I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom, however the most convenient point to connect it to is the kitchen ring main which has several sockets In the wall directly behind the proposed position of the shaver socket. Is this permissible?

richard

In article ,
Tricky Dicky writes:
I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom, however the most convenient point to connect it to is the kitchen ring main which has several sockets In the wall directly behind the proposed position of the shaver socket. Is this permissible?

You could always used a fused connection unit.

10+ years ago, I asked MK if their isolating shaver socket could
be connected directly to a 16A circuit and they said that was OK.
You could check with the manufacturer if they are OK to connect
to a 32A circuit, but this is much less likely.

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply. The 14th Ed regs
required a 3A fuse, but the rating of this fuse isn't specified in
the current regs anymore.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thanks Andrew,

I am proposing to connect it an existing FCU in the wall behind which does not seem connected to anything. It is more to do with the practice of putting kitchens on their own ring main like we have. Is it practice or required and does it mean that things outside the kitchen/utility area are allowed or not?

Richard

"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Andrew,

I am proposing to connect it an existing FCU in the wall behind which does
not seem connected to anything. It is more to do with the practice of
putting kitchens on their own ring main like we have. Is it practice or
required and does it mean that things outside the kitchen/utility area are
allowed or not?


You can supply the shaver socket from a FCU in the kitchen.


This is a new electrical circuit into a bathroom and MUST have RCD
protection. This new circuit will also need supplementary bonding to the
other electrical circuits in the bathroom unless ALL the electrical circuits
in the bathroom already have RCD protection.

--
Adam

Andy

I have looked at the installation notes for the isolating shaver supply and have not come across such a restriction?

Andrew & Adam thanks for your useful advice.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote:

I have looked at the installation notes for the isolating shaver
supply and have not come across such a restriction?

It's in the PDF.

https://www.mkelectric.com/Documents/English/EN%20MK%20Technical%20Specifications/Wiring%20Devices/Logic%20Plus/Shaver%20Supply%20Units%20All.pdf

They seem to do one in the "Edge" range that is toothbrush-compatible,
but not the "Logic Plus" range, seems it's down to not having continuous
use rating.

http://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/edge/Shaversupplyunits/Pages/K14709.aspx

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:18:44 -0000, ARW wrote:

"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Andrew,

I am proposing to connect it an existing FCU in the wall behind which does
not seem connected to anything. It is more to do with the practice of
putting kitchens on their own ring main like we have. Is it practice or
required and does it mean that things outside the kitchen/utility area are
allowed or not?


You can supply the shaver socket from a FCU in the kitchen.


This is a new electrical circuit into a bathroom and MUST have RCD
protection. This new circuit will also need supplementary bonding to the
other electrical circuits in the bathroom unless ALL the electrical circuits
in the bathroom already have RCD protection.

Most houses have RCD at the consumer unit. If not you're not making things any worse than they already are.

--
If Russia invaded Turkey from behind, would Greece help?

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:18:44 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
Thanks Andrew,

I am proposing to connect it an existing FCU in the wall behind which
does
not seem connected to anything. It is more to do with the practice of
putting kitchens on their own ring main like we have. Is it practice or
required and does it mean that things outside the kitchen/utility area
are
allowed or not?


You can supply the shaver socket from a FCU in the kitchen.


This is a new electrical circuit into a bathroom and MUST have RCD
protection. This new circuit will also need supplementary bonding to the
other electrical circuits in the bathroom unless ALL the electrical
circuits
in the bathroom already have RCD protection.

Most houses have RCD at the consumer unit.

Sure about that?


--
Adam

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Tricky Dicky writes:

I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply.

Any idea why the MK isolating one states "This product is not suitable
for rechargeable toothbrushes"?

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Tricky Dicky writes:

I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply.

Any idea why the MK isolating one states "This product is not suitable
for rechargeable toothbrushes"?

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on 120V.
Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on
120V. Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time
something is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the
transformer primary), which is probably more than the charger will
draw most of the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.


Blimey! I have been using a Legrand shaver socket (with transformer) for
many years (1988) with toothbrushes and shavers. I take the point about
the shutter switch. If I listen carefully I can hear the hum. How does
"above normal mains voltage" happen?

--

DerbyBorn

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on
120V.
Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.


Blimey! I have been using a Legrand shaver socket (with transformer) for
many years (1988) with toothbrushes and shavers. I take the point about
the shutter switch. If I listen carefully I can hear the hum.
How does "above normal mains voltage" happen?

--

DerbyBorn

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:41:43 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:


The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on
120V.
Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.


Blimey! I have been using a Legrand shaver socket (with transformer) for
many years (1988) with toothbrushes and shavers. I take the point about
the shutter switch. If I listen carefully I can hear the hum.
How does "above normal mains voltage" happen?

Inherent poor regulation of the small transformer.

I doubt if many appliances will actually be hurt, and I imagine they
are designed to cope with the over voltage even if the highest figure
can't be
--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:54:52 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Tricky Dicky writes:

I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply.

Any idea why the MK isolating one states "This product is not suitable
for rechargeable toothbrushes"?

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on 120V.
Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.

Only if you have a 120V toothbrush, why would you?

--
Stress is the conflict which occurs when your mind prevents your body from beating the living daylights out of whoever got in your way.

In message , at 18:48:41 on Tue, 31 Dec 2013,
Uncle Peter remarked:
Any idea why the MK isolating one states "This product is not suitable
for rechargeable toothbrushes"?

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on 120V.

110v, surely?

Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.

Only if you have a 120V toothbrush, why would you?

I've just measured my shaver socket in the bathroom and it's giving out
274v [or 128v], which doesn't change if I plug in an unloaded toothbrush
charger (which is rated at 220-240v, 1W).

Mains voltage here this morning is 242
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:54:52 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Tricky Dicky writes:

I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply.

Any idea why the MK isolating one states "This product is not suitable
for rechargeable toothbrushes"?

The transformer regulation isn't good, and at very low current draw,
the output is well above normal mains voltage. Chargers have very low
current draw, and a "toothbrush" is not necessarily designed to be
run from such a "shavers only" socket (whereas shaver chargers are).
Plug it in the 120V side if it will go in, and is rated to run on 120V.
Also, the transformer will probably waste 1-2W all the time something
is plugged in (the shutter on the socket also switches the transformer
primary), which is probably more than the charger will draw most of
the time.

This is not specific to the MK one - applies to all isolating
transformer shaver sockets.


Just tried mine, a German made one intergrated into a striplight

transformer output off load 240v
raw mains 245v (it hadly ever varies
CBA measuring it on load but I would guess 230-235 ish

Why can't they all be designed to output on the low side?

--
Graham.


%Profound_observation%

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:
In article ,
Tricky Dicky writes:
I want to install a shaver socket in the bathroom, however the most convenient point to connect it to is the kitchen ring main which has several sockets In the wall directly behind the proposed position of the shaver socket. Is this permissible?

You could always used a fused connection unit.

10+ years ago, I asked MK if their isolating shaver socket could
be connected directly to a 16A circuit and they said that was OK.
You could check with the manufacturer if they are OK to connect
to a 32A circuit, but this is much less likely.

If it's not an isolating socket (which has inherent current limiting
built in), then you must use a fuse in the supply. The 14th Ed regs
required a 3A fuse, but the rating of this fuse isn't specified in
the current regs anymore.

Sorry, I misread your bathroom as bedroom.
You have to use an isolating transformer version in a bathroom.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]