply. I have had no professional connection with consumer electricity supply, so I cannot quote chapter and verse : ISTR no more than something about the 15th Edition of the Regulations having been superseded (and that may be some other Regulations entirely).

You must report this to your electricity supplier at the earliest possible moment; and, I imagine, if they suspect that you have been doing anything more with what they consider to be their stuff than looking at it, they will be seriously displeased. "Tampering with the Evidence" might also be alleged, since it seems that a predecessor in the property may have been distinctly naughty.

However, you do need to be aware that, except in the earliest days, electricity metering has been of power and not of current. With two meters, the voltage connections should be *effectively* more-or-less in parallel, the same company-side current connection goes, not necessarily directly, to both meters, and the shop and flat supplies should come entirely independently, one from each meter. But that does not necessarily mean that it must *look* like that.

I do not know whether the power dissipated in the meter is itself metered, so I do not know whether the voltage connection (within?) the meter is to the company side or the consumer side.

See Belloc, H. : http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/lord-finchley/, even if a heptagrammaton therein does not apply to you.

--
SL

On Saturday, 15 February 2014 19:58:49 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:02:38 UTC, R D S wrote:

Recently bought a shop with a flat above....
...

17th. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_7671 and its links.

--
SL

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:02:38 UTC, R D S wrote:
Recently bought a shop with a flat above....

2 meters in the cupboard, the supply is split by means of two black
junction boxes between the shop and the flat.

I had assumed that there was a meter each but upon closer inspection
the tails from one meter enter the other meter and then the feed is
split from the tails coming from the second meter.

I've also noted the reading and as i use electricity they are both
counting up by the same amount.

That can't be right, can it?

It cannot. Fiddling with meter wiring by anyone except an agent of the
electricity supply system is dangerous and should be both illegal and
against the terms of supply. I have had no professional connection with
consumer electricity supply, so I cannot quote chapter and verse : ISTR
no more than something about the 15th Edition of the Regulations having
been superseded (and that may be some other Regulations entirely).

It's now the 17th Edition - also known as BS7671:2008. But, there;s
nothing about metering there,

--
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